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Old 17-08-2008, 12:14
~*~Jess~*~
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Too much baggage for my liking. As soon as they play the whole sob story card I end up with a rather irrational dislike for whoever it is. She was ok, but not amazing...
I agree. Plus she sounded like an impressionist - I thought the judges didn't like that. Could have been Wino if I closed my eyes.
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:21
Reality Sucks
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I agree. Plus she sounded like an impressionist - I thought the judges didn't like that. Could have been Wino if I closed my eyes.
That's what I thought - I was waiting for one of them to say something but TBF she does have a terrific voice. I think she'll come into her own once she gets through to bootcamp and has to sing something other than Amy.

As far as her past is concerned I say good luck to the girl - she's trying to make something of her life. We all make mistakes especially when we're young. I know I have .
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:37
nathanbrazil
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Oh so she should be denied success because of drug use in her past.
Who said that? Not me. What I suggested, was that given her past, the kind of success which leads to a world where vast amounts of money and drugs are commonplace, might not be the best route.

Btw there is no such thing as an addictive personality its a myth everyone has addictions just some are worse for you than others.
Clinical psychology has long recognised that some people have addictive personalities, and are therefore more susceptible to harmful addictions.

Hopefully, this girl - who does have vocal talent, personality, and a nice look - can overcome her past. But, actually getting a custodial sentence for drug related activity isn't a simple mistake, it's a lifestyle choice. As was having 5 kids so young. After the first one, she must've realised what was causing pregnancy.
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:41
Tigerpaws
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Who said that? Not me. What I suggested, was that given her past, the kind of success which leads to a world where vast amounts of money and drugs are commonplace, might not be the best route.



Clinical psychology has long recognised that some people have addictive personalities, and are therefore more susceptible to harmful addictions.

Hopefully, this girl - who does have vocal talent, personality, and a nice look - can overcome her past. But, actually getting a custodial sentence for drug related activity isn't a simple mistake, it's a lifestyle choice. As was having 5 kids so young. After the first one, she must've realised what was causing pregnancy.
Thats not the case that clinical psychology recognises addictive personalities - there is no research to support the statement that anyone is more genetically inclined towards addictions than any other - it is a myth and a term often used to explain behaviour.
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:49
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Thats not the case that clinical psychology recognises addictive personalities - there is no research to support the statement that anyone is more genetically inclined towards addictions than any other - it is a myth and a term often used to explain behaviour.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As for my other comments on Rachel, I'm keen to read your response.
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:53
TheDirector
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She did a good impression of Amy Winehouse. We'll see.
Essentially Amy Winehouse mimics when singing. She sings in a stylised way, in a contrived way, influenced by the american singers she liked. Clearly, the accent and the tone are not natural, and thats not a problem - Amy does what she does brilliantly. But ultimately, its a mimic, which I suppose applies to many singers, apart from those who sing in their own accent.

So it makes no sense to say that the lass last night was doing an impression, unless you put into the context of any english singer, including AMy Winehouse, also doing impressions.
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Old 17-08-2008, 12:55
Tigerpaws
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As for my other comments on Rachel, I'm keen to read your response.
Ok well in regards to your original post.
You have a point she may be at risk if successful however also the opposite could be true shes been there and done that so knows the pitfalls of a drug lifestyle more than most she also has her children so may have more reasons than many to not follow that path.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:03
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I just hope Rachel realises that she is already a winner. It takes real courage and humility to bare your soul on TV , particularly on a show like X-Factor which will milk it for everything. Rachel admits to making mistakes, who hasn't, she genuinely appears to have learned from those mistakes and appears to have a caring , loving relationship with her daughter ( from the little we saw last night ).

I just hope she realises that turning away from the drugs, sorting out her life and building a strong family relationship is what makes her a winner. She shouldn't judge her sense of worth by how far she goes in the contest...she should consider how far she has travelled to her new life, that is what is important.

