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Old 08-10-2003, 20:19
maisymoo
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As a big fan of the concept of BB I will say this.
BB1 was great! I had no idea what I was in for - neither did many of us. Therefore, it had that "first-time-you-see-a-film-quality" about it.]
When BB2 came around I knew immediately (Bubble FFS!) that the HMs had cottoned on to a televisual career expanding ride and by BB3 the producers were really getting on my wick. Although BB3 did inadvetantly provide 3rd party-derived fun for me I must say.
BB4 was utter sh*te and the worst of all worlds. The gimmicks spoilt the whole caboodle, and rather like MSdos that powers the machine you are probably typing on, bolting on gee-jaws and nik naks doesn't remove the fact that underneath is an old banger.
BB1 had it all, BB2 the charcters I am regailed constantly (really?) BB3 the cusp of ok to "iffy" and BB4 downright crap, allowing as it did a thinly disguised charlatan pretend nice-guy to win.
Better come up with something radical Endemol, I suggest a return to BB1 the original concept, I think we ALL loved that.
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Old 08-10-2003, 20:49
Alrightmate
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Originally posted by ben4321
That's unfortunate. However, BB3 was nothing but tacky, contrived, vacuous, self-consciously lowbrow fodder and a completely dumbed down degeneration of the concepts showcased in BB1. Frankly, it was appalling.
Yeah,..I know.

Great wasn't it?
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Old 08-10-2003, 21:47
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Originally posted by ben4321
.........BB1 was a non-mainstream "cult" that exploded into a phenomenon thanks to the antics of Nick. BB4 weeks 1-4 was what BB1 would've been like without Nick present - quietly absorbing.
True, there are a small group of people that would prefer a slower paced style of BB, that's ok, everyone has different tastes but it's quite clear that the majority of us thickies prefer a faster paced zappier style of BB, where at least something is happening.
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Old 08-10-2003, 22:14
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Originally posted by bystander
True, there are a small group of people that would prefer a slower paced style of BB, that's ok, everyone has different tastes but it's quite clear that the majority of us thickies prefer a faster paced zappier style of BB, where at least something is happening.
Yes, bread and circuses.....
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Old 08-10-2003, 22:18
maisymoo
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er, what happened on BB4?

As an example of BB4 longwinded nonsense remember the tug of war that took a whole programme for two teams to drag one past the line? Talk about watching paint dry.
Gos epitomised BB4, i.e. asleep.
For "Things" happening BB1 "happened" as did BB3 with Jade, Adeliator and Sandy going over the wall etc.
What did the BB4 lot do?
Kate BB3 did more falling over putting her jeans on than the whole of BB4!!
Memorable moments in BB4?
Eventhe staged bomb hoax was uninteresting compared.
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Old 08-10-2003, 22:39
swingaleg
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No doubt there were some people who spent hours squinting at a two inch square window on their PC, but for most of us there was no 'live' coverage of BB1

We didn't get to see hours of people asleep on couches or dozing on a sunbed

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed BB1, but it's its hardly fair to compare a couple of hours highlights a week ( not even every night if you remember ) with the wall to wall coverage we have had of the last three BBs

BB1 might have been boring as hell for 23 hours in the day for all we know
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Old 09-10-2003, 08:48
maisymoo
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Hi Swing
BB1- I only had C4 tv shows as usual, and they did spend ages doing nothing. The tasks were a lot more difficult and took a week to do some, like learning to ride a unicycle and walk a tightrope as part of the circus task.
And cycling from Lands End to John O groats took a while too!
It was the shock of the new that made BB1 compulsive and I suppose if you slotted BB1 anywhere in the series the amount of time spent loafing would be similar!!
Apart from Gos and Spencer who perfected doing nothing!!
I have never seen BB on a PC or actually want to - not paying rip off prices!! I remember a cart load of us stopped voting forever when they fixed it for Jade to stay in instead of Adele by altering the rules. I watched as, sadly, Sandy didn't fall off the roof and only Alex seemed concerned! Great moments!
There are bits to remember from BB4, I bet we all had a rant at Lisa when she appeared. And the delightful Camoron. Plus we had the enigmatic Jon!
It is always worth watching though, if we don't have a go at the HMs we can have a go at the Producers, C4, Dermot etc!!
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Old 09-10-2003, 13:41
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Certainly we need to see some unbiased editing in BB5 - how about letting the public decide who they want to win rather than the producers deciding!

