Blue Ray Gone by 2012?

SkyBlueArmy · 01-10-2008, 22:31

Quote:

Firstly - if you shop around - especially if you buy US discs - the price difference on new releases is not that much.

Secondly - even the best upscaled picture does not even come close to a decent genuine HD picture

Firstly, not everyone is gonna be comfortable shopping online for US discs, and even in the States, Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content.

Secondly, I know unscaled doesn't come close

. I said its 'good enough' for a large number of people, and as you yourself have said, the results from upscaling are 'good enough' for the price, especially in these times.

SkyBlueArmy · 01-10-2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRockford

What about people that don't have a wife or kids?

Also, there's no such thing as decent up scaling between £30 to £70.

Then you're not looking hard enough. I got my Tosh player for £70 and its much better at upscaling then my old Sony NS97-whatsit player which was praised over at the AV forums as a 'super buy' (yeah, right).

Blu Ray real challenger isn't downloads, its cheaper upscalers which are only going to improve in quality. Won't provide true HD quality but the price point for the hardware and films is gonna make people wonder if going Blu is worth it until the content price comes down.

pullithard · 01-10-2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy

Firstly, not everyone is gonna be comfortable shopping online for US discs, and even in the States, Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content.

Secondly, I know unscaled doesn't come close

. I said its 'good enough' for a large number of people, and as you yourself have said, the results from upscaling are 'good enough' for the price, especially in these times.

You obviously have not looked into buying US discs enough.

While I agree that some people wont buy US discs from the US there are plenty of UK based sites that sell them and if you look around even on Amazon UK you will find US Bluray discs cheaper than the dvd equivalent.

I buy virtually all my US discs via Amazon UK from Marketplace sellers and the US already has reduced price Bluray discs the same as the UK does with dvd's at the moment.

When the Stanley Kubrick movies were released on US Bluray I got them as new releases for under £12 each delivered which was cheaper than the UK dvd's.

Whether you like a film enough to upgrade is a choice - but brand new titles that I dont have already on dvd I will get the Bluray every time as I can always get it for a max of £4 over the dvd price as a new release and usually cheaper than dvd if I wait a few months

MAW · 02-10-2008, 07:12

Sooner or later you'll run into a region coding issue there. It's beyond the reach of many people because of this I know, to you it's not complicated, but clearly it's your hobby, passion even. A lot of the people in the Blu buying income bracket are simply so busy with work and family to deal with, they really cannot be BOTHERED with shopping around for cheap Blu rays, and making sure they are from the right region, or region free as in many cases. It's another irritation, making the region coding issue another factor holding Blu Ray back from widespread acceptance.

SkyBlueArmy · 02-10-2008, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullithard

You obviously have not looked into buying US discs enough.

Yeah, I have actually. I've purchased several HD-DVDs from the states (before Blu won the format war and the price of HD-DVDs over here fell like a stone). I've also purchased US discs from Amazon Marketplace.

You may be comfortable buying discs like that. So am I. Doesn't mean that casual buyers are and those are the people which Blu needs to appeal to to be successful (espcially since the advantages of Blu over Upscaled DVD are nowhere near as great as say, DVD over VHS).

smcbeath · 02-10-2008, 10:59

I saw this on the high def forum. Toshiba are bringing out downloads in retail via sd cards.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...44&newsLang=en

Under the initiative, consumers will download digital content to Secure Digital (SD) cards and portable devices such as mobile phones through kiosks and other self-service devices deployed, integrated and maintained by NCR at retail stores, airports, quick-service restaurants and other outlets. Toshiba will develop dedicated set-top boxes for the service, and develop and market high capacity SD cards for the system, improving the speed of downloads in the future.

The kiosks and other self-service devices will use the MOD Retail Enterprise System for “multichannel” digital media delivery, which enables digital content to be managed and distributed securely using portable devices and portable storage media, including SD memory cards.

