EXTERNAL nte? what?!
So anyone could just walk into your garden and plug a phone into your nte5, and ring china?! lol
So anyone could just walk into your garden and plug a phone into your nte5, and ring china?! lol
External Wire
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There is nothing that says an NTE has to have a socket on it and it has to unlocked and available for access by all passers by.
to smiley, i actually meant the openreach branded internal nte5. however you are right, we are gradually moving over tot the external nte5(much like the states with their NID's).
basically this is a little grey box with a lid and has a yellow plug, which when removed isolates the house from the line. basically if you have this on the line you are expected to remove the plug whilsts the tests are done, and when we repair lines they will be repaired to this point(free of charge). any thing beyond this point becomes EU's resposibility.
at the mo these have been fitted on most new builds for about the last few months. it hasn't been decided on how they are to be situated on the rest of dwellings as this hasn't been agreed on yet.
for those concerned about people plugging a phone in, there is no socket in them just a fuse to seperate the 2 sides of the network.
if anyones bored more info at http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/news...gs/gen03407.do
basically this is a little grey box with a lid and has a yellow plug, which when removed isolates the house from the line. basically if you have this on the line you are expected to remove the plug whilsts the tests are done, and when we repair lines they will be repaired to this point(free of charge). any thing beyond this point becomes EU's resposibility.
at the mo these have been fitted on most new builds for about the last few months. it hasn't been decided on how they are to be situated on the rest of dwellings as this hasn't been agreed on yet.
for those concerned about people plugging a phone in, there is no socket in them just a fuse to seperate the 2 sides of the network.
if anyones bored more info at http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/news...gs/gen03407.do
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“to smiley, i actually meant the openreach branded internal nte5. however you are right, we are gradually moving over tot the external nte5(much like the states with their NID's).
basically this is a little grey box with a lid and has a yellow plug, which when removed isolates the house from the line. basically if you have this on the line you are expected to remove the plug whilsts the tests are done, and when we repair lines they will be repaired to this point(free of charge). any thing beyond this point becomes EU's resposibility. [/code]
at the mo these have been fitted on most new builds for about the last few months. it hasn't been decided on how they are to be situated on the rest of dwellings as this hasn't been agreed on yet.
for those concerned about people plugging a phone in, there is no socket in them just a fuse to seperate the 2 sides of the network.
if anyones bored more info at http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/news...gs/gen03407.do”
“to smiley, i actually meant the openreach branded internal nte5. however you are right, we are gradually moving over tot the external nte5(much like the states with their NID's).
basically this is a little grey box with a lid and has a yellow plug, which when removed isolates the house from the line. basically if you have this on the line you are expected to remove the plug whilsts the tests are done, and when we repair lines they will be repaired to this point(free of charge). any thing beyond this point becomes EU's resposibility. [/code]
at the mo these have been fitted on most new builds for about the last few months. it hasn't been decided on how they are to be situated on the rest of dwellings as this hasn't been agreed on yet.
for those concerned about people plugging a phone in, there is no socket in them just a fuse to seperate the 2 sides of the network.
if anyones bored more info at http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/news...gs/gen03407.do”
ohhhhh I think ive got one of these on the front of my property! I wondered what the pointless grey box thing was for! its not a newbuild, but a new line (a few months old)
So if there was ever a fault with the line then Id have to open it up and disconnect the fuse.
I still have a regular NET5 socket, just the othere side of the grey external box.
I wonder then, what would happen if there was a fault with the NTE5 inside my home? would they say nope, our responsibility ends at the external nte box, and leave me to get someone to repair it?
Originally Posted by r_mitchell85:
“ohhhhh I think ive got one of these on the front of my property! I wondered what the pointless grey box thing was for! its not a newbuild, but a new line (a few months old)
So if there was ever a fault with the line then Id have to open it up and disconnect the fuse.
I still have a regular NET5 socket, just the othere side of the grey external box.
I wonder then, what would happen if there was a fault with the NTE5 inside my home? would they say nope, our responsibility ends at the external nte box, and leave me to get someone to repair it?”
“ohhhhh I think ive got one of these on the front of my property! I wondered what the pointless grey box thing was for! its not a newbuild, but a new line (a few months old)
So if there was ever a fault with the line then Id have to open it up and disconnect the fuse.
I still have a regular NET5 socket, just the othere side of the grey external box.
