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Old 18-08-2008, 11:18
GonzoTheGreat
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Anyway, I think Rachel sings a lot better than Winehouse. I've never seen Winehouse hit a clear tone like Rachel and she doesn't appear to have the range that Rachel has. I am personally disappointed with the comparisons people make simply because she sang in a jazzy style and did a WInehouse song because this girl is a better singer.
I don't think you can blame people for making comparisons. Yes she sang in a Jazzy style but she also picked an actual WInehouse song and copied it note for note. It's not that she just sounded like her, she chose one of her songs. We've heard one song right now, you can't really tell if this girl is a better singer yet.
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Old 18-08-2008, 11:42
coda
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Curious that someone can say this girl is a better singer than Amy Winehouse based on singing half a song at an audition. Talk about making a snap judgement....

Amy on record is incredibly moving and powerful.

Anyway - Rachel. Let's hear her sing a non-Amy composition.
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Old 18-08-2008, 12:10
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Curious that someone can say this girl is a better singer than Amy Winehouse based on singing half a song at an audition. Talk about making a snap judgement....

Amy on record is incredibly moving and powerful.

Anyway - Rachel. Let's hear her sing a non-Amy composition.
Apparently she blew people away with Chasing Cars at the boot camp.

You say "on record" Amy is "incredibly" moving and powerful?

Upon which record is this and upon what basis? She's never done that for me. In my book is she's achieved anything it's been on the basis of...

Drugs - drunk - publicity - album sales

Repeat

Drugs - drunk - publicity - album sales

If I need to see if somebody is better than Amy Winehouse, all I need to do is hear them sing.
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Old 18-08-2008, 12:11
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I don't think you can blame people for making comparisons. Yes she sang in a Jazzy style but she also picked an actual WInehouse song and copied it note for note. It's not that she just sounded like her, she chose one of her songs. We've heard one song right now, you can't really tell if this girl is a better singer yet.
I think you can and I don't think she sounded like Amy at all. IN fact she has a better voice. She had more control than Amy and I have to repeat, if you don't copy a song note for note, how do you copy it? If it's not note for note it's a completely different song.

People change songs in a different octave yes but to change notes? Do you guys mean she should have tried it in a different pitch?
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Old 18-08-2008, 12:35
proudtbpc
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Amy winehouse has a 'black voice', so amy winehouse could be said to be copying the black soul Motown women.

It seems that voice is her 'real voice', dont see why she should change it too sound different, IMO her voice sounds different to winehouse anyway. She just needs to sing different songs, so its more obvious.
Black women can outsing white women in this country all day long, but still won't outsell them. A white woman who copies the "black" style of singing will always do better commercially in this country, and we all know why that is. There are numerous incidences of black artists in this country who have had outstanding voices/song writing abilities but got nowhere with the record companies in this country (Estelle anyone?).

It makes me truly sick but is indicative of the entire culture in this country.
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Old 18-08-2008, 12:42
proudtbpc
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Who cares about her background and how many children she has....She's got something called talent..Aye she's not polished shes a bit of a rough diamond but you can-not deny her singing!
At least she sings with real soul due to her tragic experiences unlike the pampered middle class life of Winehouse who has had to contrive a "tragic" life to fit her singing style.
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Old 18-08-2008, 12:46
proudtbpc
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You should not judge a singer on their background, judge them based on their voice.

Rachel had no choice to tell her story, as it would have been used against her by the tabloids.

She was not impersonating Amy, she does not need to, if you listen to her you will hear she sound nothing like Amy, she has her own indivduality.

She had to sing a song know to the judges, and that one obviously suits her type of voice.
Hi maroonshark, I see you're on here as well as the BB forum. Correct comment as usual. If anything, it is Winehouse who has stolen her style from numerous black soul/jazz singers like Billie Holiday and Bessie Smith.
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Old 18-08-2008, 13:01
proudtbpc
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She was good, but it's funny how the minute Amy starts really blowing up a ton of people come forward with similar voices. It's like once something becomes a proven success, everyone tries to cash in on it, but then it starts losing it's uniqueness.

Technically her singing is not really all that impressive, and I didn't hear any individuality. So I wouldn't really call her brilliant yet. I'll need to see more of what she can do first.

There are loads of black singers who have always had "Winehouse" voices - they were the originals. Incredible that you believe such a thing.
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Old 18-08-2008, 13:15
Evilredzebra
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Not a bad singer, certainly the best of the night but absolutely nobody else stood out in any way.

Totally put off by the sob story though and she was trying far too much to sound like Winehouse.
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Old 18-08-2008, 13:40
coda
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If anything, it is Winehouse who has stolen her style from numerous black soul/jazz singers like Billie Holiday and Bessie Smith.
Amy really doesn't sound like those artists. Her vocal style is based more on Dinah Washington and Madeline Bell. However - and I've said this before - there's credit in taking an old style of music and making it contemporary. Pop artists have been influenced by older artists for decades (Cliff/Elvis, Beatles/Little Richard, Oasis/Beatles, Mika/Queen). As I recall, the last XF winner was imitating Michael Buble.