MOD Systems provides retailers with a complete digital media system for consumers to load entertainment to portable devices and storage media, or burn content to an optical format (CD/DVD). The MOD Retail Enterprise System, deployed with leading global retailers, supports all content types and distribution scenarios including manufacturing-on-demand, delivery in optical or digital format, and hybrid online and in-store systems. Video entertainment content will be provided by major and independent studios, which will provide approximately 4,000 titles at the launch of the service. Initial content downloads will be in standard definition, and the service may also be applied to downloads of high definition content in the future.

I got it all from here http://www.highdefforum.com/high-def...-delivery.html

MarkElkington · 02-10-2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy

Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content.

Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order.
DVD is £12.
Blu-Ray is £15.

High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray.

Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner...

JimRockford · 02-10-2008, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullithard

There is.

I got a Toshiba HD DVD player for £60 and the upscaling was superb - far better than the Sony BD player I tried and also slightly better than the PS3

Yes, but that Tosiba HD DVD player cost £200. You just bought it in a firesale for £60.

jonmorris · 02-10-2008, 13:03

Price is an issue for mass market acceptance, but for me the real importance is quality. Of course, as I said before, I won't pay HMV £27 for a film, but I will accept paying more than for the equivalent DVD (it's just that I'd prefer that to be just £2-3, which you can do if you shop around online).

DVD is a resolution that is far lower than HD, so upscaling is not going to achieve the same as having the HD disc. You can't create data that isn't there!

I have a £3,000 TV and want to deliver the best quality material. Obviously upscaling helps with my 'back catalogue' but a decent Blu-Ray player should upscale SD discs so it's the best of both worlds.

ShaunIOW · 02-10-2008, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkElkington

Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order.
DVD is £12.
Blu-Ray is £15.

High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray.

Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner...

Yep on new titles at release the price difference isn't too pronounced but lots these days wait 2 or 3 month's and pick the 2 disc dvd's up for a fiver so the price difference gets greater as blu-ray's are a long way from being that cheap.

SkyBlueArmy · 02-10-2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRockford

Yes, but that Tosiba HD DVD player cost £200. You just bought it in a firesale for £60.

There's plenty of brand new upscalers available for around that price.

SkyBlueArmy · 02-10-2008, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkElkington

Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order.
DVD is £12.
Blu-Ray is £15.

High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray.

Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner...

As ShaunIOW states, its not so good for older films, is it?

Amazon.Co.Uk, Pirates of the Caribbean 3: At World's End:
DVD : £3.98
2 Disc Special Edition Limited Edition With Character Art Cards : £7.69
Blu Ray: £16.98

Amazon.Co.Uk, Spider-Man 3:
2-Disc Edition DVD: £4.98
Blu-ray: £13.98

Amazon.Co.Uk, The Shawshank Redemption:
DVD: £6.98
Blu Ray: £13.98

jonmorris · 02-10-2008, 13:45

True, old DVDs are going to be sold off cheap, but not on BD if they've only just been released.

Given time, there will be plenty of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs to choose from.

SkyBlueArmy · 02-10-2008, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

True, old DVDs are going to be sold off cheap, but not on BD if they've only just been released.

Given time, there will be plenty of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs to choose from.

Until then, I'm happy with my upscaler, and I have plenty of HD-DVD movies I haven't even watched yet.

By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now. Not everyone actually cares about owning HD content, they just want to see HD content, via rental from Xbox Live and Sony's own PSN service. BT Vision are also offering HD movies, along with Virgin Media.

MarkElkington · 02-10-2008, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy

By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now.

You'd need a much better broadband network in order to meet EVERYONES needs - and I have a feeling that Hollywood will try to block downloading as it's too easy to copy from one hard drive to another. They've already blocked (or are trying to block) the real media software that allows DVD's to be copied - theres too much money / interest in owning the actual disks for downloads to take off.

pullithard · 02-10-2008, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAW

Sooner or later you'll run into a region coding issue there. It's beyond the reach of many people because of this I know, to you it's not complicated, but clearly it's your hobby, passion even. A lot of the people in the Blu buying income bracket are simply so busy with work and family to deal with, they really cannot be BOTHERED with shopping around for cheap Blu rays, and making sure they are from the right region, or region free as in many cases. It's another irritation, making the region coding issue another factor holding Blu Ray back from widespread acceptance.

