It will be interesting to see how this ALW show comes across on radio 2 which it was untimately recorded for. I suppose using the Last Night at the Proms rig makes sense & gets two events out of it. Having seen the guest list I must admit (like one of the journos said) it looked a bit like wheeling out the reality tv artists. Too many in my view but no doubt done as they know these artists can get people through the door & it is about making cash.

I was actually surprised when I heard ALW on This Morning talking about this show. It seemed to me that he was making every effort to distance himself from it. Even saying I'm going to America so won't be back until the day of the event!!!

I think there is a bit of getting carried away at how prestigious this event was. An appearance the night before at the Last Night of the Proms would be another matter entirely.

Going back to the topic of this thread as of course we will all have different opinions from different parts of the park - there were after all 20,000 people - the major gripe from people at the back was people standing at the front!

But Proms in the Park would indeed be a landmark event - not sure this is for Rhydian but certainly G4 managed it and Rhydian will have difficulty matching their continued success of 3 albums and was it 4 or 5 tours - if the economic climate continues as it is but who knows he might produce a stunning album?

As far as getting carried away I agree it was not that major - think the Don Black event at the Palladium was far better but maybe not too many people on here were aware of it?

It is always the same gripe at these events together with too much screaming so that you can't hear!! That's why I personally don't think they are the best for hearing the music. That is why I said interesting to hear how it comes across on radio 2 where it will be totally about the vocal.

It's going to depend on what route Rhydian takes in relation to Last Night of the Proms but he does have the talent to appear at some stage in the future. The whole economic situation is going to have a massive impact on the music industry/theatre so who knows what is going to happen. Same for anyone really.

I heard Don Black Show on FNIMN on radio 2. Superb show & a 'good' balance of talent across the years.

I also felt some of Rhydian's hand/ body movements rather strange, especially as he walked on the stage with his hand up to his face, but feel he was really acting the part - coming on stage in character - he was visualising the scene in his mind and enacting the story he had to tell. He was not Rhydian - he was the Phantom. An awkward and tortured soul. If he had stood stock still and just given it a straight presentation, he would have been accused of not putting enough passion and interpretion into it or being wooden. Having watched many of the you tube performances that night - most of the actors did the same - some were lucky to have had someone to share the singing with others so their acting did not look quite so out of the blue. It must be really diffcult to sing a musical theatre song when you are not singing it as part of a play - what do you do - sing it like its a straight song (like Jodie and Joss did) or sing it like you are taking an extract from a play performance (like Jessie or Rhydian, the cast of phantom did) which may come over as OTT on an open air concert stage. Personally, having been a follower of ALW's BBC series, I think he would have preferred the songs being acted out, after all they were singing it as a celebration to him and his contibution to musical theatre, and from what I've heard from people who spoke to ALW after the show - he was very pleased indeed with Rhydian's performance.
I have listened to music of the night several times now and if you just listen to the music, (with the video part out of view) I find it to be a very haunting rendition that does not fail to send shivers down my spine and legs as I sense the complete habitation he gives the music. You only have to see the conductor's face at the end to see he was massively impressed - certainly on the clips I have seen of other performers, the conductor is not seen to have given such a positive reaction.

So...will Rhydian be a success? Depends on what success is. If it is that people sit up and take note (whether good or bad) I would say a resounding "yes" - he is the only x factor runner up I know of whose name is still being referred to in the press nearly a year on (and has been throughout the year) - he has made a huge impact. Will he sell lots of records - most probably, but I do not believe success is purely to be seen through number 1's for weeks on end. I feel Simon's statement that Rhydian will make about 20 million in his first 5 years and Leon will have a good year, spoke volumes. Simon knows when he someone has potential. Afterall - Rhydian would not have invited himself to sing in front of prince charles, prince william or ALW, and those are names that even Simon Cowell will have no influence on. He was asked because he has that certain something that makes people sit up and take note, as well as talent. Do we know of any other x factor runner ups who have acheived this before any of the pre- album publicity has started and has yet to have a national Tv appearance?
To have success, the person does not have to be to everyone's taste. I, and plenty of others I know can not abide Leona's songs, but that has not stopped her being a massive success. What matters is that he generates discussion and debate - people take notice. That is the sign of an enduring personality.

I was at Hyde Park but sitting towards the back.

So perhaps a slightly different viewpoint. I watched the reaction of those sitting, picnicking and chatting. They seemed to be there for the concert itself, rather than supporting a particular artist.

From almost the first note he sung, everyone went quiet and just sat listening. There was enthusiastic applause during the musical interludes and even people standing and cheering at the end. We had little visual contact, the screens were a long way away, just perfectly balanced sound, with no distraction from audience call outs.

