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Old 27-08-2008, 22:21
anjme
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After using this forum and internet searches I have decided on the Samsung LE40A656.

Can any one suggest an alternative similar in specification for comparison?

Does any one know any known faults with this model?
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:49
nancyboy
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Which? rates this Samsung at a poor score of 46% and states that Samsung as a brand is "consistently mediocre" for picture quality.

But the best guide is really your own eyes, you need to see it working in a shop next to a "benchmark" quality brand like Panasonic or Sony.

For big screens the top rated Which? TVs are the TX-37LZD70 (scores 75%) and the "power hungry" TH-42PX7 plasma (73%).

If you are planning to watch Freeview at this screen size you need to see it working - on the Samsung you've mentioned it looks fuzzy. SD generally may not look good at all especially if you are not far away enough from the screen.

I personally wouldn't touch Samsung with a bargepole but some of them do admittedly look fabulous until you turn them on. Other people have no problem with them.

Many people here are fans of (or in one or two notable cases dealers in) one brand or another. Also once people have made a major purchase like this they will tend to defend it if only to convince themselves they haven't made a blunder. It's like men and cars.

Trust your own eyes.
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:35
Droopy11
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"....rates this Samsung at a poor score of 46% and states that Samsung as a brand is "consistently mediocre" for picture quality...."

Are you sure nancyboy??
Every review that i read about this model, it rates it 'Excellent"!!
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:39
Bouncer5
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I was just going to start a thread to say that the Samsung SM2032MW which i've brought from Richer Sounds, has really crap picture quality, it's just annoying me every time I watch so think I'm going to swap, the tv itself looks great but the pic is very ropey. Such a shame. I hope I've not missed out on any bank holiday bargains, also for some bizarre reason it wont work through an extension lead but does work when plugged into the wall.....
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Old 28-08-2008, 12:51
nancyboy
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Hi Droopy11, I've checked, yes that is the right score. It scores 2/5 for SD picture, 4/5 for HD picture, and 3/5 for sound. 46% overall. They are marking it down for the SD performance. The exact model is LE40A656A1FXXU.

Hi Bouncer5, at that price point of around £180-£200, you'd be pretty lucky to see a good picture on any new TV unless it's in a shop showing cartoons. A second-hand Sony or Panasonic CRT from ebay for £30-50 would look a million times better if you have the space for it. Some of these (excellent) old bargain TVs cost £1000 plus new, and it is a mature technology unlike LCD/Plasma. They don't look cool though!
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Old 28-08-2008, 13:17
Bouncer5
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Thanks for that matey, yes I had a 32" CRT Ferguson in our front room which the picture was amazing for, unfortunately it blew the other week, a fortnight after I chucked my Aiwai 20" CRT out as that was failing to turn on, (sods law i dare say the aiwa could've been fixed - grrrrr)

I might just have to go for 19" nearer 300 quid mark or something, interesting bout the cartoons though will bear in mind! Think i'll pop to richer sounds and see, if Samsung are notoriously cr*p i might be able to find something better. Just been into Curry's incidentally and the Samsung ones did all look consistently crap. Phillips seemed quite good actually.
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Old 28-08-2008, 13:22
cbates
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My gran has a samsung and its picture quality on SD is outstanding. Much better than my sony!
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Old 28-08-2008, 14:05
Bouncer5
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Really? Is it LCD?

Also was wondering if a HD DVD player would improve pic quality of my dvd's that i watch on it...
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Old 28-08-2008, 14:52
MD_Zero
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PANASONIC TH42PZ81 is what I have and I am more than happy...SD is perfectly watchable at distances as little as 2 feet away...it may be above your budget at roughly £1,100 though...It has all the inputs you need and mine came with a nice looking stand for the same price, best features of the tv have got to be the 1080p native, 30,000:1 native contrast and the intelligent frame creation...really makes films and games look very good...the intelligent frame creation also makes sd look upscaled in a way, looks brighter an clearer with it on than when its off
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Old 28-08-2008, 20:29
AlanO
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Which? rates this Samsung at a poor score of 46% and states that Samsung as a brand is "consistently mediocre" for picture quality.

