She definitely choreographed all Mark's other routines though- Salsa, Samba etc.

I find her choreography a bit less consistent than some of the other pros, but she has produced some standout routines. Hated her Cha Cha with Gary though!

I don't think the pros choreographed the Salsa either. If you saw the last series, it was made clear that Richard Marcel was involved. The Salsa is another dance, like the AT, where the pros are not experienced

Richard Marcel also choreographed Matt's showdance, and some of Alesha's though, and I don't think that had been done before... Mark and Karen's showdance is unmistakeably Karen!

Really, wow shows how mach I know about the show, I had no idea about that, I thought the pro's choreograph the showdances.

I'm pretty sure they have done up to last series- I definitely see the influence of certain pros on their showdances. Goughie's showdance is very characteristic of Lilia, and has some moves I've seen her and Darren do in pro dances, and Zoe's was pure Ian! I also think if someone else had been responsible for Colin's showdance, Erin would have pointed the finger by now

I stand corrected. I just recently found out that Karen didn’t choreograph those dances. I agree about Matthew, he is fantastic, I loved the partnership he had with Alesha.


How come some celebrities get the better routines? For example why was Mark and Karen Argentine tango so much better than any AT we have seen on the show. Does that not give advantage to some couples.

I was just thinking that, I'm sure Erin and Colin would shift the blame if it was not Erin’s routine. Karen and Mark show dance had to be Karen’s work because there were some moves she used before in that dance.

Wow I didn't know that I wonder why? I'm maybe alone in this but I thought Alesha's showdance was really really naff....and not in an intentionally ironic way which might have been fun. ( The routine that is not her dancing ability folks!!!)

For me the best Showdance routines have been
Jill & Darren's, Zoe & Ian's, Darren & Lilia.... why? Because each of these routine's completely encapsulated and revealed what was special & unique in each of the partnerships.... chemistry/music/connection/choreography all of it came together ....and none of them relied on big show off lifts or movements just for the sake of it.

I think basically as latin and ballroom specialists the pros maybe don't really have the same level of expertise in AT or Salsa for example, so they are given additional support by professionals in that field....I guess they work together to decide the final routine.

BTW partly the reason why Karen and Mark's AT looked the best ....was down to lighting, costume, music and their ability to sell the dance.

In fact for me Darren and Emma's AT was much better choreographically .....I mean is in terms of exploring the range of movements particular to that dance etc.....much more difficult too.

Anyway in terms of unfair advantage...I don't think it's too much of an issue......Flavia and Matt's AT wasn't much cop despite Flavia having the most experience of all the pros left in that series.

Does anyone think that James Jordan got voted off early in the last series because people remembered how horrible he was to his partner in the previous series.
Some people vote for their favourite pro dancer or celeb not the dance.

I disagree, I thought it was great. The lifts used were in keeping with the music, and helped 'tell the story', whilst I thought there was not enough dance content in Matt & Flavia's (from Matt), but the lifts were very good, but I prefer lifts that fit in better, rather than being 'tacked on'.

From what I have read, I also believe Richard had input in Matt & Flavia's showdance too. He seems to be taking over the show, as he now seems to be involved in all the group dances.

I thought his Dirty Dancing routine was good, but I haven't rated this years group dances

I totally agree with you about lifts - I hate them being "tacked on". Btw it's just taste thing with Alesha's showdance. For me it had a tad too much bad 1980's inflection in the choreography .....and I like retro 80's but it has to be done knowingly not with a straight face ...but like I say it's just a personal taste thing.

Someone mentioned that the salsa and AT experts only offer guidance, which may explain some of the rather bizarre routines we've seen over the years.


Does anyone know if Richard Marcel was involved in any of this year's showdances?

Tom's definitely seemed like the kind of thing Camilla would choreograph herself, so maybe not.

I wonder if they have outside choreographers just checking things over to make sure there's no repeat of muppetgate!

I think Brendan made Lisas.. (I think i am the only one who actually quite liked it Not as much as Toms though and i didnt like Rachels)
I think Camilla made Toms
& Vincent made Rachels i reckon, seems like something they would all choreograph..