I wonder then, what would happen if there was a fault with the NTE5 inside my home? would they say nope, our responsibility ends at the external nte box, and leave me to get someone to repair it?”
they have only gone on newbuilds at the mo, and are currently un-available for regular engineers to order as stores. chances are you have a standard external junction box, in which case we would still maintain upto the nte5.
the new ones, have basically a flip open cover to gain access to the inside. i think there is a screw on the bottom right(have only seen 2 in the wild, and have a memory like a fish).
but if you do have one fitted then yes our responsibility ends at that box.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“they have only gone on newbuilds at the mo, and are currently un-available for regular engineers to order as stores. chances are you have a standard external junction box, in which case we would still maintain upto the nte5.
the new ones, have basically a flip open cover to gain access to the inside. i think there is a screw on the bottom right(have only seen 2 in the wild, and have a memory like a fish).
but if you do have one fitted then yes our responsibility ends at that box.”
“they have only gone on newbuilds at the mo, and are currently un-available for regular engineers to order as stores. chances are you have a standard external junction box, in which case we would still maintain upto the nte5.
the new ones, have basically a flip open cover to gain access to the inside. i think there is a screw on the bottom right(have only seen 2 in the wild, and have a memory like a fish).
but if you do have one fitted then yes our responsibility ends at that box.”
ah its probably just a normal junction box then. its just a greenish greyish box, with "bt" written on it. I dunno why they put a junction box up. why not just have the wire going straight into the mastersocket like normal?
I have a grey box where a black cable runs in and a white cable runs out. I asked the Openreach engineer when he came here what the purpose of the box is. He said the black cable has a grease in it what protects against water damage while the white cable running out has a chalk in it and protects against fire so the white cable runs to property.
The shape of the box is like a triangle cut in half horizontally if that helps.
The shape of the box is like a triangle cut in half horizontally if that helps.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“basically, your ring wire acts as a radio aerial, and as a result picks up all the EMI and RFI thats present in the house........just ensure you have disconnected the wire from all the sockets.”
“basically, your ring wire acts as a radio aerial, and as a result picks up all the EMI and RFI thats present in the house........just ensure you have disconnected the wire from all the sockets.”
Haven't disconnected the ring wire on any extensions yet - just happy that adsl working agin. Will disconnect wire at the next available opportunity.
MilnrowLad
Originally Posted by kosmos5457:
“I have a grey box where a black cable runs in and a white cable runs out. I asked the Openreach engineer when he came here what the purpose of the box is. He said the black cable has a grease in it what protects against water damage while the white cable running out has a chalk in it and protects against fire so the white cable runs to property.
The shape of the box is like a triangle cut in half horizontally if that helps.”
“I have a grey box where a black cable runs in and a white cable runs out. I asked the Openreach engineer when he came here what the purpose of the box is. He said the black cable has a grease in it what protects against water damage while the white cable running out has a chalk in it and protects against fire so the white cable runs to property.
The shape of the box is like a triangle cut in half horizontally if that helps.”
thats just the standard bt66(external joint box), there is no chalk on the internal cable, hasn't been for a long time. the box is there as we are not aloud to run UG cable(grease filled) and external cable(dropwire) inside properties for long distances(2M's max) due to fire regs. is also so that if there is ever a fault we can use it as a test point. intime theses will be replaced with the external NTE.
I think all your extensions are run from this external NTE?
If you have an external NTE fitted, can you run some cabling to an NTE5 and have your extensions from that? I'd like to have the test socket so I can do a quiet line test etc. when a fault pops up...
If you have an external NTE fitted, can you run some cabling to an NTE5 and have your extensions from that? I'd like to have the test socket so I can do a quiet line test etc. when a fault pops up...
Originally Posted by 5M1L3Y:
“I think all your extensions are run from this external NTE?
If you have an external NTE fitted, can you run some cabling to an NTE5 and have your extensions from that? I'd like to have the test socket so I can do a quiet line test etc. when a fault pops up...”
“I think all your extensions are run from this external NTE?
If you have an external NTE fitted, can you run some cabling to an NTE5 and have your extensions from that? I'd like to have the test socket so I can do a quiet line test etc. when a fault pops up...”
the EU's connector on these external nte's are a push down IDC type, as a result i would only recommend terminating one wire on them. usually when they are put on they do sometimes fit a nte5 on the first socket and connect the rest of the build to the faceplate of this. though this is not in our re-mit.
Originally Posted by milnrow_lad:
“Haven't disconnected the ring wire on any extensions yet - just happy that adsl working agin. Will disconnect wire at the next available opportunity.