But the best guide is really your own eyes, you need to see it working in a shop next to a "benchmark" quality brand like Panasonic or Sony.

For big screens the top rated Which? TVs are the TX-37LZD70 (scores 75%) and the "power hungry" TH-42PX7 plasma (73%).

If you are planning to watch Freeview at this screen size you need to see it working - on the Samsung you've mentioned it looks fuzzy. SD generally may not look good at all especially if you are not far away enough from the screen.

I personally wouldn't touch Samsung with a bargepole but some of them do admittedly look fabulous until you turn them on. Other people have no problem with them.

Many people here are fans of (or in one or two notable cases dealers in) one brand or another. Also once people have made a major purchase like this they will tend to defend it if only to convince themselves they haven't made a blunder. It's like men and cars.

Trust your own eyes.

Well, my advice would be to completely ignore anything WHICH ? publish, particularly around Home Ent products.

They don't do full reviews, rely on the views of their members and certainly don't professionally benchmark products against each other.

A much better source of independent reviews would be the specialist magazines / websites e.g. Homecinemachoice.com, What Hifi etc - they test products rigourously against their equivalents and usually have benchmark tests as well - if they say a TV has a poor picture, they'll explain why a product isn't as good as an alternative.

Samsung, by and large, produce some very good televisions, which seem to offer excellent value for money - usually much cheaper than a Sony or Panasonic
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Old 28-08-2008, 22:25
nancyboy
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Which? does not rely on members' views. They have been testing TVs since 1957 and have one of the most rigorous methodologies in the world (FAR more rigorous than typical websites/magazines), as follows: 

LCD and plasma TVs: How we test

More LCD and plasma TVs tested by Which?
Which? now tests LCD and plasma TVs almost every month, reviewing 120 a year and covering nearly all the best-selling models – four times as many as in 2005.

Each LCD and plasma TV is put through an extraordinary six-week test - a mixture of expert panel assessments and technical laboratory testing - scrutinising everything from picture and sound quality, to energy efficiency and ease of use.

New test results and reviews of all the latest LCD and plasma TVs will be added to Which? Online every month.

LCD and plasma TV picture quality

A screen test in progress
As well as subjecting LCD and plasma TVs to the Which? technical tests, we use an independent expert viewing panel to assess picture quality under the same conditions in a dimmed, tungsten-lit room.

Brightness and contrast levels are set as equally as possible and the LCD and plasma TVs all receive the same-quality picture signal. The same experts take part each time, and we conceal the brand names.

We show a test card and eight different video clips – each helps the experts assess a different aspect of picture quality, eg a moving train helps highlight problems with panning and movement. We also view the LCD and plasma TVs in HD mode via satellite and have now added a test sequence for high-definition DVD players too.

Each image is awarded an individual score, and each LCD and plasma TV an overall picture score. Picture quality accounts for 40% of the overall test score.

Sound quality test - LCD and plasma TVs
The Which? tests use a similar mix of technical measurements and expert opinion to assess each LCD and plasma TV's sound quality.

Our experts listen to, and score, male and female voices, classical music, pop music, jazz and a TV drama under controlled conditions. Benchmark samples from previous Which? tests are used to ensure continuity.

Technical assessments include measuring the characteristic background noise (e.g. a low-level buzzing) and the maximum sound levels from the internal speakers. Sound quality accounts for 20% of the overall score for each LCD and plasma TV.


Testing the flat panel TVs
LCD and plasma TV ease of use test
Is the instruction manual as clear as the picture? Our ease-of-use experts assess each LCD and plasma TV according to a variety of realistic everyday scenarios. Ease of use accounts for 20% of the overall score.