This Rachel is copying Amy hook line and sinker. Admitedly a very good impersonation. Perhaps she should have gone on Stars In Their Eyes...
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Old 18-08-2008, 13:52
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There are loads of black singers who have always had "Winehouse" voices - they were the originals. Incredible that you believe such a thing.
Who, care to name some? and please don't come out with Bessie Smith and Billie Holliday because she sounds nothing like them, or any other black singer I can think of today.

If you read Billie Holliday's biography she was influenced by Bessie Smith and If you read Frank Sinatra's Biography you'll find he was also influenced by Billie Holliday, Bessie Smith and Bing Crosby.

There is a difference between influence and imitation though some people seem to be blind to this concept.
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Old 18-08-2008, 13:58
Reality Sucks
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Apparently she blew people away with Chasing Cars at the boot camp.

You say "on record" Amy is "incredibly" moving and powerful?

Upon which record is this and upon what basis? She's never done that for me. In my book is she's achieved anything it's been on the basis of...

Drugs - drunk - publicity - album sales

Repeat

Drugs - drunk - publicity - album sales

If I need to see if somebody is better than Amy Winehouse, all I need to do is hear them sing.
She is an amazing singer, arguably the best this country has ever produced. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Simple.

Listen to Love is a Losing Game and tell me she doesn't have talent. (she also wrote this song) for my money it's up there with the best of the classic blues songs from the 30's and 40s

She's made it and continues to have fans in spite of her lifestyle, not because of it.
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Old 19-08-2008, 10:39
utoia2007
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Black women can outsing white women in this country all day long, but still won't outsell them. A white woman who copies the "black" style of singing will always do better commercially in this country, and we all know why that is. There are numerous incidences of black artists in this country who have had outstanding voices/song writing abilities but got nowhere with the record companies in this country (Estelle anyone?).

It makes me truly sick but is indicative of the entire culture in this country.
Its completely true what your saying. Amy winehouse copies american black singers. Rachel has a richer tone and sounds more natural imo probable becuase she is a black women, but wont sell as much as winehouse coz shes not white. However i dont think estelle has a great voice, but she is a good example of what its like now.
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Old 19-08-2008, 13:55
GonzoTheGreat
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I think you can and I don't think she sounded like Amy at all. IN fact she has a better voice. She had more control than Amy and I have to repeat, if you don't copy a song note for note, how do you copy it? If it's not note for note it's a completely different song.

People change songs in a different octave yes but to change notes? Do you guys mean she should have tried it in a different pitch?
They can put their own spin on the songs, their own take - it was what people like Shayne and Leona were applauded for was it not. This girl just copied note for note. I doubt you could have that informed judgement on her voice control after hearing her for 1 minute,we shall see tho.
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Old 19-08-2008, 13:58
Reality Sucks
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Its completely true what your saying. Amy winehouse copies american black singers. Rachel has a richer tone and sounds more natural imo probable becuase she is a black women, but wont sell as much as winehouse coz shes not white. However i dont think estelle has a great voice, but she is a good example of what its like now.


You don't think Estelle has a great voice, but think she is a victim of prejudice? Can you not see what a contradiction that statement is?

Estelle has an OK voice which is similar to many other singers in her genre. She is not outstanding enough to take the world by storm as Amy has done, though she is successful by most people's standards.

Rachel is obviously a huge Amy Winehouse fan and by rubbishing Amy, people are actually rubbishing Rachel for imitating an imitator.
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Old 19-08-2008, 14:09
Ravane
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There are loads of black singers who have always had "Winehouse" voices - they were the originals. Incredible that you believe such a thing.
I never denied that. It doesn't matter either way. I'm talking purely about current mainstream music.
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Old 19-08-2008, 15:05
dogsbody70
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I am no expert but something about her voice did something to me.

I wish her the very best.
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Old 19-08-2008, 15:57
utoia2007
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You don't think Estelle has a great voice, but think she is a victim of prejudice? Can you not see what a contradiction that statement is?

Estelle has an OK voice which is similar to many other singers in her genre. She is not outstanding enough to take the world by storm as Amy has done, though she is successful by most people's standards.

Rachel is obviously a huge Amy Winehouse fan and by rubbishing Amy, people are actually rubbishing Rachel for imitating an imitator.
Contradiction? where?

I said, i dont think estelle has a great voice, shes 'average', but she wasn't able to make it as an 'artist' in the UK, whereas if she was white she would probably have got more recognition. Either way I dont think she would of blown anyone away, her music is hardly ground breaking and neither is her voice. So she was probably a bad example to use.

Whos rubbishing amy winehouse? some people are just saying that from that short clip of her signing she sounded better than winehouse. For me, i will have to hear more of her and im not about to say shes a better singer, but she certainly sounded better than winehouse in her current train wreck form.

Also in terms of her 'imitating' winehouse, she did sound very similar.. I put this down to her singing a winehouse song. If she was given other material to sing i think the difference in vocal tone will become more apparent.

To have such a voice as this is still very rare imo, and its still alot different to the hundreds of other singers you hear all the time, such as that other contestant 'alexandra'.