Yeah right - just like it did with dvd

Region coding is as much of an issue on Bluray as it is on dvd - that is - its not important.

Unlike dvd where virtually 100% of movie titles are region coded over 80% of Bluray from the US are not.

In fact ,Warner ,Universal and Paramount do not region code at all.

As in the early days of dvd multiregion Bluray players are available at a premium but once the mass market cheapies enter the market MR players should become as common as they are on dvd.

However the only label that causes coding problems is Fox and so far all their titles have appeared in the UK within a month of the US release and now even Die Hard 3 is on its way

pullithard · 02-10-2008, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaunIOW

Yep on new titles at release the price difference isn't too pronounced but lots these days wait 2 or 3 month's and pick the 2 disc dvd's up for a fiver so the price difference gets greater as blu-ray's are a long way from being that cheap.

If people have the online access to buy cheap dvd's then they can also take advantage of the cheap US Bluray
discs.

In the UK the market is not yet mature and price reductions on the same scale as dvd is not yet happening but it is in the US.

pullithard · 02-10-2008, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy

Until then, I'm happy with my upscaler, and I have plenty of HD-DVD movies I haven't even watched yet.

By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now. Not everyone actually cares about owning HD content, they just want to see HD content, via rental from Xbox Live and Sony's own PSN service. BT Vision are also offering HD movies, along with Virgin Media.

Video downloads will never be a threat.

They will never replace the market of buying a hard copy to keep.

They will appeal only to the rental sector and those who use Sky Box Office and similar services

The collector has as much interest in downloads as they do in rental.

I rent selected titles on Bluray that I am not interested in keeping but the idea of downloading my classics is of as much interest as it is in renting them

ShaunIOW · 02-10-2008, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullithard

Yeah right - just like it did with dvd

Region coding is as much of an issue on Bluray as it is on dvd - that is - its not important.

Unlike dvd where virtually 100% of movie titles are region coded over 80% of Bluray from the US are not.

In fact ,Warner ,Universal and Paramount do not region code at all.

As in the early days of dvd multiregion Bluray players are available at a premium but once the mass market cheapies enter the market MR players should become as common as they are on dvd.

However the only label that causes coding problems is Fox and so far all their titles have appeared in the UK within a month of the US release and now even Die Hard 3 is on its way

Of course multi-region is important - DVD only really took off in 2000 when there was an affordable MR player in Tesco - thats when I started with DVD and less than half my collection are R2.

Even if 80% BD are region free, what happens if a title you particularly want is in the 20%? It could happen and there's still many DVD titles not available outside R1 or R1 titles that are better than their R2 releases with regards extras or cuts. Wasn't the reason a lot of studio's went blu rather than red because HD DVD was region free? So they obviously intend to region code some titles.

BTW I hope you're talking about a US release of Die Hard 3, as with normal DVD the UK release was badly cut and the US one wasn't so no reason for that to change with BD.

pullithard · 02-10-2008, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaunIOW

Of course multi-region is important - DVD only really took off in 2000 when there was an affordable MR player in Tesco - thats when I started with DVD and less than half my collection are R2.

Even if 80% BD are region free, what happens if a title you particularly want is in the 20%? It could happen and there's still many DVD titles not available outside R1 or R1 titles that are better than their R2 releases with regards extras or cuts. Wasn't the reason a lot of studio's went blu rather than red because HD DVD was region free? So they obviously intend to region code some titles.

BTW I hope you're talking about a US release of Die Hard 3, as with normal DVD the UK release was badly cut and the US one wasn't so no reason for that to change with BD.

The success of dvd had nothing to do with multiregion availability.
It was The Matrix and its showcasing of dvd's abilities along with Tesco and the £250 Samsung that shortly afterwards dropped to £200 and its multiregion hack was not known until a while after it was out .