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Old 09-10-2003, 14:17
maisymoo
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Agreed
What they could do is stop this ridiculous dropping of the sound lark on the live bits.
OH and what a giveawy about the money angle, all those stupid games across the screen on the live things. You money grubbing devils Endemall!
I think maybe THAT's why I liked BB1 because it wasn't so evident it was a purse-filler for C4 whereas BB4 was total gimmickery - no wonder it was the worst of the lot.
Yes, feed us lots of live bits, let US make up our minds, THEN we will buy the tie-in products, we will, we just don't like being overtly thought of as stupid.
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Old 09-10-2003, 15:15
bystander
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Originally posted by maisymoo
er, what happened on BB4?.........
I didn't say anything happened in BB4. It was the most boring BB so far and the reason for that is that the producers probably listened to a minority lobby group that wanted a more sedate BB.
Solution, don't listen to vociferous minority lobby groups.
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Old 09-10-2003, 16:26
ben4321
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Originally posted by bystander
I didn't say anything happened in BB4. It was the most boring BB so far and the reason for that is that the producers probably listened to a minority lobby group that wanted a more sedate BB.
Solution, don't listen to vociferous minority lobby groups.
No. BB4 didn't work out because the low attention span pleb audience weened on the crassly overstretched Club 18-30 antics of BB3 complained that it was boring being obviously incapable of realising that the *original* format of BB is one of neutral observation and interactions developing in a subtle, incremental manner.

Increasingly desperate gimmicks were then introduced to "liven up" the series which only had the effect of alienating both fanbases. BB was ultimately a victim of its own success.
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Old 09-10-2003, 16:28
ben4321
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I've actually seen *loads* of copies of the BB4 Uncut DVD in my local shops and couldn't help smirking at the fact that they're obviously unable to shift them.
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Old 09-10-2003, 17:03
bystander
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Originally posted by ben4321
....BB4 didn't work out because the low attention span pleb audience weened on the crassly overstretched Club 18-30 antics of BB3 complained that it was boring.......................BB was ultimately a victim of its own success.
BB was only unlucky in being a victim of having a group of people who were totally boring from beginning to end, it's as simple as that and has nothing to do with influence of the "low attention span pleb audience" who enjoyed BB3.

Apologies to all you low attention span plebs out there, no offense meant....................not by me anyway.
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Old 09-10-2003, 17:15
ben4321
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Originally posted by bystander
BB was only unlucky in being a victim of having a group of people who were totally boring from beginning to end, it's as simple as that and has nothing to do with influence of the "low attention span pleb audience" who enjoyed BB3.

Apologies to all you low attention span plebs out there, no offense meant....................not by me anyway.
Wrong.

The whole format of BB is about voyeurism and how the minutiae of human interaction, which in itself is fairly boring and mundane, becomes compulsive viewing.

BB3 was BB in name only. A total bastardisation of the established format - just a cheap and tacky game show.
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Old 09-10-2003, 19:21
darling
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Originally posted by ben4321
Wrong.
The whole format of BB is about voyeurism and how the minutiae of human interaction, which in itself is fairly boring and mundane, becomes compulsive viewing.
BB3 was BB in name only. A total bastardisation of the established format - just a cheap and tacky game show.
No, that's not what BB is, its what you'd like it to be. Many of us were bored stupid by the minutiae of human interaction of BB1 and 2. Its why neither of them got the audience of BB3. Although the rather uninteresting housemates must also take some of the blame in my opinion.

And I hate to tell you, but you're likely to be extremely disappointed in all future BBs because you're not the audience that they're primarily interested in - however culturally superior you think yourself. They're aiming to attract people like me who couldn't be bothered to watch BB1 and 2 but adored BB3. They expect - and rightly in my opinion - that the core BB1 and 2 fans will watch anyway, whatever its like.

Ideally, of course, they'd also like to attract new people who liked none of them so far ......
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Old 09-10-2003, 19:45
ben4321
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Originally posted by darling
No, that's not what BB is, its what you'd like it to be. Many of us were bored stupid by the minutiae of human interaction of BB1 and 2.
Human interaction and voyeurism are *exactly* what the original format of BB was supposed to be, and if you really were bored by it, then how you rate your own interaction with others on a daily basis. I'm afraid that BB1 was the core of the series and those who disliked it can't really call themselves fans of the show. If you liked BB3, that's fine, but if you are not a fan of BB1 then you are not a fan of the the true essence of the original concept. Have you ever heard of a chap called George Orwell, darling?

BTW, "many of us"? Represent yourself and yourself only, darling. There is no safety in numbers.

