Apple Ad "Misleading" and pulled

darkknight77 · 27-08-2008, 06:03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7582197.stm

Quote:

A television advert for the iPhone misled consumers, the Advertising Standards Authority has ruled.

Two complaints to the watchdog noted that the advert said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone".

But the ASA said because the iPhone did not support Flash or Java - two programs that form part of many webpages - the claim was misleading. Apple had argued its claim referred to availability of webpages, rather than their specific appearance.

The iPhone employs a web browser called Safari, which is built on freely available software. Many webpages, however, employ small software programs like Flash and Java to display graphics and animations.

Those programs are proprietary software, and Apple opted not to enable them on the iPhone. The result is that pages viewed with Safari may look different to those same pages viewed on other browsers.

The ASA said the advert "gave a misleading impression of the internet capabilities of the iPhone". It must therefore not be aired again in its current form, it said.

"Because the iPhone doesn't support Flash or Java, you couldn't really see the internet in its full glory," said Olivia Campbell, a spokesperson for the ASA.

"They made a very general claim that you can see the internet in its entirety, and actually that's not quite true - so we've upheld."

Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling.

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 07:46

Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight.

unclecol · 27-08-2008, 07:54

By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself...

neo6776 · 27-08-2008, 08:53

Quote:

Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling.

Now why doesn't that surprise me? Why do they never comment when something goes wrong?

brianwilson · 27-08-2008, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight.

So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java?

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java?

Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard. In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they?

The iPhone web browser supports internet standards so in my view Apple weren't misleading.

Also on my iPhone there is a setting to turn Java Script on and off with it being set as on by default.

cursed-reiver · 27-08-2008, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclecol

By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself...

IIRC ITV uses it as well, not that it bothers me, rarely watch any programs on that network.

brianwilson · 27-08-2008, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard.

There only seems to be you using the words "internet standard". The ruling is against Apple because they said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone", not "we use all internet standards". Clearly, without Java or Flash, a significant part of the web is unviewable and, in some cases, impossible to view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they?

Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available?
Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software?
Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade?

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available?

I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software?

Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade?

Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is.

Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only.

Sananda Maitreya · 27-08-2008, 10:19

seems like a reasonable decision on the face of it.

brianwilson · 27-08-2008, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux.

There is no advert suggesting all parts of the internet are available on Linux. There is an advert stating that for the iphone. Do you see the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is.

Well I wouldn't consider it anywhere near as standard as Java or Flash but you seem to consider it so, ho hum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post.

You did say that because Linux doesn't run a piece of microsoft software then it should be considered as hopeless as the iphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only.

Let's try once more. Apple said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". Apple. No-one else. So Apple lied. No-one else. Once more you're, bizarrely, using the prominence of ms software to defend the lies of your chosen god.

moisie · 27-08-2008, 10:24

Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence. Personally, I took the advert to mean that you could view full webpages as they were intended to be shown in terms of the pages themselves - not any third party media formats that may be embedded on them. My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet. I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things.

Sananda Maitreya · 27-08-2008, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisie

Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence.

probably best not to claim the ability to access all parts of the internet in that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisie

My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet.

and probably best not to make the same claim about macs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisie

I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things.

i think someone might reasonable expect (having been induced to enter an 18 month contract for iphone service by that ad) to be able to access "all the parts of the internet" including the flash content parts.

Staunchy · 27-08-2008, 10:31

I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Let's try once more. Apple said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". Apple. No-one else. So Apple lied. No-one else. Once more you're, bizarrely, using the prominence of ms software to defend the lies of your chosen god.

Sigh... What i'm saying is Apple weren't being misleading, what they meant is that the iPhones web browser conforms to internet standards unlike alot of mobile devices (Windows Mobile Included) which it does.

What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.

brianwilson · 27-08-2008, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Sigh... What i'm saying is Apple weren't being misleading, what they meant is that the iPhones web browser conforms to internet standards unlike alot of mobile devices (Windows Mobile Included) which it does.

Lucky for us that we have you here to re-define Apple's ads for us. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have access to your wise words and will simply believe the advert, which doesn't mention internet standards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.

Perhaps we should ditch the ASA and simply have you in charge, as you seem to know best.

Sananda Maitreya · 27-08-2008, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staunchy

I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.

now those ads for personal injury where they say the service is free are misleading; the service is at no charge to the claimant but it is not free as the defendant the pays when they lose.