Very easy to criticise his lack of stage experience. But don't forget that this is a guy with no professional musical stage experience, except at uni - and he only graduated a year ago. And those at the front have mentioned how nervous he was - hands shaking as he came out on stage.
He is very young - five years younger than the current Phantom - who was the youngest ever when he took on the part.

Watching the vids I agree - he needs training in movement. But vocally, he was superb. He more than held his own against trained and experienced West End stars.

Looking on YT - searching Hyde Park for this week, his vids seem to be the most popular. So - marmite or not, perhaps he has caught the popular imagination.

I too look forward to hearing the radio broadcast - and his album. So much depends on how he is promoted over the next few months. But his potential, IMHO - is enormous.
He is far more than a peroxide quiff and some awkward hand gestures. A superb voice to enjoy for many years to come. I admit to being prejudiced though!

As I said a bit of perspective is required. Andrew Johnson sang - the young guy who was on BGT. Surely he is no different - in fact less time since he was a runner up in a reality tv show.

Andrew Jackson did indeed sing - and it was a great crowd pleaser. But the real applause should go to the unacknowledged soprano who backed him, especially towards the end when she took the main musical lead, leaving the chubby little school boy to try and harmonise with her....but failing dismally. Long overdue puberty kicking in perhaps?
Whatever, it was a triumph of sound engineering.

But criticising his performance is like kicking a puppy. Tempting, but not acceptable.

The point being made was the fact that Rhydian was asked as an artist who isn't an established - yet. Andrew Johnson is in exactly the same position. Until I hear the show in October on radio 2 I personally can't comment on the vocal performance of each act. If he was a bad as you say there can hardly have been much assessment as to the quality of the performers in advance of the show. A list of reality tv acts & who are available seems to be at the core of it all so that they can get bums of seats or deckchairs in this case!!

If we are putting things into perspective ... Elaine Paige also sang ... and you can't get a more famous or bigger West End leading lady than her ..... add Ruthie Henshall and John Barrowman to the mix and we're not talking of a show full of reality TV runners up ...

Yes there were a lot of reality show contestants on the bill but there were also well established Musical Theatre stars and many current leading men and ladies.

People may not consider this to be the most prestigious musical event to be invited to perform at but it's better than gigging for a crowd at a race course which seems to be what most of the x-factor runners up .. and indeed the x factor winner have had to do.

excluding Andrew Johnston who I assume was invited because they needed a choirboy to sing Pie jesu .....all the other reality tv people all came from ALW's BBC shows....which is part of his career now and it was all about ALW


plus this concert was put on by the BBC so reminding the audience of the talent on the shows may have been to their advantage

It was important as all the musical theatre hobnobs were there , Nigel Wright, ALW and Rhydian had a chance to perform for them

I've been reading a few other forums threads on the ALW event and I am sure this is not really the case but although this is an interesting topic for this forum it is not something to take anywhere else as being the most successful No 2 means nothing to the outside world!

G4 did a lot for X Factor - which they never got anything for - as they got a double platinum No1 album and took the flack from the music industry for 'just being a reality TV Act' but their continued success with live shows and further albums came with no support from Simon Cowell (quite the reverse as he was promoting Il Divo at their expense) and no further appearances on X Factor. They were not managed by Syco and were signed by another part of SonyBMG - so a £1m contract but that had to be paid back unlike the winners and they got an inexperienced management created by the show. They split and as it appears the only one who wants to continue is Jonathan Ansell who has gone off to another label - UCJ which has a totally different ethos with Crossover artists.

As far as musical theatre is concerned Rhydian needs to be very grateful to Lee Mead who has made it okay to win a reality show and take the lead in a West End show. So to ease his way forward it would be advantageous if both Lee and Jonathan Ansell continue their success as if either fail it will make his task all the more difficult?

So Rhydian already has lots of backroom advantages but it really depends on what SC sees as important - I suspect Rhydian will be marketed to the Il Divo sector - not classical but SCs version of Classical - very successful in the CD selling market (where Sony make money) but not in the Classical Music world - ID have never appeared at the Classical Brits for example.

Where this all goes who knows but do not think for one moment that Rhydian will take any priority in SCs mind - he has a show to promote in X Factor and that means the winner being successful otherwise what is the point? Plus he has another artist who also have a star baritone who will probably take precedence in any track selection.

The way music is making money or not making money is changing and you need to think about this - the traditional routes to success are changing. Sometimes its a case of be careful what you wish for, in others it is finding out what is important to you - fans want to see No 1's but perhaps an artist wants a long career which can mean all sorts of things but perhaps not great highs or great lows?