Its why neither of them got the audience of BB3.
Because BB3 was as dumbed down and homogenised as everything else on TV. It was amorphous, mediocre "thicko" TV for people who like to be spoon-fed one-dimensional crap they can eat their TV dinners too. BB1 and 2 worked because of the freshness of the format and for those seeking an alternative to soap opera watching a natural flow of events with genuine people. BB3 and 4 had nothing to do with "reality TV" and everything to do with avaricious producers and marketing people shoving their agendas onto the programme.

And I hate to tell you, but you're likely to be extremely disappointed in all future BBs because you're not the audience that they're primarily interested in - however culturally superior you think yourself. They're aiming to attract people like me who couldn't be bothered to watch BB1 and 2 but adored BB3.


Exactly. BB was initially a non-mainstream show on a largely non-mainstream channel. Sadly, the overall blunting of Channel 4's innovations over the last few years has had a ripple effect on its programming. Its leaving behind its roots as a channel that provided a broad range of material to suit diverse interests and becoming one that chases the pound to the exclusion to all else, making stupid, vacuous TV for largely stupid, vacuous people.

I do not consider myself to be "culturally superior" - I'm just telling it like it is. I truly do mourn the dropping standards of our entertainment product, the endless dumbing down and the loss of a rich TV culture that's been happening since the early 1990's. The sole value that BB3 and 4 have are as examples of how crap and patronising British commerical TV has now become, of the triumph of mediocrity over substance. And I couldn't care less if my comments do cause offence - the British public are just as much to blame for their vulgar apathy.

Happy viewing.
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Old 09-10-2003, 20:28
maisymoo
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Well AMEN to Ben!

BB1 captured my imagination - here was this first "experiment" for British TV whereby the incarcerated were privated and filmed 24/7. It never felt like anything other than voyeuristic, as the public we enjoyed watching humans as lab rats, the whole concept is epitomised by BB1.
I have to say that even as early as BB2 the £££ had lit up in the producers eyes and by BB3 we see the concept almost blown and cheap gimmicks (the divide) coming in. BB4 was a joke.
They have an almost impossible task to try and recreate the "feel" of BB1 and I feel rather like Pandora, left only with hope.
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Old 09-10-2003, 20:58
ben4321
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BB1 captured my imagination - here was this first "experiment" for British TV whereby the incarcerated were privated and filmed 24/7. It never felt like anything other than voyeuristic, as the public we enjoyed watching humans as lab rats, the whole concept is epitomised by BB1.
That's what was so exciting about BB1 - it earned its following on its own merits and through word of mouth not cheap crappy gimmicks. It literally exploded onto our cultural landscape, and appealed in a genuinely broad way, primarily because of the intelligence behind the deceptively simple concept.

I have to say that even as early as BB2 the £££ had lit up in the producers eyes and by BB3 we see the concept almost blown and cheap gimmicks (the divide) coming in. BB4 was a joke.
Yes indeed. BB2 was good stuff unfortunately marred by the presence of the awful Brian, who may not have had showbiz ambitions at the time but who behaved as though BB was an audition piece. Because of his presence, we then got the likes of Kate, Jonny and Alison next year. Brian might have been a popular winner, but I would argue that the legacy he left on the show was largely negative.

BB3 and its overheated aesthetic turned a high concept novelty into institutionalised trash TV for the Heat reading masses, and complacency leading to total inertia set in during the last few weeks of BB4 - as that grim farce of a series progressed, I refuse to believe anyone behind the scenes gave a damn.


They have an almost impossible task to try and recreate the "feel" of BB1 and I feel rather like Pandora, left only with hope.
It is impossible, I think, purely because the TV climate has changed since 2000. I'm relieved that the vast majority of posters here are able to engage intelligently with BB though. It interests me for a number of reasons, chiefly that in a nutshell, it articulates more than any other programme currently in production, the sad collapse of British TV as an institution. The situation is only going to get worse, particularly as the homogenisation of ITV continues with the merger of Carlton and Granada.
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Old 09-10-2003, 21:14
maisymoo
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Well I have to say again, that’s eloquently summarised.
That we suddenly get a seminal programme like BB1 only to have that, too, liberally and irreparably “popularised” was such a crying shame. BB1 presented us with a totally new televisual experience (I think we were next after the Dutch) and I remember that frisson of anticipation so well. I had to have every broadcast, every write up and peripheral I was so engrossed by it. It was new, no identifiable structure of “get in, say/do wacky things, get post-BB TV contract” was evident.
THAT was what was so enjoyable, it was unspoilt and at that stage not identified as a vehicle solely for revenue.
Thereafter the rest is obvious as we have witnessed it’s demise into yet another throwaway slot-filler. It had so much potential for real people and characters to engage and interact and for us to vicariously take part and indulge - not now - we apparently have to have our indulgences done for us. When money is the biggest part of the equation thereafter you can forget any real consideration for us, the viewing public as once more we are reduced to mere ratings figures and potential revenue.
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Old 09-10-2003, 21:25
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Originally posted by darling
No, that's not what BB is, its what you'd like it to be. Many of us were bored stupid by the minutiae of human interaction of BB1 and 2. Its why neither of them got the audience of BB3. Although the rather uninteresting housemates must also take some of the blame in my opinion.

