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Old 18-06-2014, 17:58
NEWLINEtv
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Hi, personally I'm not bothered by DRM in PC games, but I was just wondering if any DS members had a different opinion on DRM. Do you think it's good/bad?, what (if any) improvements to DRM do you think could be made (without the removal of it)?
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Old 18-06-2014, 18:59
Dan27
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DRM is good for PC gaming, because piracy is rampant.

DRM should not stop console owners selling their physical media in the second hand market.
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Old 18-06-2014, 19:01
Tony Tiger
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I can't think of a positive. It doesn't stop piracy, and frequently messes with paying customers.
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Old 18-06-2014, 20:28
stefmeister
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DRM is good for PC gaming, because piracy is rampant.
And piracy on PC is something DRM hasn't really solved.

Thats the thing I always find a bit amusing, The PC platform is often looked at as how DRM can work when in reality it hasn't really worked at all as piracy of PC games is just as bad today as it was 10-15 years ago.


Moving to consoles, Something a friend of mine brought up not long ago as his concern with DRM is what it will do to the retro gamers 10-20 years down the line.

Right now if you want to buy a games system thats 10-20 years old you can find one & get loads of games for it off the Pre-owned market. I brought a Sega Saturn just over a year ago & quickly got myself a ton of games for it.

Lets say the PS5 & XBox2 or whatever it will be called go the DRM route, What happens when 10-20 years down the line when there retro systems & the retro gamers of the time want to play them? Do we end up where a console is dead once you can no longer buy games brand new?

Thats a side of it I'd not really thought about before.
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Old 18-06-2014, 21:36
MC_Satan
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Starforce killed any idea of liking DRM. Screwed up my pc repeatedly, made it run so slowly.
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Old 18-06-2014, 21:55
NEWLINEtv
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stefmeister has made an interesting point to which i never thought of before, 10-20 years down the line, when the current PC titles become retro, will they still be playable? what if steam somehow went bankrupt?
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Old 18-06-2014, 23:37
Hotbird
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DRM has never benefited the customer.

stefmeister has made an interesting point to which i never thought of before, 10-20 years down the line, when the current PC titles become retro, will they still be playable? what if steam somehow went bankrupt?
And that is the big unknown gamble with Digital Content.
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Old 19-06-2014, 00:39
Matt D
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Diablo 3 and Sim City users on PC suffered at launch because of always-online DRM, as did Watch Dogs users on PC.

Servers gone tits up? Sorry, you can't play your game...
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Old 19-06-2014, 08:39
NEWLINEtv
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I can't help but vision this might get worse, if/when cloud gaming comes into play gamers won't even have the game files, they will be stored in the cloud and the big companies have full control over gamers "it's our way or the high way" the companies will say
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Old 19-06-2014, 08:47
Dan27
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Diablo 3 and Sim City users on PC suffered at launch because of always-online DRM, as did Watch Dogs users on PC.

Servers gone tits up? Sorry, you can't play your game...
To be fair, online is pretty core to Diablo 3 and the way it was made. With Sim City it wasnt, and they patched in an Offline version.

Funnily enough, hours after the offline version of SC came out, so did a fully cracked version of the game...
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Old 19-06-2014, 12:48
Hotbird
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I can't help but vision this might get worse, if/when cloud gaming comes into play gamers won't even have the game files, they will be stored in the cloud and the big companies have full control over gamers "it's our way or the high way" the companies will say
Which is why for me, cloud remains a rental / subscription only idea. I will not buy cloud stored content but I will happily rent / subscriber to a service providing them like I can for Netflix or Sky.
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Old 19-06-2014, 13:46
Matt D
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To be fair, online is pretty core to Diablo 3 and the way it was made. With Sim City it wasnt, and they patched in an Offline version.

Funnily enough, hours after the offline version of SC came out, so did a fully cracked version of the game...
Online was supposedly core to Sim City too, going by official statements at the time, which is why it was such a surprise when they U-turned and updated it with offline play, something they previously said couldn't be done.


As for Diablo 3... You'd think that online would only be needed for co-op, not solo play - That's how it is on the console version, which allows offline play, yet on the PC version it's always-online regardless... Why does it *need* to be online when you're playing on your own? DRM...

If battle.net goes down, you can't play Diablo 3 on PC. But if XBL/PSN goes down, you can still play on console...


When Watch Dogs launched, many PC players couldn't play because Uplay's collapse meant they could not even activate the game, even if it wasn't needed for actual play.

On consoles, though, you could still play when Uplay was dead as it was only needed for multiplayer.
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:00
NEWLINEtv
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Just looking on steam and noticed some games which are "pay to win" and "free to play", I'm guessing (as I don't have a steam account) that they rely on always online? so if a users broadband goes down (which mine did the other day) the games become useless?
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:03
MC_Satan
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Also, although not gaming related, amazon can delete books you have 'bought'.
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:07
NEWLINEtv
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Also, although not gaming related, amazon can delete books you have 'bought'.
yeah, i read somewhere that amazon were deleting disney movies from accounts which people have bought, aparently it's in the amazon t&c's that they can do that
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:19
whoever,hey
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yeah, i read somewhere that amazon were deleting disney movies from accounts which people have bought, aparently it's in the amazon t&c's that they can do that
That happened months ago and its nothing to do with amazon.
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Old 20-06-2014, 02:00
Jimmy_McNulty
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Just looking on steam and noticed some games which are "pay to win" and "free to play", I'm guessing (as I don't have a steam account) that they rely on always online? so if a users broadband goes down (which mine did the other day) the games become useless?
Well they are multiplayer games so they kind of have to always be online to play. It's when always online for single player that creates a problem.


And you do not own digital items, you merely rent a license. There have been a couple of cases where a publisher has removed a game from Steam and there is jack the user (and probably Valve) can do about it.

Welcome to the future, baby.
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Old 20-06-2014, 07:27
NEWLINEtv
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That happened months ago and its nothing to do with amazon.
Granted it was because of Disney, but the point I was trying to make was apparently amazon hid the message in their t&c's that they could do it at the request of the content owner

Welcome to the future, baby.
A sad future for PC video game collectors indeed
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Old 20-06-2014, 09:10
Hotbird
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That happened months ago and its nothing to do with amazon.
I doubt the customer cares who's to blame, only that content they have bought and paid for has been taken from them.

Couldn't happen with physical content.
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Old 21-06-2014, 16:27
Moggio
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DRM is good for PC gaming, because piracy is rampant.

DRM should not stop console owners selling their physical media in the second hand market.
No, DRM is not good for PC gaming and doesn't stop piracy from occurring. It just alienates the consumer base.
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Old 21-06-2014, 16:35
whoever,hey
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Some DRM'd PC games are worse than the pirate versions. Just like with dvds, having a non-skippable pirate trailer at the beginning!

It really depends on the DRM. I have no problem with Steam/Origin/U-Play. But i have serious issues with some of these third party DRM solutions that plague PCs!! Luckily they are becoming rarer.
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Old 21-06-2014, 23:39
gold2040
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Some DRM'd PC games are worse than the pirate versions. Just like with dvds, having a non-skippable pirate trailer at the beginning!

It really depends on the DRM. I have no problem with Steam/Origin/U-Play. But i have serious issues with some of these third party DRM solutions that plague PCs!! Luckily they are becoming rarer.
Think this graphic is appropriate

http://craphound.com/images/ifurapirate.jpeg
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Old 22-06-2014, 11:36
Hotbird
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That picture really illustrates the problem with some of these companies. You buy a film and are kind of punished for buying a legitimate copy rather than getting a pirated version.

Its stuff like that that encourages piracy IMHO.
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