Welcome to DS. I agree, Kristina's dress was lovely. Her and John were brilliant. I also agree on the outfits. I didn't like hardly any of the professional's outfits or the female celebrities.

Not sure what Camilla was wearing - it looked like a sparkly boob tube under a blouse with no buttons and a bit of that metal foil fringe you get in Santa's grotto. The stylists must have to work really hard to make someone with a figure like that look like a sack of spuds.

I really liked John's performance, he just looked as though he was enjoying every bit of it. Like someone else said [sorry, I will get the names right next time] I'm not sure how he'll do with the faster dances and I don't like to think of the jive .. think Garry Rhodes has to go though, he just wasn't that good and anyway he just gets on my nerves.

I hope (and assume) that this is the thread awaiting the elimination result tonight.)

I'm afraid not. It's the Saturday 20th September - eviction spoiler thread your looking for .

I wasn't sure about Camilla's outfit. I thought that there had been a disaster in wardrobe and they had had to pull things together. The bottom half didn't go with the top somehow.
Last edited by Helbrown : 20-09-2008 at 22:08

Sorry, I am at a loss to understand these "John was brilliant" comments - brilliant compared to what? Apart from one or two, it was a threadbare night and I am not going to vote for some portly old gentlemen on the basis that he wasn't anywhere near as cr@p as people thought he might be!

Coming in late because I only just watched it - here are my thoughts:

Tess's dress wasn't bad for the first time in a long time.

Tom and Camilla - I wanted him to be bad. I still loathe Camilla and dislike her routines but I have to admit he was one of the better ones. He reminded me slightly of something from the Thunderbird routines, not sure why. His hips were very good though and I liked his footwork, particularly in the New Yorkers.
Phil and Flavia - Yuck. His standing spin was horrible. His posture was vile the whole way through. Really didn't like it at all. Flavia's dress was horrendous, looked like it was made for Big Bird. Only someone as stunning as Flavia could still look half decent wearing it.
Don and Lilia - One of the few people I disagreed with Craig's marks on. It was bad, but I think it deserved a slightly higher mark. He reminds me a bit of John Barnes. Definitely has rhythm. Unlucky to be doing cha-cha I think. I quite liked Lilia's dress although usually I think orange dresses are vile. Don't like her fringe, she looks much better without it.
Austin and Erin - Love, love, loved him. He was graceful, elegant, kept body contact the whole way through, had a beautiful spin compared with the other men, had an amazing hold. Erin has done a really good job with him. Also on Erin, she looked stunning. Beautiful dress, beautiful hair. I used not to be a fan of hers, started to soften when she was with Schmeichel and after tonight have so much respect for her. It was a fabulous routine which showcased a great partner very well. My favourite routine tonight - I had a tear in my eye at the end and I don't quite know why.
Mark and Hayley - Meh. I agree with Craig - DULL. To be honest I include Hayley in that. I wasn't predisposed to like her as I'm a big fan of Nicole but decided last week that it was unfair of me and I would give her a fair chance so went in tonight with an open mind but didn't like it at all. On most of the lines I hated his feet looked really strange. His shoulders were hunched the whole way through. I would have had them lower.
Gary and Karen - Didn't deserve a 1 from Craig. I haven't been a fan of Karen since she danced with Bill but tonight I found myself warming to her. Her dress was horrible but apart from that I thought she looked absolutely beautiful and she looked crestfallen when they got the 1. It wasn't good, but a 3 would have been fairer. He did look like he was loving it though.
John and Kristina - Was pleasantly surprised by this. There was real emotion in the dance and it wasn't half bad. His footwork was quite good for the first week and I liked the arabesque at the end. Kristina was beautiful, like a forties film star and I hope they stay in.
Andrew and Ola - I've noticed a vast improvement in Ola's routines from her first series and liked this one. Loathed her outfit, the girl is stunning and could look so in a black sack, but that looked very tarty. I was wondering if it was body paint or actual clothes. Was sort of on the fence with Andrew - it wasn't good, but neither was it bad.

The girls - Rachel looked very good and I adored her dress. Christine and Cherie were quite good also.

My favourite - Austin was head and shoulders above the other competitors.
My wish for leaving - Phil was dreadful and would be my favourite to leave. Should be joined by Gary or Mark in the dance off.

Didn't mention that in my post but I hated her outfit. It was horrible.

Because a lot of people write off the older contestants before seeing them dance. John at 64, did brilliantly, and deserves the votes he recieves. And that's your choice, nobody has told you to vote for John!

Am a fan of Karen (sorry!) but I thought Gary was awful and I am disappointed for her that she has, yet again, got a dud. I mean, just because she deservedly won with Mark doesn't mean she should never get a chance again... Did I miss somewhere where it's been mentioned she doesn't like Gary Rhodes? I love Strictly gossip and seem to always be the last to know!