Setting-up LCD and plasma TVs
This involves setting-up the TV for the first time, connecting up all the cables and tuning it in. All the LCD and plasma TVs in this review tune themselves, so you don’t have to fiddle around looking for the best reception.

Everyday use
You shouldn’t have to get out the instruction manual to switch the telly on and off, change channel or use the EPG. We make sure everything is as straightforward as it should be.

Advanced use
Assessments include adjustment of picture settings, making recordings via the EPG and setting the child-lock. The design of the on-screen menu systems are crucial.

LCD and plasma TV controls
You’ve checked behind the sofa but still no luck. There’s nothing for it, you’re going to have to use your LCD or plasma TV without the remote control. This nightmare scenario is this basis for our experts’ assessment of the front-panel controls. Common problems we encounter include:

Poorly-written and confusing instruction manuals.
Cluttered and poorly laid-out remote controls with hard and unresponsive buttons.
Sockets to the rear and underneath the LCD or plasma TV. Tricky to access – unless the telly is wall-mounted.
Advanced options often hidden deep inside poorly structured on-screen menus.
Confusing and slow-to-scroll EPGs.
LCD and plasma TV power consumption

All our TVs are rated for energy efficiency
Modern LCD and plasma TVs can be a drain on the environment and on your wallet. Which? tests the power consumption of each LCD and plasma TV in a variety of viewing modes and estimates the annual running costs. TVs that guzzle power are marked down overall.

Which? experts helped establish the latest international standards for measuring LCD and plasma TV energy consumption and we use these as the basis for our tests. Using standardised video footage power consumption readings are taken in 16:9 (widescreen) mode with the TV settings as delivered.

However, we actually exceed the minimum standard and take further readings for each LCD and plasma TV while using a moving test pattern. We also check everything in 4:3 (old box shape) mode and then do the whole test again, using the optimum picture settings as selected by our expert viewing panel. We then take measurements five minutes and two hours after switching into standby.

To assess the efficiency of any power-saving light sensor we take measurements in three typical living-room environments; bright daylight, dimly lit and, for horror movie fans, in the dark.

Our experts have found that adjusting the settings (see ideal settings for each LCD and plasma TV tested) can reduce power usage considerably. Power use accounts for 10% of the total test score.

Feature check for LCD and plasma TVs
Which? does a full feature check on each LCD and plasma TV – but goes well beyond just ticking a box for every socket found. Our tests often reveal some hidden functionality and nasty surprises.

For instance, many LCD and plasma Vs come with a digital audio out socket, however digital surround-sound on Freeview is virtually non-existent, so to make use of the socket, surround-sound signals from other pieces of equipment (like DVD players or Sky boxes) have to be channelled through the TV via HDMI. But this handy trick only works on some LCD and plasma TV models.

Scart sockets on widescreen LCD and plasma TVs usually support auto-format switching – eg showing standard (4:3) broadcasts with black bands on either side, so the images aren't stretched out of proportion. We check for this and find some models don’t automatically switch correctly.

When adjusting your LCD or plasma TV for the perfect picture, you may want to tweak the settings differently for Freeview or DVD. Which? tests whether different picture and sound settings can be ‘remembered’ by the tuner, Scart and HDMI sockets.

Features account for 10% of the total test score.

LCD and plasma TV evaluations
Once we have all our test results in, we evaluate the data to determine the total test score for each LCD and plasma TV. Currently 40% of the total test score is awarded to picture quality, 20% to sound, 20% to ease of use, 10% features and 10% power use
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Old 28-08-2008, 22:50
Nigel Goodwin
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Which? does not rely on members' views. They have been testing TVs since 1957 and have one of the most rigorous methodologies in the world (FAR more rigorous than typical websites/magazines)
Sorry, but that doesn't impress me in the slightest - anyone can talk a good story.

Which magazines wonderful TV testing claimed about colour TV's that one in six 'smoked' and one in twenty 'EXPLODED' - anyone ever seen a TV 'explode'?