Ironically it was the same machine that had trouble playing the sophisticated features on The Matrix disc

Warner ,Universal and Paramount all supported HD DVD and none have ever released any coded Blurays and dont appear to have any plans to - the Indiana Jones/Crystal Skull is also region free.

Fox code all titles but all their US releases are all out or announced in the UK .

Other companies like Columbia and Disney do a mix - but catalogue titles all seem to be region free and new releases only have short gaps for the UK.

Die Hard 3 was released in a tv version on dvd by mistake.

I believe the later dvd had a few cuts too but that was the Buena Vista version.

The Bluray is coming from Fox and I would assume it will be the same uncut Fox Region B Bluray disc already available from Australia that I have

Lt. Dang · 04-10-2008, 00:43

Reading through this thread has been interesting and I notice a lot of the discussion seems to have been around when the public will decide to start the move from DVD to BluRay.

I was wondering whether we would be allowed the choice?

Is it possible that the manufacturers and the studios (often the same people – like Sony) will eventually get tired of supporting both formats and push the public towards BluRay? Is it possible that sometime in the future some new releases will be BluRay only?

Thus promoting BluRay players and making DVD players look like soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

Echo1 · 04-10-2008, 03:53

Nope. DVD has a very strong hold and Blu-ray is a niche market. If anything, it will be Blu-ray that'll get pushed out.

SkyBlueArmy · 04-10-2008, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by pullithard

Video downloads will never be a threat.

They will never replace the market of buying a hard copy to keep.

They will appeal only to the rental sector and those who use Sky Box Office and similar services

The collector has as much interest in downloads as they do in rental.

I rent selected titles on Bluray that I am not interested in keeping but the idea of downloading my classics is of as much interest as it is in renting them

I must admit, I probably rent rather than buy these days. I've brought films months ago which I've not gotten around to watching yet. I'm still playing catch-up on all the hours of telly recorded on my V+ Cable box.

Still, those rental/download services are just gonna become more and more popular, IMO. Not everyone is a collector.

SkyBlueArmy · 04-10-2008, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt. Dang

Reading through this thread has been interesting and I notice a lot of the discussion seems to have been around when the public will decide to start the move from DVD to BluRay.

I was wondering whether we would be allowed the choice?

Is it possible that the manufacturers and the studios (often the same people – like Sony) will eventually get tired of supporting both formats and push the public towards BluRay? Is it possible that sometime in the future some new releases will be BluRay only?

Thus promoting BluRay players and making DVD players look like soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

AFAIK, any Blu Ray player is capable of playing back standard DVDs, and upscaling them too. So I can see a time when 'standard' DVD players are extinct. But that time is a long way off IMO.

Can't see the studios doing Blu only releases for eons. Blu market share is pretty small compared to standard DVD.

jonmorris · 04-10-2008, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo1

Nope. DVD has a very strong hold and Blu-ray is a niche market. If anything, it will be Blu-ray that'll get pushed out.

Considering Blu-Ray is backwardly compatible, you are definitely wrong here. DVDs may continue to be released for some time, but the public will gradually switch (anyone buying a flat screen TV is likely to decide one day to find out what the HD 'fuss' is all about - especially when Sky, Virgin and Freesat start to push HD even more heavily in the next few months and years).

Once they do start to upgrade, they'll naturally look to buying HD discs instead of SD.. and DVD sales will fall. Retailers and distributors will then stock more Blu-Ray, until DVD all but disappears.

Think of Video CDs and laserdisc as examples of how things move on.

01-10-2008, 22:31	#176
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by pullithard Firstly - if you shop around - especially if you buy US discs - the price difference on new releases is not that much. Secondly - even the best upscaled picture does not even come close to a decent genuine HD picture Firstly, not everyone is gonna be comfortable shopping online for US discs, and even in the States, Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content. Secondly, I know unscaled doesn't come close . I said its 'good enough' for a large number of people, and as you yourself have said, the results from upscaling are 'good enough' for the price, especially in these times.