And I hate to tell you, but you're likely to be extremely disappointed in all future BBs because you're not the audience that they're primarily interested in - however culturally superior you think yourself. They're aiming to attract people like me who couldn't be bothered to watch BB1 and 2 but adored BB3. They expect - and rightly in my opinion - that the core BB1 and 2 fans will watch anyway, whatever its like.

Ideally, of course, they'd also like to attract new people who liked none of them so far ......
What !
I agree with you darling.

Although I like the quieter moments better myself.
ie I prefer the live interaction to the highlights shows to the saturday live to the Friday live.

I did watch a lot of BB2 and it was dull-BB3 I loved but even then the live conversations were the key.(plus the odd pillow fight)
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Old 09-10-2003, 22:34
Marky de Salade
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Originally posted by ben4321

....Because of his presence, we then got the likes of Kate, Jonny and Alison next year
Good point ben.

Also why certain contestants - like Sunita, Sandy, Alex, Adele - who got into the BB3 house, quickly found they hated it, they said they applied expecting it be like BB1 or BB2 and got a nasty surprise to find it wasnt.
tho they tried to fight against it at the beginning, like Alex Sandy and Adele called themselves the "intellectual crew", coz they tried to have more intelligent conversations in the spirit of the previous series more in keeping with the original concept..... it was a lost cause

therefore i suppose they too would agree with you ben, that BB3 was a bastardization of the original concept, as you say "dumbed down and homogenized" for the tabloid culture.....
the outcome - a tumultuous success.
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Old 10-10-2003, 00:49
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade
.............. Alex Sandy and Adele called themselves the "intellectual crew", coz they tried to have more intelligent conversations.............more in keeping with the original concept..............BB3 was a bastardization of the original concept............"dumbed down and homogenized" for the tabloid culture.....
Sada Walkington
Andy Davidson
Caroline O'Shea
'Nasty Nick' Bateman (Booted out for cheating)
Nichola Holt
Tom McDermott
Claire Strutton (The replacement for Nick)
Melanie Hill

Darren Ramsay
Anna Nolan
Craig Phillips (The winner of BB1)

So who were the intellectuals out of that list from BB1?...............Craig maybe or could it have been Tom?
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Old 10-10-2003, 01:16
Marky de Salade
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Originally posted by bystander

So who were the intellectuals out of that list from BB1?...............Craig maybe or could it have been Tom?
you misunderstand..... you dont need to be actually an intellectual to take part in interesting or even intelligent conversations
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Old 10-10-2003, 02:10
ben4321
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade
you misunderstand..... you dont need to be actually an intellectual to take part in interesting or even intelligent conversations
Absolutely. You don't need to have been to university etc. to be intelligent.
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Old 10-10-2003, 02:47
bystander
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade
you misunderstand..... you dont need to be actually an intellectual to take part in interesting or even intelligent conversations
Sorry, maybe I did misunderstand but your reference to BB3

...Alex Sandy and Adele called themselves the "intellectual crew", coz they tried to have more intelligent conversations in the spirit of the previous series more in keeping with the original concept.....

comparing the " intellectual crew " of BB3 with the original concept implied that those HM's in BB1 were an intellectual crew, when in fact as a group they were no more interesting or intelligent than those of BB3.
What made BB3 so successful was that more people let go with their emotions, there was more humour, most of which came from Alex, even though at times he might have been the butt of the joke, there was some good storytelling, again mostly provided by Alex but that was ok because most of the other HM's were quite happy to sit there, listening to him and then of course you had the anticipation of whether Alex and Kate could get under a duvet long enough to do anything without Jonny interfering.
Yes, there was also the 18-30 antics but overall I think there was something for everybody.
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