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staunchy

I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.

Yeah very strange that they take the literal meaning of ever word Apple says when there are considerably worse claims made in adverts daily.

Sananda Maitreya · 27-08-2008, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.

and why would that make it wrong?

zx50 · 27-08-2008, 10:39

Why is it that whenever there's something clearly wrong with an advert or description or whatever, the company ALWAYS tries to defend their decision? When you read the first part of the article, you can quite clearly see that they HAVE been misleading by the fact that they haven't put Java or Flash on the phone, and yet they STILL try and defend what was said on the advert. Probably petrified of losing their job likely if they do admit to be wrong about the advert. They should have by rights made it possible for you to hook this device up to the PC/Mac, and then install any software like a player maybe using the computer you have infront of you. It is a bit stupid bringing something out that doesn't have all that's needed to work properly. I think they most likely realise this, but won't dare admit to it though, probably because they'll not want to be seen as stupid enough to have made this obvious mistake. I say mistake though, but I'm just wondering whether this was just pure laziness. Programs are changing constantly on the internet, so not being able to install the latest player, or Java or whatever is a bit stupid really.

neo6776 · 27-08-2008, 10:40

One question. why doesn't the iphone have flash and Java installed? Fairly basic things now.

flagpole · 27-08-2008, 10:42

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7582197.stm

anyone seen this.

it seems apple have got introuble for saying "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone".

when it has no flash or java

Gormond · 27-08-2008, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Lucky for us that we have you here to re-define Apple's ads for us. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have access to your wise words and will simply believe the advert, which doesn't mention internet standards.

Maybe you should complain that Beans don't infact mean Heinz... ASA only got Apple to change this because Windows Fan Bois complained as most adverts could be deemed unfit if this incredible word scrutiny went on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwilson

Perhaps we should ditch the ASA and simply have you in charge, as you seem to know best.

Yeah who am I to question the ASA, they are ofcoarse always 100% correct and shouldn't be challenged

cobaltmale · 27-08-2008, 10:43

I'm an Apple fan (though not an iPhone owner) and I think the complaints are valid.

G

cobaltmale · 27-08-2008, 10:44

By the way ...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=884026

G

27-08-2008, 06:03	#1
darkknight77 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chelmsford Posts: 3,249	Apple Ad "Misleading" and pulled http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7582197.stm Quote: A television advert for the iPhone misled consumers, the Advertising Standards Authority has ruled. Two complaints to the watchdog noted that the advert said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". But the ASA said because the iPhone did not support Flash or Java - two programs that form part of many webpages - the claim was misleading. Apple had argued its claim referred to availability of webpages, rather than their specific appearance. The iPhone employs a web browser called Safari, which is built on freely available software. Many webpages, however, employ small software programs like Flash and Java to display graphics and animations. Those programs are proprietary software, and Apple opted not to enable them on the iPhone. The result is that pages viewed with Safari may look different to those same pages viewed on other browsers. The ASA said the advert "gave a misleading impression of the internet capabilities of the iPhone". It must therefore not be aired again in its current form, it said. "Because the iPhone doesn't support Flash or Java, you couldn't really see the internet in its full glory," said Olivia Campbell, a spokesperson for the ASA. "They made a very general claim that you can see the internet in its entirety, and actually that's not quite true - so we've upheld." Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling.

27-08-2008, 10:42	#22
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Apple Ad "Misleading" and pulled http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7582197.stm anyone seen this. it seems apple have got introuble for saying "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". when it has no flash or java

27-08-2008, 07:46	#2
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight.

27-08-2008, 07:54	#3
unclecol Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 139	By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself...

27-08-2008, 08:53	#4
neo6776 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dundee, Scotland ♂ Posts: 9,026	Quote: Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling. Now why doesn't that surprise me? Why do they never comment when something goes wrong?

27-08-2008, 09:38	#5
brianwilson Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,471	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight. So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java?

27-08-2008, 09:49	#6
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by brianwilson So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java? Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard. In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they? The iPhone web browser supports internet standards so in my view Apple weren't misleading. Also on my iPhone there is a setting to turn Java Script on and off with it being set as on by default.

27-08-2008, 09:56	#7
cursed-reiver Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,625	Quote: Originally Posted by unclecol By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself... IIRC ITV uses it as well, not that it bothers me, rarely watch any programs on that network.