Personally my fave pro is Matthew, he shows such enthusiasm for the dancing, he always has a great relationship with his partners and he choreographs beautiful routines that show of his partners strenghs. Hes a genuine nice guy, with a genuine love for dancing and always makes beautiful friendships with his partners and never lets out his frustrations (if he has any) on his partners unlike some of the others (*cough*Brendan & James*cough*)..
My favourite choreography he has done is:
Aleshas Chachacha (Both Series 5 and Christmas Special)
Aleshas Waltz
Aleshas Vienesse Waltz (Both Series 5 and Christmas Special)
Aleshas Showdance
Aleshas Rumba
Aleshas Foxtrot
Christines Samba
Christines Foxtrot
Christines Quickstep
Christines Waltz
Christines Jive
Christines Salsa
Christines ChaChaCha
Christines American Smooth
(And would of loved to see the Vienesse Waltz and Rumba aswell )

What a wonderful guy

And my fave for choreography from the female pro is Erin & Lillia.. They always work to their males strenghs and two nice people it seems

On the other hand though i am not keen on Vincent as his routines just seem to show of him, and are always too 'raunchy' when it dosnt need to be and that makes me a little agitated at times, and also Ola, she just seems to make her routines quite bland and the same goes with Flavia..

They are ALL brilliant in their own way. However, my favourites, particularly in the Professional Section: I loved watching Karen & Brendan dance together, thought they were just brilliant, and a pity we didn't get to see them this year!
I also think Darren & Lillia are great too.

With regard to the Pro/Am part of the show, Karen really did shine with Mark, she saw her opportunity and pushed him all the way!
Similarly with Lilia & Darren G.
Thought Natasha & Brendan were great, particularly their Paso Doble and again with Kelly & just brilliant brilliant choreography this year for Lisa.

At the end of the day it all depends on who the Pro gets ie, phyisical fittness, age, etc etc.

I hope their won't be too much of a huge cutt in the Pro dancers due to the re-vamp, but due to the arrival of Brian/Christina - I guess there are some Pros where SCD was probaly their last??!!

A lot of good points have been made so I won't repeat too many. I think Darren, Lilia, Brendan and Kristina choreograph good routines to suit their celebs and show off their strengths. I also think Ola choreographs well but she doesn't come across as a very patient teacher, ditto Brendan.

Ola and Hayley are the only two for me who haven't had "that" routine, when their choreography just works perfectly with their partner.


(snipped, sorry!)

I wouldn't say Ola's choreography was bland - I find it a bit gimmicky, like she's trying too hard to hide her partner's weaknesses.

Erin is my favourite teacher. I think she's been wonderful in a couple of series, but especially this one. I also love Darren and Lilia, and I think Matthew does lovely soft routines. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Brian's capable of next series.

Im really worried.. the producers will now be thinking about whos going to go, and we just dont have a clue
I really hope its not my faves and i really hope they dont make to many drastic changes!!

I read an article this morning about Camilla considering whether or not to return next year.

oh no..
wonder who else is thinking the same thing..

we know about karen and camilla so far.. (and probs erin)

Not only them, but their partners will also have an uncertain future if those girls go.

i suppose in a way you might be right i fear for the coupling of Anton and Erin (however i feel they may want to keep anton for something else)
and also Ian and Camilla (if camilla is thinking of going....
oh dear things arnt looking to good,
however im sure some of the pros will stay as it wont be good without some familiar faces..
maybe camilla thinks (and knows) that she isnt going to win again after all this press about it..
where did you read this article?

....Ian...


Here;
http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/tv/r...6191&GT1=61503

Their showdance was Paso based, so it would have looked poor if they were smiling their way through it. I personally thought it was a brilliant showdance, and the lifts were very neatly fitted into the routine, and didn't look out of place (some of Matt and Flavia's lifts looked out of place, same with Rachel's this year).

Personally, I think the best teachers are Matthew and Lilia, though the former has got lucky with his partners (especially Alesha who was amazing), but Lilia has created some pretty great routines for less talented dancers (Don's Tango was superb, and she did brilliantly with Matt and Darren). Credit to Flavia, I was really impressed by most of her choreography with Matt DA, and only Lilia would be able to get as much out of him, particular highlights were the Quickstep, Jive and Rumba. The worst teachers are James and Ola for me, they don't stand out to me as being particularly good teachers, and their routines don't really impress me.

In terms of dancers, I think Matthew and Flavia are the best dancers, they look so great dancing with their pro partners, and given a talented celeb, look great dancing with them too. Flavia I think looks more animated when dancing with someone other than Vincent actually, and I really enjoyed her dancing with the other pros (all the males bar Brendan and Ian). Anton is the worst dancer for me, his Latin is atrocious, though his Ballroom is very good, and I'm not exactly blown away by Hayley, James or Ola either.

Personally, I think it is easier for a Latin specialist to pull off a passable Ballroom dance than a Ballroom specialist with Latin (though Hayley did well with the Chicago routine), and I think most of Erin's Latin routines this year have been actually quite good, in particular the Jive which was the best of the series.