It is a tricky question and would be really interesting to hear from people more expert than me! on the more subtle technical differences in terms of their dance abilities. I think there needs to be a balance between finding talented dancers who are capable of teaching a complete novice to execute entertaining routines and who will also engage the audience.

All my opinions would be from a very non-dance background! Just what looks right/wrong to me even if I don't know why!

In terms of teaching I prefer and admire the more patient pros, who take the time to figure out the celeb's strengths and weaknesses and how they learn. It's easy to get fristrated and shout or get fed-up, it's harder to re-think how you're teaching them and try a different approach until they get the step.

My favourite male pro is Matthew because he is a patient teacher and in terms of the pro performances he looks great (in my non-dancer's eyes) in both the latin and ballroom. I think he is elegant, graceful and fluid in his movements. I like his choreography for his celebs as well - the Tango with Alesha is my fave Strictly dance and also how he can go full out in the pro dances but 'dance down' with the celeb so as not to show them up and highlight what they can't do - there is no showboating I suppose for lack of a better word. Same applies to Nicole, I liked the laid-back, relaxed latin dances she choreographed for John as that was more his style.

After Matt, in the pro dances, my eye is drawn to Brendan as I really enjoy watching him in both ballroom and latin - possibly more ballroom. However, I don't really like the teaching style - although I can understand anyone getting fristrated with Fiona! - he doesn't seem to have the patience for a complete beginner and doesn't understand that what is easy for him may not be for her. Even when he did get a partner with talent in Kelly, he still out-danced her e.g. in the jive with that spin thing (technical term ) that he always does with Karen, just showed that Kelly couldn't do it.

I would say James and Ola are the weakest at ballroom but I really liked James' choreography for Gaby - particularly the QS. I much prefer Ian doing ballroom to latin, as he is such a graceful dancer and to me can look a bit messy in latin e.g. in the paso to Lee Mead, you could see the difference during the jive section when he was dancing beside the sharper Matthew.

I do like Darren and Lilia's choreography as they can put in tricks without them being the focus of the dance (probably didn't explain that very well!) whereas I don't really like Flavia's which can have too many tricks which can be all you concentrate on and it can be just about getting from one 'trick' to the, typified in her showdance. Can also find her a bit blank when she dances, in terms of her facial expression. There seems to be a scale with Karen at the extreme end then the likes of Lilia, Ola and Nicole in the middle and Flavia at the other extreme.

Can't stand Karen's gurning when she dances! Not a fan of her choreography either - the waltz with Brian was mis-judged on her part. Of course it was going to be funereal if you dance to that music!

All just my opinion - not meant to be inflammatory! and like I said haven't a clue about technique!

I agree it would be useful to hear the opinion of someone who knows a bit about dancing her because like everyone else I'm going on impressions and what the supposedly informed say without much knowledge of my own.

I think looking at it from a purely unbiased perspective Lilia stands out as the best - in terms of managing to turn unlikely people into good dancers and also establishing great rapport with them and tailoring routines to suit them rather than herself - for a latin dancers it's ironic she seems to get partners who are better at the ballroom apart from even more ironically Dom. Weirdly enough I see the fact that she managed to get him who had a complete inability to dance in time to the music as far through the competition as a great credit to her and they were never bottom of the leadership board. She can cheorograph strange hand movements at time though.

Darren also seems good at tailoring routines to different people too and I don't think anyone else would have been as good with Leticia.

Brendan is exciting but I agree that his teaching style is flawed and he can't really deal with the less talented and less motivated. He also relies too much on tricks and the creation of controversy. That said this year we saw how amazing what he can produce is with the right partner.

Anton is the opposite he has great rapport and patience with his partners perhaps too much in that he doesn't push them enough but his routines, particularly the latin ones, don't seem to be rated by people.

Erin is mostly very good at working to the strengths of the person she's with, coming up with good routines that suit them and providing they work hard establishing a good rapport with them. However she will always be remembered for the one time she got it badly wrong and put together the worst show dance ever for probably the most talented male celeb the show's ever seen.

I like Karen who can also be amazing and always produces something interesting but she will admit herself she can dance too much at the expense of her partner.

I think Matt Cutler is a talented choreographer and he's also a patient and supportive teacher however he's been lucky in getting a couple of talented and self-motivated partners. The one person as shy as himself he had didn't get beyond the first round and I'm not sure he'd have the determination to push someone who was lazy.

