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Apple Ad "Misleading" and pulled
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darkknight77
27-08-2008
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7582197.stm

Quote:
“A television advert for the iPhone misled consumers, the Advertising Standards Authority has ruled.

Two complaints to the watchdog noted that the advert said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone".

But the ASA said because the iPhone did not support Flash or Java - two programs that form part of many webpages - the claim was misleading. Apple had argued its claim referred to availability of webpages, rather than their specific appearance.

The iPhone employs a web browser called Safari, which is built on freely available software. Many webpages, however, employ small software programs like Flash and Java to display graphics and animations.

Those programs are proprietary software, and Apple opted not to enable them on the iPhone. The result is that pages viewed with Safari may look different to those same pages viewed on other browsers.

The ASA said the advert "gave a misleading impression of the internet capabilities of the iPhone". It must therefore not be aired again in its current form, it said.

"Because the iPhone doesn't support Flash or Java, you couldn't really see the internet in its full glory," said Olivia Campbell, a spokesperson for the ASA.

"They made a very general claim that you can see the internet in its entirety, and actually that's not quite true - so we've upheld."

Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling. ”

Gormond
27-08-2008
Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight.
unclecol
27-08-2008
By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself...
neo6776
27-08-2008
Quote:
“Apple said it did not want to comment on the ruling.”

Now why doesn't that surprise me? Why do they never comment when something goes wrong?
brianwilson
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Seems silly to me, Flash isn't an internet standard. it's a third party addon. It's like saying you can't view all parts of the internet on a Linux machine because it doesn't support MS Silverlight.”

So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java?
Gormond
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“So you think Silverlight is as popular on the internet as Flash and Java?”

Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard. In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they?

The iPhone web browser supports internet standards so in my view Apple weren't misleading.

Also on my iPhone there is a setting to turn Java Script on and off with it being set as on by default.
cursed-reiver
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by unclecol:
“By virtue of its popularity it's a de facto standard, as is Java. I don't have Silverlight and I only ever notice that on the MS site itself...”

IIRC ITV uses it as well, not that it bothers me, rarely watch any programs on that network.
brianwilson
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Popularity doesn't mean an internet standard.”

There only seems to be you using the words "internet standard". The ruling is against Apple because they said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone", not "we use all internet standards". Clearly, without Java or Flash, a significant part of the web is unviewable and, in some cases, impossible to view.

Originally Posted by Gormond:
“In the USA Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so Linux users couldn't view all parts of the internet could they?”

Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available?
Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software?
Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade?
Gormond
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Can you show me the advert for Linux where it's claimed that all parts of the internet are available?”

I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux.
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Shall we measure all devices by whether or not they run microsoft software?”

Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post.
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Do you think that software that has been around briefly should be considered as 'de facto' as software that has been used heavily for over a decade?”

Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is.

Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only.
Sananda Maitreya
27-08-2008
seems like a reasonable decision on the face of it.
brianwilson
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“I didn't say say that, but to say "All parts of the internet" aren't available on the iPhone, the same can be said for Linux.”

There is no advert suggesting all parts of the internet are available on Linux. There is an advert stating that for the iphone. Do you see the difference?

Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Who decides what briefly is? Silverlight was used to broadcast the Olympics so its here to stay and could certainly be taken to be as much as a "standard" now as flash is.”

Well I wouldn't consider it anywhere near as standard as Java or Flash but you seem to consider it so, ho hum.

Originally Posted by Gormond:
“ Again I didn't say that... did you even read my post.”

You did say that because Linux doesn't run a piece of microsoft software then it should be considered as hopeless as the iphone.

Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Fact remains that they said it cannot view all parts of the internet which could be said for anything that isn't Windows, as many internet technologies are Windows only.”

Let's try once more. Apple said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". Apple. No-one else. So Apple lied. No-one else. Once more you're, bizarrely, using the prominence of ms software to defend the lies of your chosen god.
moisie
27-08-2008
Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence. Personally, I took the advert to mean that you could view full webpages as they were intended to be shown in terms of the pages themselves - not any third party media formats that may be embedded on them. My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet. I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things.
Sananda Maitreya
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by moisie:
“Arguably since you can post and sort of file onto a server and make it accessible via the web, no 1 device can ever be guaranteed to be able to access the full internet unless it had every sort of app installed on it to be able to interpret every sort of file format in existence.”

probably best not to claim the ability to access all parts of the internet in that case.