01-10-2008, 22:40	#177
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by JimRockford What about people that don't have a wife or kids? Also, there's no such thing as decent up scaling between £30 to £70. Then you're not looking hard enough. I got my Tosh player for £70 and its much better at upscaling then my old Sony NS97-whatsit player which was praised over at the AV forums as a 'super buy' (yeah, right). Blu Ray real challenger isn't downloads, its cheaper upscalers which are only going to improve in quality. Won't provide true HD quality but the price point for the hardware and films is gonna make people wonder if going Blu is worth it until the content price comes down.

01-10-2008, 23:25	#178
pullithard Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 114	Quote: Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy Firstly, not everyone is gonna be comfortable shopping online for US discs, and even in the States, Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content. Secondly, I know unscaled doesn't come close . I said its 'good enough' for a large number of people, and as you yourself have said, the results from upscaling are 'good enough' for the price, especially in these times. You obviously have not looked into buying US discs enough. While I agree that some people wont buy US discs from the US there are plenty of UK based sites that sell them and if you look around even on Amazon UK you will find US Bluray discs cheaper than the dvd equivalent. I buy virtually all my US discs via Amazon UK from Marketplace sellers and the US already has reduced price Bluray discs the same as the UK does with dvd's at the moment. When the Stanley Kubrick movies were released on US Bluray I got them as new releases for under £12 each delivered which was cheaper than the UK dvd's. Whether you like a film enough to upgrade is a choice - but brand new titles that I dont have already on dvd I will get the Bluray every time as I can always get it for a max of £4 over the dvd price as a new release and usually cheaper than dvd if I wait a few months

02-10-2008, 07:12	#179
MAW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 28,577	Sooner or later you'll run into a region coding issue there. It's beyond the reach of many people because of this I know, to you it's not complicated, but clearly it's your hobby, passion even. A lot of the people in the Blu buying income bracket are simply so busy with work and family to deal with, they really cannot be BOTHERED with shopping around for cheap Blu rays, and making sure they are from the right region, or region free as in many cases. It's another irritation, making the region coding issue another factor holding Blu Ray back from widespread acceptance.

02-10-2008, 08:53	#180
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by pullithard You obviously have not looked into buying US discs enough. Yeah, I have actually. I've purchased several HD-DVDs from the states (before Blu won the format war and the price of HD-DVDs over here fell like a stone). I've also purchased US discs from Amazon Marketplace. You may be comfortable buying discs like that. So am I. Doesn't mean that casual buyers are and those are the people which Blu needs to appeal to to be successful (espcially since the advantages of Blu over Upscaled DVD are nowhere near as great as say, DVD over VHS).

02-10-2008, 10:59	#181
smcbeath Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,247	I saw this on the high def forum. Toshiba are bringing out downloads in retail via sd cards. http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...44&newsLang=en Under the initiative, consumers will download digital content to Secure Digital (SD) cards and portable devices such as mobile phones through kiosks and other self-service devices deployed, integrated and maintained by NCR at retail stores, airports, quick-service restaurants and other outlets. Toshiba will develop dedicated set-top boxes for the service, and develop and market high capacity SD cards for the system, improving the speed of downloads in the future. The kiosks and other self-service devices will use the MOD Retail Enterprise System for “multichannel” digital media delivery, which enables digital content to be managed and distributed securely using portable devices and portable storage media, including SD memory cards. MOD Systems provides retailers with a complete digital media system for consumers to load entertainment to portable devices and storage media, or burn content to an optical format (CD/DVD). The MOD Retail Enterprise System, deployed with leading global retailers, supports all content types and distribution scenarios including manufacturing-on-demand, delivery in optical or digital format, and hybrid online and in-store systems. Video entertainment content will be provided by major and independent studios, which will provide approximately 4,000 titles at the launch of the service. Initial content downloads will be in standard definition, and the service may also be applied to downloads of high definition content in the future. I got it all from here http://www.highdefforum.com/high-def...-delivery.html

02-10-2008, 12:43	#182
MarkElkington Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112	Quote: Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy Blu Ray discs isn't exactly flying off the shelves. Why? Because the price of the content, when compared to standard discs, is simply too much. For Blu to succeed, it must be priced at a point where you can shop online from say, Amazon.co.UK, (or from a high street store) and not feel ripped off when comparing the price to standard-def content. Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order. DVD is £12. Blu-Ray is £15. High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray. Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner...