Cam's cheorography can be hit and miss - the James Martin tango rountine was great and I loved their paso too (more than Darren and Lilia's actually) but this year's paso was a bit odd and I'm afraid I agree with Len that with her paso with Ray she was mostly dancing round him while he posed. She has very good rapport with her partners though although if I'd been her I'd have got the acting coach in earlier. Which is another reason why I think Lilia is so exceptional that it occurred to her to do that with Matt Dawson. She always says she likes motivated people so I'm not sure how she would have coped with a lazy or under-confident person (perhaps those who know more about her earlier partnerships could shed some light on this).

Nicole has never really had someone who gave her a chance to shine so it's hard to tell what's she's capable of even with John I think a lot of problems stemmed from him not having the time to devote to the program perhaps what was needed to sort out his problems as a dancer. Her and John seemed to have a good working relationship though and his latin routines were good. I think the best glimpse we got of what she could do was the group James Bond dance last series though where she seemed like a very good teacher and choreographer.

Ian I think is very good at tailoring routines to suit his partners, getting on with them and coming up with good routines. Being the loftiest guy in the program he always gets very tall women which poses it's own problems - i.e he's never had a great jive. As someone pointed out to turn a ladette and a muscley athlete into great and elegant dancers who both made the final is a great feat and whatever you think of Penny's samba it was a great routine which revolved around her entirely which meant effectively he choreographed himself into a subordinate role which was pretty selfless of him really. He also seems to know how hard he can be on someone (in Denise's case he knew he could really push her as she could take it) and when that won't work (you never saw him try it with Penny). I'd like to see Ian win one year I think he deserves it.

The newer pros you have less to go on about how good they are and they have less experience about how to pitch dances to suit the people they are with and their experience level.

Vincent I think struggled with this in his first year where he seemed to get it in the neck for making his routines too complicated or too simple. Everyone who's had the privilege of being taught by him and Flav says that they are great teachers and he does seem to have a talent for explaining things to his partners well and having patience with them. I don't get the impression Stephanie was the easiest person to teach but he coped well - the qs routine showed her off pretty well and had it not being such a strong female field this year they would have got further in the competition.

Flavia didn't have much to work with last year and this year there were complications which I think that times helped and at times hindered. However I'm not sure that anyone else bar Lilia could have got as much out of Matt as she did - I lot of the pros would have found him an incredibly frustrating person to teach and just ended up shouting at him which wouldn't have worked. Sometimes perhaps she made things too hard and some of her choreography arguably didn't come off but I think she learned from V&L eviction over their 'too easy AS' that it's best to go for broke rather than play safe - the judges and public seem to respect you more. I think she has a real daredevil streak too when she dances which makes her really interesting - I can't see anyone else being quite as willing to take the risks she does physically with quite as much gusto.

James needs a understanding opposite to work with to really shine I think. We saw a lot more of what he capable of this year than last year in terms of putting together routines - all of which I think were good this year. Like Brendan though he proves he's not a good teacher for someone who isn't as determined and hard working as him - Georgina would have done much better with someone like Ian who she seemed to have a rapport and had a more enjoyable experience at least with Anton. Gaby perhaps was too similar to endear them to the voting public (although I think had her got her last year and had time to form a first impression with her the public might have thought better of him) - I think if he got a Leticia type who was hard working and determined but also had an obvious sense of fun and was someone he could encourage. The analysis of people's training footage that he did this year On ITT showed that he's got a very good and clear way of explaining things and his red button commentaries have always been interesting too and show a much more generous side to him that most people would expect and I think he's a very graceful dancer so he's someone I'd like to see do better.

I don't understand who people can criticise Ola as a choreographer when she manged to come up with interesting latin routines for a terrible latin dancer - the paso particularly springs to mind which although is mostly posturing sticks in your mind far more than much better dances and has a real energy to it. In fact she proved to be very good at designing routines that played to Kenny's strengths such as the lifts in the AS routine. Last year she we didn't get see much of what she could do as she made Spoony's cha cha cha too easy (probably an easy noob pro mistake) and then go eliminated as he got a dance that didn't suit him i.e the tango. He they stayed in we might have seen more interesting stuff. I'd like to see what she could do if she was given an opportunity to do something with someone talented again.

Exactly what I was going to say.