27-08-2008, 09:57	#8
brianwilson Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,471	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard. There only seems to be you using the words "internet standard". The ruling is against Apple because they said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone", not "we use all internet standards". Clearly, without Java or Flash, a significant part of the web is unviewable and, in some cases, impossible to view. Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they? Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available? Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software? Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade?

27-08-2008, 10:14	#9
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by brianwilson Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available? I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux. Quote: Originally Posted by brianwilson Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software? Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post. Quote: Originally Posted by brianwilson Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade? Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is. Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only.

27-08-2008, 10:19	#10
Sananda Maitreya Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,687	seems like a reasonable decision on the face of it.

27-08-2008, 10:22	#11
brianwilson Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,471	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux. There is no advert suggesting all parts of the internet are available on Linux. There is an advert stating that for the iphone. Do you see the difference? Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is. Well I wouldn't consider it anywhere near as standard as Java or Flash but you seem to consider it so, ho hum. Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post. You did say that because Linux doesn't run a piece of microsoft software then it should be considered as hopeless as the iphone. Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only. Let's try once more. Apple said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". Apple. No-one else. So Apple lied. No-one else. Once more you're, bizarrely, using the prominence of ms software to defend the lies of your chosen god.

27-08-2008, 10:24	#12
moisie Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Herts Posts: 2,378	Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence. Personally, I took the advert to mean that you could view full webpages as they were intended to be shown in terms of the pages themselves - not any third party media formats that may be embedded on them. My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet. I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things.

27-08-2008, 10:31	#13
Sananda Maitreya Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,687	Quote: Originally Posted by moisie Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence. probably best not to claim the ability to access all parts of the internet in that case. Quote: Originally Posted by moisie My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet. and probably best not to make the same claim about macs. Quote: Originally Posted by moisie I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things. i think someone might reasonable expect (having been induced to enter an 18 month contract for iphone service by that ad) to be able to access "all the parts of the internet" including the flash content parts.

27-08-2008, 10:31	#14
Staunchy Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 9,780	I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.

27-08-2008, 10:34	#16
brianwilson Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,471	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Sigh... What i'm saying is Apple weren't being misleading, what they meant is that the iPhones web browser conforms to internet standards unlike alot of mobile devices (Windows Mobile Included) which it does. Lucky for us that we have you here to re-define Apple's ads for us. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have access to your wise words and will simply believe the advert, which doesn't mention internet standards. Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can. Perhaps we should ditch the ASA and simply have you in charge, as you seem to know best.

27-08-2008, 10:35	#17
Sananda Maitreya Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,687	Quote: Originally Posted by Staunchy I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads. now those ads for personal injury where they say the service is free are misleading; the service is at no charge to the claimant but it is not free as the defendant the pays when they lose.

27-08-2008, 10:36	#19
Sananda Maitreya Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,687	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can. and why would that make it wrong?

27-08-2008, 10:39	#20
zx50 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: County Durham Posts: 78,630	Why is it that whenever there's something clearly wrong with an advert or description or whatever, the company ALWAYS tries to defend their decision? When you read the first part of the article, you can quite clearly see that they HAVE been misleading by the fact that they haven't put Java or Flash on the phone, and yet they STILL try and defend what was said on the advert. Probably petrified of losing their job likely if they do admit to be wrong about the advert. They should have by rights made it possible for you to hook this device up to the PC/Mac, and then install any software like a player maybe using the computer you have infront of you. It is a bit stupid bringing something out that doesn't have all that's needed to work properly. I think they most likely realise this, but won't dare admit to it though, probably because they'll not want to be seen as stupid enough to have made this obvious mistake. I say mistake though, but I'm just wondering whether this was just pure laziness. Programs are changing constantly on the internet, so not being able to install the latest player, or Java or whatever is a bit stupid really.

27-08-2008, 10:40	#21
neo6776 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dundee, Scotland ♂ Posts: 9,026	One question. why doesn't the iphone have flash and Java installed? Fairly basic things now.

27-08-2008, 10:43	#24
cobaltmale Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dunfermline ♂ Posts: 20,150	I'm an Apple fan (though not an iPhone owner) and I think the complaints are valid. G

27-08-2008, 10:44	#25
cobaltmale Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dunfermline ♂ Posts: 20,150	By the way ... http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=884026 G

DS Forums

Apple Ad "Misleading" and pulled