It seems to be par for the course that once a pro dancer wins Strictly, they're never given anyone who can dance in the future. Erin's been feeding off crumbs since she was partnered with Colin Jackson, as has Lillya since Darren Gough. And I don't think Anton's got anywhere near a final, but it's him I feel sorry for.

Garraway last series, and now Tallywacker.

Don't go and write off Taylforth just yet. We'll have a clearer idea of her next week.

But when the other judges aren't marking that way, it looks odd.

Also if he gives out a 9 in week 1, it'll be hard for him to give higher marks for improvement.

He seems to me making a point of his higher marks. It's almost like he's criticising the other judges every time.


He wouldn't have to go to the other extreme.

How does any of that mean Len isn't over-marking or that Criaig's 1 wasn't under-marking?

We're now in the ludicrous situation that Len may give Austin a lower mark in 2 week time even if he dances better.

I think Len marks week on week and the standard he expects, which doesn't exactly help with the viewers. At a week one level, Austin's dance deserved a nine, but if he danced like that in week 7 it might've only got a 7. Looking at the competition as a whole, he did overmark this week. But looking at it week on week, his scores seem more understandable.

EDOT: Craig marks considering the compeittion as a whole. He gives a 6 in week one, he would've considered it a 6 in the final. His way of marking is easier to follow, but does seem very harsh when 1's start to be given out!

I prefer Len's way and don't have a really problem with him. This isn't like a really competition where all the dancers are only judged on one night's performance. They are judges on how they perform after learning the basics, then learning a new dance, etc., so I think Len's way works well for SCD. He does over mark sometimes, but I'd say it is normally well meaning - unlike Bruno who gave a 10 for a performance with an illegal lift - I'm not trying to open that can of worms, but you catch my drift I hope!

I thought Craig's marks were the most accurate tonight. It's the first week, no-one expects perfection, and giving them low marks gives them something to aim for in the next few weeks. I disagreed with the judges on Mark and Gary particularly - didn't think Gary deserved a 1, he was bad, but not that bad and thought Mark was worse than the marks he got. Everything else seemed fair enough.

What's wrong with giving a 10 to a performance with an illegal lift? I certainly don't see how it fails to be well-meaning.

Once Len doesn't have to use any fixed standard for his marks, why should any other judge have to? If a judge thinks the performance was good enough for a 10 for that week, or compared to other dances, or whatever, despite the illegal lift, why shouldn't he give it a 10?

Or does it change suddenly for 10s? 10 is reserved for perfection, but 9 is up for grabs?

I just think it's unprofessional, confusing to viewers, and unfair to the dancers and voting viewers, if different judges are using such different ideas of how to mark -- without even explaining it clearly to the audience.

I don't think it's explained clearly to the dancers (celeb or pro) either.

Oh, show's over, Craig's back!!

I've just said he does have a fixed standard????

And saying "..despite the illegal lift..." answers your own question.

I do agree however, that it is not really clear why a judge gives the score they give.

I'm beginning to believe you...

Night night!

What's his fixed standard?

You'd seemed to be agreeing with people who were saying a mark from Len goes with different standards of dancing in different weeks.

If he had a fixed standard, than anyone who does as well (or better) than Austin did tonight would have to get at least a 9, no matter what week it was.

What's the answer, then? It can't be that 10 requires perfection, because then 9 would require something near that, which Austin's performance wasn't.

If Len can give a 9 for something that isn't that near to perfect, then Bruno shouldn't have to reserve 10 for perfection.

He has a fixed standard week on week. So anyone who equals Austin's performance next week in his opinion will get a nine. However, his fixed standard changes week by week. From the beginning of SCD he's had a fixed standard for week one which is different from the fixed standard for week two, and so on.

While 10 does have to be kept back for perfection (and that is arguable in itself, with the illegal lift mark plus Gethin's 10 where Arlene and Craig criticised his hands) maybe he considers the '9' rating in this case as as close to perfection a person can get in week one?

I agree, it's convoluted, but I disagree over the fixed standard comment, I think he does have an idea week on week.


But the situation is completely different.

Bruno awarded a 10 for an illegal lift, a move that in proper competition would have led to disqualification. There is a clear rule against it, and the other judges acted against it.

With marks in general, there is no specific rulebook. Each judge goes on their own opinion and interpretation. Hence the differences in some cases with marks.

My thoughts

Camilla's dress very strange not a big fan of hers but enjoyed the routine lots.

Erin can't stop looking at the teeth (sorry) he was good much better then I expected

Len overmarked by a mile as usual Craig undermarked (nothing new there then)

Girls cha-cha - what a load of rubbish hopefully they were to busy working on next weeks dance to bother with this group dance.

A waltz is easier to carry off than a cha cha so I wasn't surprised that John got the waltz stops him going out in the first round and the show being called agist (again)

Is mark's partner to short for him he seemed to stoop through the whole dance he wasn't as good as I hoped he would be.