The ALW event did show that the marketing methods of ALW are to use reality TV to market his shows. He has always done things a little differently to other musical theatre folks - used to be releasing a 'hit' song by a popular artist of the time who did not go on to perform in the show - whether that was someone like Cliff (Phantom) or Boyzone (Whistle Down the Wind).

So I guess what I am saying - to be successful Rhydian does not need the others to fail quite the reverse - he needs to find his own unique way forward

Looking at the reviews of the ALW's party, most people agree that the vocal side of his performance was at least good if not excellent, but that the opinion is more divided about the visual side, in terms of his acting and his styling. His acting could be more subtle and but he will improve with time and won't be a problem for the album. His styling is but considering that Mr C's PR machine is involved, I can only assume that it is a good thing.

It also appears (but we never know what really happens) that his album has been well thought out, with big names involved, so from this point I assume that Mr C is behind him .

He will have to beat G4 to be the most successful runner-up, and in terms of UK sales it may be hard, but considering Simon's comments during the show last year and the investment that seems to have gone into the album, I guess that Simon will try to market him internationally.
So, overall, my answer to the OP is quite possible.

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Last edited by Chi : 18-09-2008 at 10:45

I think another point should be remembered in regard to any comparison between the success that G4 had and the potential success that Rhydian may acheive.

G4 were in the hands of Louis Walsh and did very well indeed. Simon Cowell then launched his own version with Il Divo who have also been extremely successful all over the World.

Rhydian has Simon Cowell as a very interested party in his career. I feel that this will be a very important asset in how Rhydian is launched and promoted both here and also all over the World.

Actually Il Divo were signed in December 2003 which is prior to G4's XF appearance. They were a group that SC put together. Apparently one of the reasons Simon didn't want G4 to win or allow them to be promoted overseas was he didn't want them competing with Il Divo.
It has been said they were only signed to Syco due to interest from other labels - not surprisingly the label Jon Ansell is with now.

I agree. Simon was really pushing for G4 in the early audition rounds but as soon as it came to the live shows he did nothing but criticise them though it was not helped that Louis made a few strange song selections for them. Simon was over harsh with them though but he never wanted them to win as he was too occupied with Il Divo and wanted them to corner the market. What G4 did after the show had finished was fantastic and the decision to release their CD just before Mothers Day was inspired at the time as most artists in their genre would normally release at Christmas and G4 proved that there was a huge market around Mothers Day for this sort of music which is a fact that was not lost on Cowell who released a number of X Factor related albums around this date in the years that followed. Jon Ansell has criticised the show a lot as G4 were not treated well afterwards by Cowell and he knows that the show puts the artists way down in the list of priorities.

Rhydian has also performed at a race course, hasn't he? I'm sure I read a while back that he appeared on the same bill as another X Factor runner-up, Ray Quinn, and I think Ben Mills was there too.

Yes he has ... if you read my post I never said he didn't ... I was stating how the ALW gig is a bit more prestigious than the usual gigs they book for x-factor runners up at racecourses. I'm grouping Rhydian with the others who have performed at racecourses.

ie ... it's a bigger gig for Rhydian to do that the bookings he's had to do so far and not the usual booking for an x-factor runner before they have released a CD or been promoted.

I think you've misread my post. I was responding to posts saying that the ALW gig was no big deal.

Sorry, I forgot Andrew was in it, although he has actually been on national TV outside of BGT quite a bit. I do feel sorry, though, for the unacknowledged choirgirl. Personally I feel a bit sorry for for ANdrew as well - cos there is no guarantee that he will come out of the voice breaking episode as a marketable singer and he risks being bullied even more if that happens.(completely off topic I know - but I felt utterly sorry for Farryl as she was so completely built up by Simon and she, like Andrew was so young - I hope she had the inner strength to come out feeling ok about herself).

Have just watched Michael Crawford's vesion of MOTN and he put in very similar arm movements to Rhydian - it just looks better because he has Christina and props to give it the context which Rhydian was trying to get people to grasp, which some clearly didn't grasp.

G4 were successful, and who knows whether Rhydian will match that or not. It is a different ball game now - they have become more astute at managing reality TV stars - look at the difference Rhydian and Same Difference are being treated compared to Ray and Ben where they had rushed out albums and, most unfairest of all, bought out on the same day - it was like they were still in the X factor competition.

Trying to work this one out! Don't quite understand why Mead and Ansell's success or failure should make any difference to Rhydian? Surely these are three very different performers, all with different strengths and style. They will succeed or fail on their individual talent.