I rarely see Which magazine, but on the odd occasions I do it doesn't make me want to rush out and subscribe.
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Old 28-08-2008, 22:53
AlanO
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,901
Which? does not rely on members' views. They have been testing TVs since 1957 and have one of the most rigorous methodologies in the world (FAR more rigorous than typical websites/magazines), as follows: 

LCD and plasma TVs: How we test

More LCD and plasma TVs tested by Which?
Which? now tests LCD and plasma TVs almost every month, reviewing 120 a year and covering nearly all the best-selling models – four times as many as in 2005.

Each LCD and plasma TV is put through an extraordinary six-week test - a mixture of expert panel assessments and technical laboratory testing - scrutinising everything from picture and sound quality, to energy efficiency and ease of use.

New test results and reviews of all the latest LCD and plasma TVs will be added to Which? Online every month.

LCD and plasma TV picture quality

A screen test in progress
As well as subjecting LCD and plasma TVs to the Which? technical tests, we use an independent expert viewing panel to assess picture quality under the same conditions in a dimmed, tungsten-lit room.

Brightness and contrast levels are set as equally as possible and the LCD and plasma TVs all receive the same-quality picture signal. The same experts take part each time, and we conceal the brand names.

We show a test card and eight different video clips – each helps the experts assess a different aspect of picture quality, eg a moving train helps highlight problems with panning and movement. We also view the LCD and plasma TVs in HD mode via satellite and have now added a test sequence for high-definition DVD players too.

Each image is awarded an individual score, and each LCD and plasma TV an overall picture score. Picture quality accounts for 40% of the overall test score.

Sound quality test - LCD and plasma TVs
The Which? tests use a similar mix of technical measurements and expert opinion to assess each LCD and plasma TV's sound quality.

Our experts listen to, and score, male and female voices, classical music, pop music, jazz and a TV drama under controlled conditions. Benchmark samples from previous Which? tests are used to ensure continuity.

Technical assessments include measuring the characteristic background noise (e.g. a low-level buzzing) and the maximum sound levels from the internal speakers. Sound quality accounts for 20% of the overall score for each LCD and plasma TV.


Testing the flat panel TVs
LCD and plasma TV ease of use test
Is the instruction manual as clear as the picture? Our ease-of-use experts assess each LCD and plasma TV according to a variety of realistic everyday scenarios. Ease of use accounts for 20% of the overall score.

Setting-up LCD and plasma TVs
This involves setting-up the TV for the first time, connecting up all the cables and tuning it in. All the LCD and plasma TVs in this review tune themselves, so you don’t have to fiddle around looking for the best reception.

Everyday use
You shouldn’t have to get out the instruction manual to switch the telly on and off, change channel or use the EPG. We make sure everything is as straightforward as it should be.

Advanced use
Assessments include adjustment of picture settings, making recordings via the EPG and setting the child-lock. The design of the on-screen menu systems are crucial.

LCD and plasma TV controls
You’ve checked behind the sofa but still no luck. There’s nothing for it, you’re going to have to use your LCD or plasma TV without the remote control. This nightmare scenario is this basis for our experts’ assessment of the front-panel controls. Common problems we encounter include:

Poorly-written and confusing instruction manuals.
Cluttered and poorly laid-out remote controls with hard and unresponsive buttons.
Sockets to the rear and underneath the LCD or plasma TV. Tricky to access – unless the telly is wall-mounted.
Advanced options often hidden deep inside poorly structured on-screen menus.
Confusing and slow-to-scroll EPGs.
LCD and plasma TV power consumption

All our TVs are rated for energy efficiency
Modern LCD and plasma TVs can be a drain on the environment and on your wallet. Which? tests the power consumption of each LCD and plasma TV in a variety of viewing modes and estimates the annual running costs. TVs that guzzle power are marked down overall.