MilnrowLad”
“Haven't disconnected the ring wire on any extensions yet - just happy that adsl working agin. Will disconnect wire at the next available opportunity.
MilnrowLad
”
Since last Friday the adsl has worked ok....until last night...
In frustration, I disconnected the ring wire from all extensions, and have disconnected from the master socket faceplate all wires going to any other extension.
In short all that remains now is the wire from the master socket to the extension where the broadband is plugged in. I took out the connections at each end and remade them (2 wires in master and 2 wires in extension ensuring that connection 2 was made to connection 2 and same for 3).
Still no joy - there most be something because it hasn't totally dropped out, the page starts to load and then fails to load / time out. Have tried different adsl filters, 3 different computers, new router...........
I still reckon that there is something wrong with Master Socket or the wire to the extension (this isn't damaged as far as I can tell). I ran out of time last night.
Does anybody have any further suggestions?? I am pulling out the last of my hair at the moment.
MilnrowLad
Originally Posted by milnrow_lad:
“Since last Friday the adsl has worked ok....until last night...
In short all that remains now is the wire from the master socket to the extension where the broadband is plugged in. I took out the connections at each end and remade them (2 wires in master and 2 wires in extension ensuring that connection 2 was made to connection 2 and same for 3).
MilnrowLad”
“Since last Friday the adsl has worked ok....until last night...
In short all that remains now is the wire from the master socket to the extension where the broadband is plugged in. I took out the connections at each end and remade them (2 wires in master and 2 wires in extension ensuring that connection 2 was made to connection 2 and same for 3).
MilnrowLad
”
Of course I meant connections to 2 and 5 (not 3 as above!)
MilnrowLad :sleep:
Could you run a cable from the master to the extension temporarily to rule out a cable fault? That'd be my next move.
Originally Posted by Lurch:
“Could you run a cable from the master to the extension temporarily to rule out a cable fault? That'd be my next move.”
“Could you run a cable from the master to the extension temporarily to rule out a cable fault? That'd be my next move.”
Thats one option, a quicker one I can try tonight when I get home is to disconnect the last extension wire from the master socket and try it in (1) the Master Socket and (2) in the test socket of the master socket.
That should then prove / eliminate the Master Socket faulty theory.
What is frustrating is the intermittent nature of it all, why it should work ok in the master test socket for several days last week and then continue to work on the extension for several more days before going intermittent again last night.
Nothing electrical has changed, all devices (phones / fax / printers / other modems all physically removed / wires removed)....Strange......
Will try all suggestions and report back - probably after the weekend.
Failing all that I will be phoning my broadband supplier to raise a fault with BT.
MilnrowLad
Quote:
“What is frustrating is the intermittent nature of it all, why it should work ok in the master test socket for several days last week and then continue to work on the extension for several more days before going intermittent again last night.”
“What is frustrating is the intermittent nature of it all, why it should work ok in the master test socket for several days last week and then continue to work on the extension for several more days before going intermittent again last night.”
I had intermittent issues like this, the phone calls were weak and crackled (intermittently) also my BB connection would drop and not re sync or the speed would go down from 3000K to as little as 256K.
Raised a call via ISP, BT said the cables in BT Green Cab up the road were in poor condition and they re terminated them. I had the problem again and this time BT re terminated the cable on the telegraph pole.
Have you tried a quiet line test? dial 17070 option 2, see if you can hear any noise when you have the fault with your BB. When fault is occurring do the test at the extension socket and at the master socket with extension cables removed.
When you get the fault raised with BT, it is very unlikely any BT line test will find a problem, all BT are worried about is the ability of the test equipment to see your NTE and not much else.
Dan.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“basically, your ring wire acts as a radio aerial, and as a result picks up all the EMI and RFI thats present in the house. this plays havoc with the adaptive rate b/band("upto 8Mb"), doesn't really have much effect on the fixed rate.
Just ensure you have disconnected the wire from all the sockets.”
“basically, your ring wire acts as a radio aerial, and as a result picks up all the EMI and RFI thats present in the house. this plays havoc with the adaptive rate b/band("upto 8Mb"), doesn't really have much effect on the fixed rate.
Just ensure you have disconnected the wire from all the sockets.”
Further update - the internet connection ground to a halt again last night
Observations:
It was wet and windy for most of yesterday
The router was reporting a download noise margin of 11dB and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
Now, this morning it is working again: Observations:
It has stopped raining overnight
The router reports a download noise margin at 25dB, and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
The attenuation levels as reported by the router were the same last night as they are now.