[quote=Chauncy;26765738]


I do like Darren and Lilia's choreography as they can put in tricks without them being the focus of the dance (probably didn't explain that very well!) whereas I don't really like Flavia's which can have too many tricks which can be all you concentrate on and it can be just about getting from one 'trick' to the, typified in her showdance. Can also find her a bit blank when she dances, in terms of her facial expression. There seems to be a scale with Karen at the extreme end then the likes of Lilia, Ola and Nicole in the middle and Flavia at the other extreme.
QUOTE]

You explained it perfectly! I totally agree.
Ah, the scale of facial expressions is definitely spot on -I found myself watching Flavia's face a lot to see if she did more expressions but she can be very blank -a wonderful dancer - but I think the facial expressions add something to the dance and they need to be somewhat there.
With her, I dont get it. Also think that Camilla sometimes overdances Latin -remember Len's comment about her being 'the wild woman of wongo' (or something equally ridiculous) during a Latin with Gethin? Sometimes she seems to throw herself about quite a bit.

I agree that Camilla has occasionally got a bit carried away with some of her latin dances, and why baffles me a bit...she has done more traditional stuff and some quite clever stuff (James' tango) before and it's been ok, so why the occasional bit of dashing around? Maybe she just tries too hard in the latin sometimes... Nothing wrong for me with her ballroom routines though, and the judges didn't think so either

Slightly OT but it is about a future pro -is Kristina Rihanoff the girlfriend of Corky Ballas?
I hear Corky is rumoured to be doing season 6 of DWTS.

I've also heard that she's Corky's girlfriend, and that Corky is doing DWTS in father/son storyline. Can't wait to have DWTS and Strictly on telly at the same time!

Thanks for all the replies, especially those comparing different pros as that's what I had in mind. I'll post my thoughts when I'm less distracted (the Olympics highlights programme is on at the moment)

Interesting post - I agree with alot of what you have written, especially about Ian, he comes across as a good teacher, encouraging and patient but still able to push people to do their best.

Don't agree with the part highlighted above though - Matt isn't shy! He is fairly quietly spoken on TV but not shy...
I think it was more to do with the fact that she was SO quiet, she didn't really come across as having much personality, which in the first week I think is important, to give the viewers something to latch on to.....and also I don't think many people had a clue who she was! So she didn't have a natural following like someone from say, Eastenders.
Added on to that, the fact that Matthew was a new pro and so didn't have fans already like many of the others - I think it was a combination of these things rather than him being too shy or not determined.............

I have to say I have different opinions of most of the pro's when talking about their teaching ability compared to their dancing ability.... for example I think Darren is a great teacher..... but when it comes to watching him in the pro dances, I'm not too fussed to be honest.

They all have different strengths which is why it is so interesting to watch how they cope with the different personalities they are given..

I'm not sure Siobhan leaving was anything to do with shyness or fanbases... she was just rubbish! And not in a funny way like Fiona

In their exit interview, they jokingly said that by adding in the illegal lift, Fiona and Brendan had hijacked Siobhan's sympathy vote!

LOL! Well yes, that didn't help matters either!!
At least if you have some fans to start with, they might give you enough votes to get through the first week, even if you have two left feet *mentioning no names*..

A major factor is the fact that they (Siobhan and Matthew) were 2nd from bottom out of 12, IIRC. In the first couple of weeks the voting public is probably just warming up and getting used to the idea of Strictly back on their screens, so the voting tends to be closely related to the leaderboard. For e.g. last year Kenny and Brian were last and 2nd bottom and both ended up in the bottom 2, and Kate in crutches was always going to get the sympathy vote, pushing Letitia and Stephanie who were 2nd and 3rd from the bottom into the dance off. I suspect personalities, partner chemistry etc only kick in a bit later on in the series.

Excellent post katmobile and very perceptive.

Of all the male pros, the one I would like to see shine this year is James, as he has been unlucky one way or another over the last 2 series and would like to see what he can do routine wise in the latter stages.

On Ian, I still remember watching his tango with Zoe (the first, longer and better version) slackjawed. He does do better ballroom than latin for me though the Carnaby St samba was a great idea. It'd be nice to see him win instead of always being the bridesmaid.....

I agree on James, I don't know what it was last year that made me warm to him, but he really has had bad luck and I'd love to see him with a good partner this year.