Which? experts helped establish the latest international standards for measuring LCD and plasma TV energy consumption and we use these as the basis for our tests. Using standardised video footage power consumption readings are taken in 16:9 (widescreen) mode with the TV settings as delivered.

However, we actually exceed the minimum standard and take further readings for each LCD and plasma TV while using a moving test pattern. We also check everything in 4:3 (old box shape) mode and then do the whole test again, using the optimum picture settings as selected by our expert viewing panel. We then take measurements five minutes and two hours after switching into standby.

To assess the efficiency of any power-saving light sensor we take measurements in three typical living-room environments; bright daylight, dimly lit and, for horror movie fans, in the dark.

Our experts have found that adjusting the settings (see ideal settings for each LCD and plasma TV tested) can reduce power usage considerably. Power use accounts for 10% of the total test score.

Feature check for LCD and plasma TVs
Which? does a full feature check on each LCD and plasma TV – but goes well beyond just ticking a box for every socket found. Our tests often reveal some hidden functionality and nasty surprises.

For instance, many LCD and plasma Vs come with a digital audio out socket, however digital surround-sound on Freeview is virtually non-existent, so to make use of the socket, surround-sound signals from other pieces of equipment (like DVD players or Sky boxes) have to be channelled through the TV via HDMI. But this handy trick only works on some LCD and plasma TV models.

Scart sockets on widescreen LCD and plasma TVs usually support auto-format switching – eg showing standard (4:3) broadcasts with black bands on either side, so the images aren't stretched out of proportion. We check for this and find some models don’t automatically switch correctly.

When adjusting your LCD or plasma TV for the perfect picture, you may want to tweak the settings differently for Freeview or DVD. Which? tests whether different picture and sound settings can be ‘remembered’ by the tuner, Scart and HDMI sockets.

Features account for 10% of the total test score.

LCD and plasma TV evaluations
Once we have all our test results in, we evaluate the data to determine the total test score for each LCD and plasma TV. Currently 40% of the total test score is awarded to picture quality, 20% to sound, 20% to ease of use, 10% features and 10% power use
Some of these tests aren't really relevant to anybody who's aiming for the highest quality sound / vision experience ie. power consumption or clarity of the manual. So the best set for sound picture could, in theory, come out mid-rank because it failed on more minor issues - the pro magazines would overlook something like that.

You are wrong about the member's feedback - it is part of the claims they make, particularly around reliability / back up service - whilst usually not disclosing the sample size - Very professional.....

In my experience the CA is aimed at your typical 'Guardian reader'.
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Old 28-08-2008, 23:05
AlanO
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I rarely see Which magazine, but on the odd occasions I do it doesn't make me want to rush out and subscribe.
Maybe they're getting so desperate for subscribers that Nancyboy is actually a CA employee trying to drum up new subscribers from this forum
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Old 29-08-2008, 10:25
Chorley Matt
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Some of these tests aren't really relevant to anybody who's aiming for the highest quality sound / vision experience ie. power consumption or clarity of the manual. So the best set for sound picture could, in theory, come out mid-rank because it failed on more minor issues - the pro magazines would overlook something like that.
I agree entirely AlanO. The allocation of importance seems unfairly weighted away from the most important aspects of the testing.

I would suggest Mr & Mrs Average (just using a TV on it's own with no external sound system) would be more likely to value:

Picture 60%
Sound 30%
Others 10%

FWIW, for me a display is just that - a display. I value picture at 100%, sound is irrelevant as it is handled by another set of components designed with that specific function in mind.
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Old 29-08-2008, 11:15
sancheeez
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Sorry, but that doesn't impress me in the slightest
... and (sorry nancyboy) regurgitating figures and quotes from a Which test ad nauseam on an online forum impresses me even less.

If the people asking the questions wanted a Which opinion, surely they'd buy the magazine (or subscibe to the website) rather than posting on an online forum?

I agree with the others, specialist forums and literature is a better source of info and opinion on AV gear and gadgets than a catch-all review magazine like Which. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that .....
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