As has already been mentioned, winehouse sounds similar to etta james and Dinah Washington who she obviously takes influences from, she sings in a contrived manner. On lower notes you can hear her actual cockney voice come out- so i dont believe the tone she sings in is completely natural. Rachel may also have these influences, her speaking voice is VERY similar to winehouse, both cockney- so its not that surprising they sound alike imo.
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Old 19-08-2008, 17:57
Reality Sucks
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[quote=utoia2007;26777720]
Contradiction? where?

I said, i dont think estelle has a great voice, shes 'average', but she wasn't able to make it as an 'artist' in the UK, whereas if she was white she would probably have got more recognition. Either way I dont think she would of blown anyone away, her music is hardly ground breaking and neither is her voice. So she was probably a bad example to use.
She has made it in the UK. We've both know her and most people have heard of her. So the claim that she couldn't make it in the UK is false. The contradiction in your statement was that she isn't a great singer, but she hasn't made it in the UK because she is black, not because she isn't a great singer. Don't you think that being a great singer might help someone to have more success than someone who is mediocre?

Whos rubbishing amy winehouse? some people are just saying that from that short clip of her signing she sounded better than winehouse. For me, i will have to hear more of her and im not about to say shes a better singer, but she certainly sounded better than winehouse in her current train wreck form.
The people who are saying that Amy Winehouse copies black soul singers and has no originality.

The Rachel situation is similar to when David Cook performed Chris Cornell's arrangement of Billie Jean on American Idol -

Chris Cornell said "he followed my arrangement down to the T, including the most subtle vocal nuances. I think he did a great job at pulling it off"

I happen to like Rachel's voice but I don't want to hear her doing exact copies of Amy songs or else she may as well be a tribute act.
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Old 19-08-2008, 21:54
babeth
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^ It is a fact that Amy has copied black music. Without copying the black jazz/ R & B sound the present album would not exist in its present format at all. As for people like Duffy copying Amy-is a joke when she is not jazz and does not even have the contrive sound to be an imitation of Amy who copied past jazz/blues singers.

To be very honest if a black singer like Rachel produced an album like Amy's it would flop. Why? Simple, she is black and original.Today black and original does not market well. Am Being realistic here.

Babeth
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Old 19-08-2008, 22:11
dominicastar
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Plus winning would get her off benefits...we're all winners then!
OMGosh, some people are so harsh, I mean each to their own but no need to be so mean.

She's trying to better herself, and she has a talent, even if she had a different path in life like a great scientist or something, I would love her cause she has talent. You don't need to have the same reaction, but my point it lets focus on the talent man?! Why so mean to her? I don't get it
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Old 19-08-2008, 22:26
yocurio
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I thought she was amazing, distinctive voice and good personality. She needs to choose other songs so shes not compared to much with amy, but i think a distinctive voice is usually missing from the xfactor. Potential top 12 contestant.

Discuss.
I tend not to bother with the lives of those i listen too outside their music...

as such its her voice I like - it was great - and if they give her the right songs - that said i really think she can turn her life around - so yeppers win/win

I so hope she doesnt **** it up
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Old 19-08-2008, 22:58
Reality Sucks
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^ It is a fact that Amy has copied black music. Without copying the black jazz/ R & B sound the present album would not exist in its present format at all. As for people like Duffy copying Amy-is a joke when she is not jazz and does not even have the contrive sound to be an imitation of Amy who copied past jazz/blues singers.

To be very honest if a black singer like Rachel produced an album like Amy's it would flop. Why? Simple, she is black and original.Today black and original does not market well. Am Being realistic here.

Babeth
I repeat, for those who seem unable to accept the concept, that every single artist living or dead has been influenced by artists who have gone before.

To say that Rachel is original and Amy is not is laughable quite frankly.
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Old 19-08-2008, 23:17
babeth
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^ My argument is influences should not sound copied and contrived-thats all. Rachel sings like how many black women sing. Thats not saying that Amy cannot sing black music-she can with a difference which is watered down.

As I am into tones and sound. Listening to Rachel-although I would have to listen some more she has such a clear and natural tone to her voice. This is a refreshing change.

Again everyone has a diffferent response to music-its all in the senses. If I sing rock( which comes from influences of black music) and sound black I might sell more records-the argument might be am unique and different! Or am I?

Babeth
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Old 19-08-2008, 23:27
utoia2007
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When winehouse came out she was unique today in the mainstream charts, thats all that matters in the music industry- can they compete? do they stand out?. But is she truly unique, as in there isnt lots of black singers in america that sound like her? short answer is No, there are lots of black singers that have her sound, difference is they dont sell as well so people don't know about them. A white girl who sounds black will sell alot more records in mainstream music than a black girl singing the same music.

I would go as far as saying, no one is unique- the human voice can only have so many sounds, everyone sounds like someone else. This ties in with the taking influences debate. Theres just certain 'sounds' that you hear less than others, this is one of them.

Winehouse paved the way for other girls of a similar sound who have similar influences, imo doesnt mean they are a direct copy. Rachel could be copying winehouses note to note, but we should wait and see what else she does first.
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