Poor Ian! It's tricky for him that he always gets the tall partners who will generally find latin more difficult... I've noticed he can always be relied on to get a high mark for his Samba though!
He's another one who has had bad luck, but in a different way- he's had three partners with a decent potential from the start, and they've all been unpopular . Perhaps the GBP doesn't like tall people!

I felt a bit for James last year I must admit! He may not have endeared himself to a lot of people the previous year but he's not a monster A man of strong opinions i think, but no monster He didn't deserve that dismal exit!

Gabby certainly didn't either!

Would be difficult to find someone again for him with the same amount of dance talent...however an interesting challenge for him would be to give him someone who has a latent talent but who needs nurturing to bring it out...a la a journey.

On Ian and his partners.... Jill was always going to win that one, Zoe was too hyper and the GBP had fallen in love with Goughie and Penny maybe was just a bit bland...unfortunate though.

Agree totally I like James actually and I think the fact he speaks his mind doesn't endear him to everyone but I found a lot of his comments interesting as he doesn't mince his words and is pretty supportive of those he considers to have talent. I wouldn't want to be taught by him but then I'm pretty useless as a dancer so I'm not sure I'd want to be taught by anyone.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/strictly...g-romance.html

I'm rather looking forward to the 2 new female pros. I don't care much about Brian Fortuna and I hope he's here for just this series - he wasn't exactly a hit on DWTS. However Kristina is a good dancer and Hayley is quite entertaining, from what I've seen of her on the NZ DWTS.

It'll be interesting to find out how all 3 get on with the other pros. At least Hayley knows Brendan from DWTS, and Kristina and Brian know each other already...

I love hearing everyones comments and it is great to find so many people with such a keen interest. Many of my comments are similiar to that of most of you. So I'll TRY keep it brief...

I can be a bit biased but I think I am honest with my opinions too!

Darren & Lilia... love them, my absolute favourites, unbeatable in my eyes that is both together and with their professionals. I feel that although their latin is their speciality they in no way lack in their ballroom..amazing.

Closely behind them is Matt and Nicole. Matt words can't describe and Nicole Cutler is outstanding, can't believe that she has been dropped the girl is amazing!

Love Karen Hardy!

Last year in particular I also warmed to James and Ola a lot.

Actually, IMO I feel only Erin and Anton ( and I really like both of them) lack a lot in their Latin ability.

Will be interesting to see the new pro's I think their technical ability is not up to that of our own pro's

Does anyone have a definitive height list for the pros?

These are (my) guesstimates:

Anton du Beke 5'11"
Darren Bennett 5'6"
Erin Boag 5'6"
Flavia Cacace 5'2"
Brendan Cole 6'1"
Matthew Cutler 6'2"
Camilla Dallerup 5'7"
Brian Fortuna 6'0"
Karen Hardy 5'5"
Hayley Holt 5'8"
James Jordan 5'11"
Ola Jordan 5'3"
Lilia Kopylova 5'2"
Kristina Rihanoff 5'3"
Vincent Simone 5'7"
Ian Waite 6'3"

Lilia is 5ft 3, I think Darren is 5ft 8, Ola 5ft 4, Camilla 5ft 6

I think Vincnt is the shortest male pro =then Darren. James isnt that much taller -a couple of inches I think.

This isn't a bash-the-pros thread, but I feel the need to say that I was slightly alarmed by Camilla's chacha on saturday. I'm no dance expert but from what I saw, her technique was rather suspect. I think she's a lovely ballroom dancer but her latin has unfortunately left me cold one time too many.

I'd love someone to post a youtube clip of Camilla doing a fabulous pro chacha so I can compare. Maybe she was just having an off day but I thought she looked more like one of the celebs than the "world class" professional that Tom Chambers alluded to.

[quote=katie_p;26753533]
It is a fine line though, one of the reasons I don't especially enjoy Erin's latin Strictly routines is I feel as though she doesn't really sell the dance. So there definitely is a sense for me that part of the success of a male celeb/female pro routine is the female pro giving the routine a bit of sparkle. QUOTE]

If you go back to series 3 when Erin danced with Colin, he never scored less than 30 for the latin the worst score being 30 for the jive, her rumba was amazing and everyone remembers it. I dont think Erin is fantastic at latin, but i think she shows off the celebs better than most of the other pros. Erins ballroom on the other hand is spot on, and technically great (waltz being exceptional with all her celebs)

I think Erin and Lilia are the best teachers - they always get the best from their celebs.