02-10-2008, 12:46	#183
JimRockford Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,989	Quote: Originally Posted by pullithard There is. I got a Toshiba HD DVD player for £60 and the upscaling was superb - far better than the Sony BD player I tried and also slightly better than the PS3 Yes, but that Tosiba HD DVD player cost £200. You just bought it in a firesale for £60.

02-10-2008, 13:03	#184
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Price is an issue for mass market acceptance, but for me the real importance is quality. Of course, as I said before, I won't pay HMV £27 for a film, but I will accept paying more than for the equivalent DVD (it's just that I'd prefer that to be just £2-3, which you can do if you shop around online). DVD is a resolution that is far lower than HD, so upscaling is not going to achieve the same as having the HD disc. You can't create data that isn't there! I have a £3,000 TV and want to deliver the best quality material. Obviously upscaling helps with my 'back catalogue' but a decent Blu-Ray player should upscale SD discs so it's the best of both worlds.

02-10-2008, 13:15	#185
ShaunIOW Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 7,828	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkElkington Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order. DVD is £12. Blu-Ray is £15. High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray. Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner... Yep on new titles at release the price difference isn't too pronounced but lots these days wait 2 or 3 month's and pick the 2 disc dvd's up for a fiver so the price difference gets greater as blu-ray's are a long way from being that cheap.

02-10-2008, 13:22	#186
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by JimRockford Yes, but that Tosiba HD DVD player cost £200. You just bought it in a firesale for £60. There's plenty of brand new upscalers available for around that price.

02-10-2008, 13:27	#187
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by MarkElkington Play.com has The Dark Knight up for pre-order. DVD is £12. Blu-Ray is £15. High street stores like HMV will always rip you off. But how you can say the discs aren't close enough in price is beyond me. I checked Iron Man too, and the double disk version is £15 on DVD / £17 Blu-ray. Maybe the answer would be to release sub £10 single disk releases for new films? I noticed you can get a one disk version on DVD with very few extras for a tenner... As ShaunIOW states, its not so good for older films, is it? Amazon.Co.Uk, Pirates of the Caribbean 3: At World's End: DVD : £3.98 2 Disc Special Edition Limited Edition With Character Art Cards : £7.69 Blu Ray: £16.98 Amazon.Co.Uk, Spider-Man 3: 2-Disc Edition DVD: £4.98 Blu-ray: £13.98 Amazon.Co.Uk, The Shawshank Redemption: DVD: £6.98 Blu Ray: £13.98

02-10-2008, 13:45	#188
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	True, old DVDs are going to be sold off cheap, but not on BD if they've only just been released. Given time, there will be plenty of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs to choose from.

02-10-2008, 13:49	#189
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris True, old DVDs are going to be sold off cheap, but not on BD if they've only just been released. Given time, there will be plenty of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs to choose from. Until then, I'm happy with my upscaler, and I have plenty of HD-DVD movies I haven't even watched yet. By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now. Not everyone actually cares about owning HD content, they just want to see HD content, via rental from Xbox Live and Sony's own PSN service. BT Vision are also offering HD movies, along with Virgin Media.

02-10-2008, 14:35	#190
MarkElkington Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112	Quote: Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now. You'd need a much better broadband network in order to meet EVERYONES needs - and I have a feeling that Hollywood will try to block downloading as it's too easy to copy from one hard drive to another. They've already blocked (or are trying to block) the real media software that allows DVD's to be copied - theres too much money / interest in owning the actual disks for downloads to take off.