Having said all that I thought she was easily the best singer on last nights show, but more importantly I thought she was the best person.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:09
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It was a tone perfect impersonation of Amy Winehouse. Not easy, and way better than I could muster, but I'd like to see her sing something in her own style next time.

P.S. With respect, f#ck the sob story. Not a relevant as her voice.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:25
kyri
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I think she was brilliant.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:30
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I just hope Rachel realises that she is already a winner. It takes real courage and humility to bare your soul on TV , particularly on a show like X-Factor which will milk it for everything. Rachel admits to making mistakes, who hasn't, she genuinely appears to have learned from those mistakes and appears to have a caring , loving relationship with her daughter ( from the little we saw last night ).

I just hope she realises that turning away from the drugs, sorting out her life and building a strong family relationship is what makes her a winner. She shouldn't judge her sense of worth by how far she goes in the contest...she should consider how far she has travelled to her new life, that is what is important.

Having said all that I thought she was easily the best singer on last nights show, but more importantly I thought she was the best person.
what? She was only on the show for about 3 minutes, how on earth are people deciding she has "genuinely learned from her mistakes" and has "totally sorted out her life" from so little evidence. Just because the X-factor editors had Dermott read "Rachel hopes that being on X-Factor will wipe the slate clean" (or something like that) everyone's decided that she's definitely good as gold now?

People really do believe everything that TV wants them to believe, don't they.

I'm not saying that she hasn't sorted her life out, just that I find the unending praise for her after just a few minutes' appeance on TV quite amazing. It's all a bit premature. If she'd had three minutes on Jeremy Kyle everyone would be laying in to her saying "a leopard can't change it's spots", "she'll go back", etc. I'll reserve judgement until we know a lot more about her.

The press will still destroy her I reckon. If she had truly put her murky past behind her, you'd think she'd want to move on and not mention it at all, not use it as a sob story, although with the amount of people talking about her now you can easily see why going for the sob story was so tempting. Revealing her murky past now won't stop the press digging, it just gives them a head start. Certain newspapers won't like the apparent message that you can be a skanky druggy criminal and lose your kids but make it all OK if you wipe the slate clean with an appearance on X-factor - it's not a great message to send to the youth is it? "Don't worry kids - have as much underage sex, drugs and rock and roll as you want, just go on X-Factor afterwards to make it all go away". As if X-Factor didn't already have enough freaks and losers without encouraging more people to trash their lives.

If she has turned her life around then I'd say that going on X-Factor is the *worst* thing she could do, once the press get going. It wouldn't surprise me if, she gets a few rounds in to the series, goes to the odd showbiz party, where the newspapers deliberately try to catch her out, offering her coke when she's drunk etc and deliberately trying to make her into the public successor to the Doherty/Winehouse tragedy crown. If that does happen then the X-Factor producers will have an awful lot to answer for.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:34
nathanbrazil
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You have a point she may be at risk if successful however also the opposite could be true shes been there and done that so knows the pitfalls of a drug lifestyle more than most she also has her children so may have more reasons than many to not follow that path.
I'm all for people getting a second chance, and making the most of their talent. I just hope that, if she does do well, she doesn't turn into Whitney Houston.
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Old 17-08-2008, 13:37
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She was good, but it's funny how the minute Amy starts really blowing up a ton of people come forward with similar voices. It's like once something becomes a proven success, everyone tries to cash in on it, but then it starts losing it's uniqueness.

Technically her singing is not really all that impressive, and I didn't hear any individuality. So I wouldn't really call her brilliant yet. I'll need to see more of what she can do first.
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Old 17-08-2008, 16:55
utoia2007
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I didn't think she was that special - good yes but I hope she's not getting through because she has a big sob story.

But looks like her friends and family might be out in force already in this forum making sure we know her name!

I'll reserve my opinion until we've seen more of the runners and riders.
So anyone who likes her has got to be her friends and family?