I enjoyed Ola last year with Keny, think she is lovely, but not blown away when her and James dance.

Anton and Erins ballroom is fantastic and always blows me away. I cant take my eyes off them, and no matter how many times i see them perform, they are just magical.

I actually got goosebumps by watching Vincent and Flavias waltz both on tv and live, their quickstep and argentine tango are mesmerizing.

I dont like Camilla doing ballroom as her head position freaks me out - this is a personal view and not meant to offend - think Ians ballroom is ok though.

Matt and Nicole are fantastic, ive never seen anyone spin like Nicole, she is truly breathtaking. Will miss Nicole this year.

Personally Darren & Lilia do nothing for me, but i admire her teaching.

Karen I personally feel that she does a lot of the look at me, she was great with Mark and a deserved winner. I had a workshop with her which was real fun, but didnt get a lot out of it, it moved too quick before people had picked it up. As a dancer think i prefer her with matt she looked far more comfortable in the pro dance with him.

I have had varying workshops with the pros and by far the best teacher is Erin.

In terms of Ballroom Anton is the master, I like Brendan's ballroom too (have you noticed he always has a bigger bust up with his partner the week of the tango - i wonder if hes trying to get anger into the dance) loved his VW last year too prefer his ballroom to his latin. Also like Matt C's ballroom.
Not convinced by James' and Vincent's ballroom Vincent sometimes seems a bit quick.

Erin again is the Ballroom mistress along with Lillia who has wonderful musicality in her dances and Camilla is very graceful. Not over sure about Flavia she seems to do some odd things at the start/finish at times.

Latin - Darren I think has the edge here along with Vincent, Matt, Brendan and James are also very sharp. The worst is Anton he never looks comfy doing it and sometimes Ian looks as though he finds it hard.

Lillia is the queen of latin for me she is sooooo quick also like Ola's Latin she seems more built for it.
I agree Karen seems to over dance and her faces scare me at times too

It's a tricky thing trying to compare the pros...but for me the criteria is about what the professional brings as a package to Strictly i.e. as dancer/choreographer/teacher that matters most.... Being a world class competitor doesn't necessarily mean you'll be the best pro for Strictly....in fact being a flexible coach and choreographer might actually be more useful.

So I'd plump for Darren, Lillia & Erin as the best teachers.....they've nurtured a range of celebs. Some with a natural talent & some "no hopers" each time with obvious postive results and consistent improvement. Plus last year when the couples moved on to the “2 dances a week” stage, quite a few of the front runners really struggled but Leticia (and Gethin) really seemed to take it in their stride, performing well and even improving - that speaks very highly of Darren's (and Camilla's) training/scheduling/ approach.

Choreographically -
Darren and Lilia are always good. Darren in particular has delivered some extremely effective and sensitive choreography obviously tailored to his partners skills.....he's responsible for some of the most memorable routines on strictly.... What I like about D&L is that they really challenge their celebs choreographically but don't overstretch them which is very tricky balance and takes significant skill. I also really respect the fact that they don't just recycle a routine for the Xmas special but do something new despite the extra work.... especially impressive as they're usually still competing in the main show at the time of filming. (Ahem..Matthew ...cough cough... Karen…please take note….. LOL)

Iain and Camilla bring a really distinctive theatrical quality to their choreography which would be missed - e.g. Mien herr tango - Iain has a real knack of picking unusual music and then doing something interesting with it. He's also done some lovely ballroom routines - Denise's quickstep, Zoe's tango etc.

Erin and Anton add something with their ballroom choreography - it often has a lovely vintage feel and sometimes trad music which I enjoy. (Although Anton's latin is memorable for all the wrong reasons eek!!!LOL)

James has very interesting latin choreography – it’s a pity we didn’t get to see more of it last year.

Vincent and Flavia are very interesting but can sometimes overcomplicate things and be a bit too tricksy for the level of their celeb.

This might be controversial but it's a pet peeve...Flavia who is an amazing dancer ... over dances around her celeb. It made poor Phil look even worse imo, she did the same thing with Matt on occasion. At times he became a convenient pole for her to pivot around. I think it's a related issue to the choreography... sorta something about acquiring a delicate balance within the routine...so that the dance works as a whole. It's not something Vincent does though... he's actually very good at ....putting on my terrible Italian accent ..."showing off my woman" hahahaha.