Can someone tell me what a typical noise margin figure should be (is a higher number good or bad? - since measured in dB - which is a log scale , an overnight change from 11 to 25 is a huge jump!)
Is there a poor connection external to the property? Water? We're on overhead cable to the property from a nearby pole, the wire was renewed 2/3 years ago from the pole to an external JB on the house - but the wire from the JB on the house to the first BT connection box inside the property is still the old wire - the wire looks as though it has seen better days! Could it have become porous and allow water in?
I've logged a call last night with Virgin Media who couldn't resolve the issue - supposed to phone me back today
MilnrowLad
Originally Posted by milnrow_lad:
“Further update - the internet connection ground to a halt again last night
Observations:
It was wet and windy for most of yesterday
The router was reporting a download noise margin of 11dB and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
Now, this morning it is working again: Observations:
It has stopped raining overnight
The router reports a download noise margin at 25dB, and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
The attenuation levels as reported by the router were the same last night as they are now.
Can someone tell me what a typical noise margin figure should be (is a higher number good or bad? - since measured in dB - which is a log scale , an overnight change from 11 to 25 is a huge jump!)
Is there a poor connection external to the property? Water? We're on overhead cable to the property from a nearby pole, the wire was renewed 2/3 years ago from the pole to an external JB on the house - but the wire from the JB on the house to the first BT connection box inside the property is still the old wire - the wire looks as though it has seen better days! Could it have become porous and allow water in?
I've logged a call last night with Virgin Media who couldn't resolve the issue - supposed to phone me back today
MilnrowLad”
“Further update - the internet connection ground to a halt again last night
Observations:
It was wet and windy for most of yesterday
The router was reporting a download noise margin of 11dB and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
Now, this morning it is working again: Observations:
It has stopped raining overnight
The router reports a download noise margin at 25dB, and an upstream noise margin of 16dB
The attenuation levels as reported by the router were the same last night as they are now.
Can someone tell me what a typical noise margin figure should be (is a higher number good or bad? - since measured in dB - which is a log scale , an overnight change from 11 to 25 is a huge jump!)
Is there a poor connection external to the property? Water? We're on overhead cable to the property from a nearby pole, the wire was renewed 2/3 years ago from the pole to an external JB on the house - but the wire from the JB on the house to the first BT connection box inside the property is still the old wire - the wire looks as though it has seen better days! Could it have become porous and allow water in?
I've logged a call last night with Virgin Media who couldn't resolve the issue - supposed to phone me back today
MilnrowLad”
the noise margin depends on the type of adsl service your on. fixed rate i.e 1/5, 1, 2Mb then the higher the margin the better(this is what i suspect your on). adaptive rate("upto 8") the closer to 6Db the better.
the old cable on the outside, if it's grey(sometimes black, and very rare blue) flat and 2 core then yes very very very prone to water ingress as the insulation is broken down by UV. if yours is buggered you will usually see brown marks at the points where it passes under a cleat or at sharp turns in the cable run. other than that it's probably a wet joint, but these take longer to dry out. so your number one suspect is the old cable on wall. time to get the ladders out me thinks.
would come up for a noisy but am south of the ring road sorry.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“the noise margin depends on the type of adsl service your on. fixed rate i.e 1/5, 1, 2Mb then the higher the margin the better(this is what i suspect your on). adaptive rate("upto 8") the closer to 6Db the better.
the old cable on the outside, if it's grey.......
would come up for a noisy but am south of the ring road sorry.”
“the noise margin depends on the type of adsl service your on. fixed rate i.e 1/5, 1, 2Mb then the higher the margin the better(this is what i suspect your on). adaptive rate("upto 8") the closer to 6Db the better.
the old cable on the outside, if it's grey.......
would come up for a noisy but am south of the ring road sorry.”
I'm on a fixed speed of 0.5MB (told can't get anything better due to distance from Rochdale exchange plus overhead cables etc)
The cable is grey in colour, some cleats are missing and yes there are signs of brown (rust?) and looks to be in poor condition - Its got to be favourite for a fault - But I am correct in saying that I can't touch this 'cause it belongs to BT?
Openreachpeep - There's a real indian curry in it for you to venture north of the M60!!