Originally Posted by moisie:
“My mac can't view drm'ed windows media, which doesn't mean I can't view the entire internet.”

and probably best not to make the same claim about macs.

Originally Posted by moisie:
“I suppose technically the ASA are correct, but at the same time I find it kind of depressing that everything in the world has to be so defined, so carefully worded that their can be no ambiguity, no-one can possibly be offended or excluded and so on. Apple may not have been correct but at the same time I don't think they were wildly incorrect. It seems like a waste of many people's time and money to deal with such relatively trivial things.”

i think someone might reasonable expect (having been induced to enter an 18 month contract for iphone service by that ad) to be able to access "all the parts of the internet" including the flash content parts.
Staunchy
27-08-2008
I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.
Gormond
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Let's try once more. Apple said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone". Apple. No-one else. So Apple lied. No-one else. Once more you're, bizarrely, using the prominence of ms software to defend the lies of your chosen god.”

Sigh... What i'm saying is Apple weren't being misleading, what they meant is that the iPhones web browser conforms to internet standards unlike alot of mobile devices (Windows Mobile Included) which it does.

What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.
brianwilson
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“Sigh... What i'm saying is Apple weren't being misleading, what they meant is that the iPhones web browser conforms to internet standards unlike alot of mobile devices (Windows Mobile Included) which it does.”

Lucky for us that we have you here to re-define Apple's ads for us. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have access to your wise words and will simply believe the advert, which doesn't mention internet standards.

Originally Posted by Gormond:
“What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.”

Perhaps we should ditch the ASA and simply have you in charge, as you seem to know best.
Sananda Maitreya
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Staunchy:
“I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.”

now those ads for personal injury where they say the service is free are misleading; the service is at no charge to the claimant but it is not free as the defendant the pays when they lose.
Gormond
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Staunchy:
“I'd rather they left this advert running and banned all insurance and financial ads.”

Yeah very strange that they take the literal meaning of ever word Apple says when there are considerably worse claims made in adverts daily.
Sananda Maitreya
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“
What I was getting at is what the ASA are taking "all the parts of the internet" to mean IMO is wrong as under there definition nothing can.”

and why would that make it wrong?
zx50
27-08-2008
Why is it that whenever there's something clearly wrong with an advert or description or whatever, the company ALWAYS tries to defend their decision? When you read the first part of the article, you can quite clearly see that they HAVE been misleading by the fact that they haven't put Java or Flash on the phone, and yet they STILL try and defend what was said on the advert. Probably petrified of losing their job likely if they do admit to be wrong about the advert. They should have by rights made it possible for you to hook this device up to the PC/Mac, and then install any software like a player maybe using the computer you have infront of you. It is a bit stupid bringing something out that doesn't have all that's needed to work properly. I think they most likely realise this, but won't dare admit to it though, probably because they'll not want to be seen as stupid enough to have made this obvious mistake. I say mistake though, but I'm just wondering whether this was just pure laziness. Programs are changing constantly on the internet, so not being able to install the latest player, or Java or whatever is a bit stupid really.
neo6776
27-08-2008
One question. why doesn't the iphone have flash and Java installed? Fairly basic things now.
flagpole
27-08-2008
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7582197.stm

anyone seen this.

it seems apple have got introuble for saying "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone".

when it has no flash or java
Gormond
27-08-2008
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Lucky for us that we have you here to re-define Apple's ads for us. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have access to your wise words and will simply believe the advert, which doesn't mention internet standards.”

Maybe you should complain that Beans don't infact mean Heinz... ASA only got Apple to change this because Windows Fan Bois complained as most adverts could be deemed unfit if this incredible word scrutiny went on.
Originally Posted by brianwilson:
“Perhaps we should ditch the ASA and simply have you in charge, as you seem to know best.”

Yeah who am I to question the ASA, they are ofcoarse always 100% correct and shouldn't be challenged
cobaltmale
27-08-2008
I'm an Apple fan (though not an iPhone owner) and I think the complaints are valid.

G
cobaltmale
27-08-2008
By the way ...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=884026

G
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