02-10-2008, 21:21	#191
pullithard Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 114	Quote: Originally Posted by MAW Sooner or later you'll run into a region coding issue there. It's beyond the reach of many people because of this I know, to you it's not complicated, but clearly it's your hobby, passion even. A lot of the people in the Blu buying income bracket are simply so busy with work and family to deal with, they really cannot be BOTHERED with shopping around for cheap Blu rays, and making sure they are from the right region, or region free as in many cases. It's another irritation, making the region coding issue another factor holding Blu Ray back from widespread acceptance. Yeah right - just like it did with dvd Region coding is as much of an issue on Bluray as it is on dvd - that is - its not important. Unlike dvd where virtually 100% of movie titles are region coded over 80% of Bluray from the US are not. In fact ,Warner ,Universal and Paramount do not region code at all. As in the early days of dvd multiregion Bluray players are available at a premium but once the mass market cheapies enter the market MR players should become as common as they are on dvd. However the only label that causes coding problems is Fox and so far all their titles have appeared in the UK within a month of the US release and now even Die Hard 3 is on its way

02-10-2008, 21:25	#192
pullithard Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 114	Quote: Originally Posted by ShaunIOW Yep on new titles at release the price difference isn't too pronounced but lots these days wait 2 or 3 month's and pick the 2 disc dvd's up for a fiver so the price difference gets greater as blu-ray's are a long way from being that cheap. If people have the online access to buy cheap dvd's then they can also take advantage of the cheap US Bluray discs. In the UK the market is not yet mature and price reductions on the same scale as dvd is not yet happening but it is in the US.

02-10-2008, 21:29	#193
pullithard Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 114	Quote: Originally Posted by SkyBlueArmy Until then, I'm happy with my upscaler, and I have plenty of HD-DVD movies I haven't even watched yet. By the time mass numbers of bargain basement Blu-Ray discs are on sale, downloads could be a real threat, or at least, a bigger threat then they are now. Not everyone actually cares about owning HD content, they just want to see HD content, via rental from Xbox Live and Sony's own PSN service. BT Vision are also offering HD movies, along with Virgin Media. Video downloads will never be a threat. They will never replace the market of buying a hard copy to keep. They will appeal only to the rental sector and those who use Sky Box Office and similar services The collector has as much interest in downloads as they do in rental. I rent selected titles on Bluray that I am not interested in keeping but the idea of downloading my classics is of as much interest as it is in renting them

02-10-2008, 22:06	#194
ShaunIOW Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 7,828	Quote: Originally Posted by pullithard Yeah right - just like it did with dvd Region coding is as much of an issue on Bluray as it is on dvd - that is - its not important. Unlike dvd where virtually 100% of movie titles are region coded over 80% of Bluray from the US are not. In fact ,Warner ,Universal and Paramount do not region code at all. As in the early days of dvd multiregion Bluray players are available at a premium but once the mass market cheapies enter the market MR players should become as common as they are on dvd. However the only label that causes coding problems is Fox and so far all their titles have appeared in the UK within a month of the US release and now even Die Hard 3 is on its way Of course multi-region is important - DVD only really took off in 2000 when there was an affordable MR player in Tesco - thats when I started with DVD and less than half my collection are R2. Even if 80% BD are region free, what happens if a title you particularly want is in the 20%? It could happen and there's still many DVD titles not available outside R1 or R1 titles that are better than their R2 releases with regards extras or cuts. Wasn't the reason a lot of studio's went blu rather than red because HD DVD was region free? So they obviously intend to region code some titles. BTW I hope you're talking about a US release of Die Hard 3, as with normal DVD the UK release was badly cut and the US one wasn't so no reason for that to change with BD.