(we're from the Indian Sub Continent so I can guarantee that it would be authentic!)MilnrowLad
Originally Posted by milnrow_lad:
“I'm on a fixed speed of 0.5MB (told can't get anything better due to distance from Rochdale exchange plus overhead cables etc)
The cable is grey in colour, some cleats are missing and yes there are signs of brown (rust?) and looks to be in poor condition - Its got to be favourite for a fault - But I am correct in saying that I can't touch this 'cause it belongs to BT?
Openreachpeep - There's a real indian curry in it for you to venture north of the M60!! (we're from the Indian Sub Continent so I can guarantee that it would be authentic!)
MilnrowLad”
“I'm on a fixed speed of 0.5MB (told can't get anything better due to distance from Rochdale exchange plus overhead cables etc)
The cable is grey in colour, some cleats are missing and yes there are signs of brown (rust?) and looks to be in poor condition - Its got to be favourite for a fault - But I am correct in saying that I can't touch this 'cause it belongs to BT?
Openreachpeep - There's a real indian curry in it for you to venture north of the M60!!
(we're from the Indian Sub Continent so I can guarantee that it would be authentic!)MilnrowLad
”
you will be surprised with just a little "bending" how easily that cable breaks at the rust points
. obviously you will lose service for a few days, but atleast it will get replaced.sadly the managers are on witch hunts at the mo, and anybody spotted off area get's burnt at the stake. plus i get easily lost any where above cheetham hill.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“you will be surprised with just a little "bending" how easily that cable breaks at the rust points. obviously you will lose service for a few days, but atleast it will get replaced.
sadly the managers are on witch hunts at the mo, and anybody spotted off area get's burnt at the stake. plus i get easily lost any where above cheetham hill.”
“you will be surprised with just a little "bending" how easily that cable breaks at the rust points
. obviously you will lose service for a few days, but atleast it will get replaced.sadly the managers are on witch hunts at the mo, and anybody spotted off area get's burnt at the stake. plus i get easily lost any where above cheetham hill.
”
Thanks for the advice Openreachpeep.
Having worked on project management of exchange upgrades for the BT21CN fiasco (sorry project) in the northwest, I can understand. Sadly I never had contact with the front line troops, only the managers!.
MilnrowLad
Originally Posted by milnrow_lad:
“Thanks for the advice Openreachpeep.
Having worked on project management of exchange upgrades for the BT21CN fiasco (sorry project) in the northwest, I can understand. Sadly I never had contact with the front line troops, only the managers!.
MilnrowLad”
“Thanks for the advice Openreachpeep.
Having worked on project management of exchange upgrades for the BT21CN fiasco (sorry project) in the northwest, I can understand. Sadly I never had contact with the front line troops, only the managers!.
MilnrowLad”
forgot to say though, if it does accidently get bent to breaking point, try and only do the one strand(leg) as it looks more like natural wear and tear.
Originally Posted by openreachpeep:
“forgot to say though, if it does accidently get bent to breaking point, try and only do the one strand(leg) as it looks more like natural wear and tear.”
“forgot to say though, if it does accidently get bent to breaking point, try and only do the one strand(leg) as it looks more like natural wear and tear.”
Of course, isn't that how failure normally starts
Finally got Virgin to say that there could indeed be a fault external to the property.
This after phoning twice on Wednesday, 1 call on Thursday, 1 call on Friday and 2 calls on Saturday. Total time on phone 2 hours plus!
Virgin were supposed to call back giving me an update on Thursday, Friday and Saturday - they didn't phone back at all.
Only my persistence on Saturday, and point of nearly shouting down the phone did I get a second line manager who could raise a fault with BT Wholesale.
Could take up to 5 working days I was told!!! We wait and see. I don't have much confidence given the intermediate nature of the fault.
The weathers fine, warm and no rain - the internet appears to be working nearly normally!
Next - time for the grey external wire to go open circuit
MilnrowLad
This after phoning twice on Wednesday, 1 call on Thursday, 1 call on Friday and 2 calls on Saturday. Total time on phone 2 hours plus!
Virgin were supposed to call back giving me an update on Thursday, Friday and Saturday - they didn't phone back at all.
Only my persistence on Saturday, and point of nearly shouting down the phone did I get a second line manager who could raise a fault with BT Wholesale.
Could take up to 5 working days I was told!!! We wait and see. I don't have much confidence given the intermediate nature of the fault.
The weathers fine, warm and no rain - the internet appears to be working nearly normally!
Next - time for the grey external wire to go open circuit
MilnrowLad
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