Im certainly not, and if you look on the appreciation thread.. most posters havent just signed up to DS
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:03
utoia2007
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Essentially Amy Winehouse mimics when singing. She sings in a stylised way, in a contrived way, influenced by the american singers she liked. Clearly, the accent and the tone are not natural, and thats not a problem - Amy does what she does brilliantly. But ultimately, its a mimic, which I suppose applies to many singers, apart from those who sing in their own accent.

So it makes no sense to say that the lass last night was doing an impression, unless you put into the context of any english singer, including AMy Winehouse, also doing impressions.
Exactly my point thankyou.

Amy winehouse mimics black soul/ jazz singers. As does duffy. I heard duffys voice when she was younger she didnt have this edge that she does now at all. However if they are able to do that and sound amazing- which they do, fair play to them!

To me rachels voice sounds more natural than amys, she has the type of voice you could expect to come from a black female.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:03
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She was good, but it's funny how the minute Amy starts really blowing up a ton of people come forward with similar voices. It's like once something becomes a proven success, everyone tries to cash in on it, but then it starts losing it's uniqueness.

Technically her singing is not really all that impressive, and I didn't hear any individuality. So I wouldn't really call her brilliant yet. I'll need to see more of what she can do first.

Or maybe it took Amy to blow up for the industry to start giving girls with voices like theirs a chance? Because theres a ton of them...
Works both ways.

For the record i wanna hear more of rachels voice voice before i makes up mi mind on her.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:31
Ravane
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Or maybe it took Amy to blow up for the industry to start giving girls with voices like theirs a chance? Because theres a ton of them...
Works both ways.

For the record i wanna hear more of rachels voice voice before i makes up mi mind on her.
But then what's the point? A large part of Amy's appeal is that she sounds different and unique compared to most other mainstream acts. If we have tons of girls with similar voices then people will just get bored and find another fad to move on to.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:38
utoia2007
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No one can sound truly unique- theres always others out there that sound similar. Theres only so many sounds a voice can take on. The point is shes more unique compared to most singers out there.

People overuse the word 'unique' anyway.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:39
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Exactly my point thankyou.

Amy winehouse mimics black soul/ jazz singers. As does duffy. I heard duffys voice when she was younger she didnt have this edge that she does now at all. However if they are able to do that and sound amazing- which they do, fair play to them!

To me rachels voice sounds more natural than amys, she has the type of voice you could expect to come from a black female.
She obviously had a good voice and range, she was mimmicking the "style" of song she was singing, even with all the little winehouse bells and whistles. I suggest that before people proclaim her the next best thing it'd be good to see if she can do anything besides that.

All power to her for improving her life, but there is absolutely no chance of her winning. Obviously the finalists are carefully selected on the basis of what future potential she has to the record company and with 5 kids, drugs convictions and whatever else could come out it would be like them scoring an own goal before the match had started. ITV has shareholders to answer to, the reputation of the channel rests on shows like X-Factor and they want to make as much from it as they can - how could they market XF dance mats to 9 year olds based on a show won by an ex-drug addict. Their marketing department would have a fit, lol.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:43
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Amy Winehouse , excellent singer who sadly has gone off the rails once famous & become a terrible caricature & a terrible role model.
Rachel, excellent singer who went off the rails at an early age, has obviously had a hard life & is now trying to turn things around & if successful would be a wonderful role model (hopefully).
I know which one I prefer.
I hope Rachel does well & lives up to my expectations.
Based on that initial snippet I prefer her voice to Wino's actually, & while similar I thought she had her own idiosyncratic quality to it, the phrasing was definitely similar, but still had a personal touch.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:50
utoia2007
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She obviously had a good voice and range, she was mimmicking the "style" of song she was singing, even with all the little winehouse bells and whistles. I suggest that before people proclaim her the next best thing it'd be good to see if she can do anything besides that.