Rhydian has expressed an interest in possibly working in the West End at a future point in his career, but for the moment, has been concentrating on live performances and his forthcoming album. His future path may be very different from Lee Mead. As for Ansell, is he working in the West End? Genuine question - as have only seen him at Hyde Park. Talented and a very pleasant tenor voice, but IMHO - very different to Rhydian - style and vocal range.

Hopeful all three of them will find continued success in different ways - but based on their individual talent - not their origins on TV shows.

I also don't get what Rhydian needs to thank Lee Mead and Jon Ansell for ..... from what I hear Lee Mead was already accepted as a leading man in the West End before he got the role of Joseph ... didn't he understudy the part of Raoul in POTO playing the part many times, so I don't see why people shouldn't accept him as Joseph just because he got the role due to winning a reality programme .... he'd already proved that he was capable of holding his own as a lead in a West End Show.

.... Of course there are the West End snobs who look down on reality show winners staring in WE shows, but I say if they can do the job and have the voice then good luck to them ... it's thier talent and ability to perform the role that should determine whether they are accepted or not, not whether they have come from a reality TV show.

I'm sure if they were rubbish in the role and people weren't prepared to pay to see them that their contracts would be ended.

Who knows what career path Rhydian is going to take, but if he want's to go into Musical Theatre and is offered a role and does it well I don't see what him comming off the back of a reality show has to do with it.

Reality shows may help you get a foot in the door and help to raise your profile in the media but if you haven't got the talent to succeed you're found out eventually.

My point about Lee's and Jonathan's success is because they have come to prominence through reality TV - which as you have said a lot of people have been very snobby about. Lee particularly has made it acceptable to have a very public audition on TV.

If you are new to all of this it will probably all seem very acceptable but outside of X Factor a lot of people have been more than condescending about employing people who have come to prominence this way - Michael Parkinson was very notable in saying he would never have one on his show.

G4 were never signed to Syco they were signed to another part of SonyBMG but as Cowell was the boss of all A&R across the company he was in a position to put the brakes on any time he chose.

Jonathan is in the middle of touring in The Mikado and is taking a show of opera classics around the country in November called A Night At The Opera which also includes other young operatic singers and ends up at the London Palladium. This Thurs - Sat he is performing at Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in Music on Fire - to something like 10,000 a throw.

It depends on what you meant by "all of this" .. are you refering to the world of show business or the world of musical theatre or what? .. I don't understand what "all of this" means. I've been a fan of Musical Theatre for years and have had many trips to see shows both in my local theatre and in the West End ... and yes I've come across people who look down on reality show contestants but I have also come across people who are happy to see a good performance no matter by what means the person has been cast in the role ... it's the performance that counts more than where the performer has come from. I would say for every director who wouldn't entertain a reality show contestant in one of their shows there will be plenty more who would be more than happy to do so as long as they are capable of carrying out the role well and I would think that the extra publicity gained from the TV show won't harm takings at the box office at all. If it was such a taboo thing to employ reality show people in shows then why do we see people like Brenda in Chicago, Ray Quinn in Grease, Cassie in Les Mis, Suzanne Shaw in Chicago and numerous other musicals? It can't be frowned upon by casting directors and producers is so many are being employed in these shows ..... Just looking at Broadway .. Fantasia was in the Colour Purple, Taylor Hicks was in Grease and Ace Young just started in Grease last week and his picture is all over Times Square on billboards.

Also, as to Michael Parkinson saying that he wouldn't have a reality show person on his show ..... If I recall Will Young has been a guest so Michael isn't being true to his word there ...lol


I don't really see how this relates to why Rhydian should be thankful to Jonathan ... By doing these things he's not making it acceptable for a reality show contestant to to be accepted in Musical Theatre ... Surely the show about opera classics and the Royal Military Academy thing is just him beeing booked to do what he was trained to do .. sing opera .. it has nothing to do with him being accepted for doing something that if he hadn't been on a reality show he wouldn't have gone on to do anyway .. and if we're talking about a touring sting in The Mikado, that's not exactly a West End Show and something that he probably would have got into anyway as a career progression following his training at music college.

I don't really see how all of this relates to Rhydian and why he should be grateful to these people ...lol

Perhaps Jonathan and Lee should be thankful to Suzanne Shaw for her role in the touring production of Summer Holiday for allowing other reality show contestants to get work in musicals.

Joking aside .. good luck to them all .. if they can do the job then just let them do it and enjoy their performance if you get a chance to see them.

Excellent post - Totally agree with all your points.

Yes, I`m also at a loss to understand how the success (or otherwise) of Jon Ansell or Lee Mead has anything to do with Rhydian The only connection between them is that they were on the same bill at Sunday`s ALW concert..............Rhydian and Lee were outstanding but Jon Ansell`s performance was forgettable