02-10-2008, 22:30	#195
pullithard Inactive Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 114	Quote: Originally Posted by ShaunIOW Of course multi-region is important - DVD only really took off in 2000 when there was an affordable MR player in Tesco - thats when I started with DVD and less than half my collection are R2. Even if 80% BD are region free, what happens if a title you particularly want is in the 20%? It could happen and there's still many DVD titles not available outside R1 or R1 titles that are better than their R2 releases with regards extras or cuts. Wasn't the reason a lot of studio's went blu rather than red because HD DVD was region free? So they obviously intend to region code some titles. BTW I hope you're talking about a US release of Die Hard 3, as with normal DVD the UK release was badly cut and the US one wasn't so no reason for that to change with BD. The success of dvd had nothing to do with multiregion availability. It was The Matrix and its showcasing of dvd's abilities along with Tesco and the £250 Samsung that shortly afterwards dropped to £200 and its multiregion hack was not known until a while after it was out . Ironically it was the same machine that had trouble playing the sophisticated features on The Matrix disc Warner ,Universal and Paramount all supported HD DVD and none have ever released any coded Blurays and dont appear to have any plans to - the Indiana Jones/Crystal Skull is also region free. Fox code all titles but all their US releases are all out or announced in the UK . Other companies like Columbia and Disney do a mix - but catalogue titles all seem to be region free and new releases only have short gaps for the UK. Die Hard 3 was released in a tv version on dvd by mistake. I believe the later dvd had a few cuts too but that was the Buena Vista version. The Bluray is coming from Fox and I would assume it will be the same uncut Fox Region B Bluray disc already available from Australia that I have

04-10-2008, 00:43	#196
Lt. Dang Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 288	Reading through this thread has been interesting and I notice a lot of the discussion seems to have been around when the public will decide to start the move from DVD to BluRay. I was wondering whether we would be allowed the choice? Is it possible that the manufacturers and the studios (often the same people – like Sony) will eventually get tired of supporting both formats and push the public towards BluRay? Is it possible that sometime in the future some new releases will be BluRay only? Thus promoting BluRay players and making DVD players look like soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs? Regards, Lt. Dang

DS Forums

Blue Ray Gone by 2012?

04-10-2008, 03:53	#197
Echo1 Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Home Posts: 5,864	Nope. DVD has a very strong hold and Blu-ray is a niche market. If anything, it will be Blu-ray that'll get pushed out.

04-10-2008, 12:41	#198
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by pullithard Video downloads will never be a threat. They will never replace the market of buying a hard copy to keep. They will appeal only to the rental sector and those who use Sky Box Office and similar services The collector has as much interest in downloads as they do in rental. I rent selected titles on Bluray that I am not interested in keeping but the idea of downloading my classics is of as much interest as it is in renting them I must admit, I probably rent rather than buy these days. I've brought films months ago which I've not gotten around to watching yet. I'm still playing catch-up on all the hours of telly recorded on my V+ Cable box. Still, those rental/download services are just gonna become more and more popular, IMO. Not everyone is a collector.

04-10-2008, 12:45	#199
SkyBlueArmy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Coventry Posts: 3,301	Quote: Originally Posted by Lt. Dang Reading through this thread has been interesting and I notice a lot of the discussion seems to have been around when the public will decide to start the move from DVD to BluRay. I was wondering whether we would be allowed the choice? Is it possible that the manufacturers and the studios (often the same people – like Sony) will eventually get tired of supporting both formats and push the public towards BluRay? Is it possible that sometime in the future some new releases will be BluRay only? Thus promoting BluRay players and making DVD players look like soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs? Regards, Lt. Dang AFAIK, any Blu Ray player is capable of playing back standard DVDs, and upscaling them too. So I can see a time when 'standard' DVD players are extinct. But that time is a long way off IMO. Can't see the studios doing Blu only releases for eons. Blu market share is pretty small compared to standard DVD.

04-10-2008, 19:08	#200
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by Echo1 Nope. DVD has a very strong hold and Blu-ray is a niche market. If anything, it will be Blu-ray that'll get pushed out. Considering Blu-Ray is backwardly compatible, you are definitely wrong here. DVDs may continue to be released for some time, but the public will gradually switch (anyone buying a flat screen TV is likely to decide one day to find out what the HD 'fuss' is all about - especially when Sky, Virgin and Freesat start to push HD even more heavily in the next few months and years). Once they do start to upgrade, they'll naturally look to buying HD discs instead of SD.. and DVD sales will fall. Retailers and distributors will then stock more Blu-Ray, until DVD all but disappears. Think of Video CDs and laserdisc as examples of how things move on.