All power to her for improving her life, but there is absolutely no chance of her winning. Obviously the finalists are carefully selected on the basis of what future potential she has to the record company and with 5 kids, drugs convictions and whatever else could come out it would be like them scoring an own goal before the match had started. ITV has shareholders to answer to, the reputation of the channel rests on shows like X-Factor and they want to make as much from it as they can - how could they market XF dance mats to 9 year olds based on a show won by an ex-drug addict. Their marketing department would have a fit, lol.
Yes we need to hear sing other songs to determine her voice away from winehouses- otherwise it is hard to do so. Apparently she blew everyone away in bootcamp singing 'chasing cars' so that should be interesting.

I dont think she will win. But her drug problems are BEHIND her, and its quite courageous that she is willing to go on national tv to persue her dream even with this stigma hanging over her, people should applaud her for sorting her life out not penalize her because she made bad decisions which she has already paid the price for. Shes only 26 she deserves a second chance imo. Remember she was born in to this environment, not everyone is as fortunate.

And it never stopped peoples buying into amy winehouse since shes the highest selling artist of the past few years, even though she is a current mess and doesnt make much of an effort to change.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:52
utoia2007
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Amy Winehouse , excellent singer who sadly has gone off the rails once famous & become a terrible caricature & a terrible role model.
Rachel, excellent singer who went off the rails at an early age, has obviously had a hard life & is now trying to turn things around & if successful would be a wonderful role model (hopefully).
I know which one I prefer.
I hope Rachel does well & lives up to my expectations.
Based on that initial snippet I prefer her voice to Wino's actually, & while similar I thought she had her own idiosyncratic quality to it, the phrasing was definitely similar, but still had a personal touch.
I agree, its good motivation for people who want to get out of these problems and change their life round.
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Old 17-08-2008, 17:55
rebel yell
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But then what's the point? A large part of Amy's appeal is that she sounds different and unique compared to most other mainstream acts. If we have tons of girls with similar voices then people will just get bored and find another fad to move on to.

Well then it sucks for Amy because evidently she is not 'unique' . As many others have said in this thread, Amy already mimics her style from other black singers. IMO the only reason Amy is as successful as she is because she is white and sounds 'black'.

Bring on the next fad i say.
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Old 17-08-2008, 18:04
Ravane
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Well then it sucks for Amy because evidently she is not 'unique' . As many others have said in this thread, Amy already mimics her style from other black singers. IMO the only reason Amy is as successful as she is because she is white and sounds 'black'.

Bring on the next fad i say.
That's fair enough, but at the end of the day when Amy came onto the scene there was no other successful mainstream artist with that kind of sound. So it didn't really matter which old black soul singers she was mimicking, because her style was fresh in current mainstream music.

If Amy was an artist from 10 years ago then it wouldn't be a problem, but considering that she's at the height of her fame right now, for someone like Rachel to come along with the exact same kind of style and voice... it's just a bit redundant. But as I said in my first post I'll need to see more of her first, because it's not really fair to judge based on one song. She hasn't really had a chance to show her individuality.
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Old 17-08-2008, 19:20
rebel yell
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That's fair enough, but at the end of the day when Amy came onto the scene there was no other successful mainstream artist with that kind of sound. So it didn't really matter which old black soul singers she was mimicking, because her style was fresh in current mainstream music.

If Amy was an artist from 10 years ago then it wouldn't be a problem, but considering that she's at the height of her fame right now, for someone like Rachel to come along with the exact same kind of style and voice... it's just a bit redundant. But as I said in my first post I'll need to see more of her first, because it's not really fair to judge based on one song. She hasn't really had a chance to show her individuality.

Gahh i know what i want to say to this post but the words arent coming out, bah!

Im sure there are alot of girls who have similar voices to Amy who weren't given a chance in the industry. I think it needed for Amy Winehouse to become successful before record industries would take chances with girls with similar voices. I dont think Rachel has just 'come along' as you put it, Shes obviously always had that singing style, im guessing she probably never auditioned because she didnt think the judges would go for her type o voice but seeing as Amy Winehouse is so revered in the charts, why not now, you knowww?

Hope i make sense.
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