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Big Brother 4 Uncut bombed |
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#51 |
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[quote]Originally posted by bystander
Sorry, maybe I did misunderstand but your reference to BB3 maybe you did ![]() comparing the " intellectual crew " of BB3 with the original concept implied that those HM's in BB1 were an intellectual crew, when in fact as a group they were no more interesting or intelligent than those of BB3. No it doesnt...... Those certain HMs referred to themselves as "the intellectual crew" (with self deprecating overtones), to indicate their preference to engage in interesting chats with each other, setting them apart from the Jonny Alison crew.... They werent actually claiming to be 'intellectual' people as such. ie To translate them, they meant they were the "we prefer to have interesting conversations with each other instead of playing constant 18-30 games" crew. Therefore, comparing them to the previous series' housemates and the spirit of the original concept, is reasonable. It implies, not that the HMs in BB1 or BB2 were intellectual crews but rather, that they also were similar in the respect of dareisay more mature, yet interesting, social interaction with each other. I think most people will agree there were more interesting, long conversations, in BB1 and BB2... it felt like you were eavesdropping on people having a good chat and a drink in their living room (which was the spirit of the concept originally sold to us). Whereas with BB3 there wasnt much of that, it mostly ended up like watching a pantomime play. What made BB3 so successful was that more people let go with their emotions, there was more humour, most of which came from Alex, even though at times he might have been the butt of the joke, there was some good storytelling, again mostly provided by Alex but that was ok because most of the other HM's were quite happy to sit there, listening to him and then of course you had the anticipation of whether Alex and Kate could get under a duvet long enough to do anything without Jonny interfering. yeah i can agree with that. And why i reckon alex shoulda won. But imo what stopped the BB4 bunch from "letting go of their true emotions" was not the back to basics format, it was actually BB3.... they were mindful of what happened with eg. Lynne, Adele, Jade, Alex etc....the best way to minimize allowing yourself to be caricatured negatively by the producers thru selective editing is to be as bland as possible. Sleeping all day is a good way too Yes, there was also the 18-30 antics but overall I think there was something for everybody. yeah, a lot happened to keep people glued, it was interesting for different reasons. In a car crash or Roman coliseum sort of way. For example. in the early weeks lots of people were saying how much they look forward to seeing Alex have a mental breakdown or top himself on national tv. Which I'm sure might be entertaining viewing, but not so nice really and i'm glad it didnt happen. But i gotta say i agree with ben's point that BB3 took the BB show into a significantly different direction from the original concept, he is correct That certain housemates ended up walking out on the show (Sunita, Sandy) or hated the experience (Alex) supports that assessment, that was the point i was trying to get at in my previous post..... After all they had obviously wanted to be in the BB3 house, so why the severe change of mind after they entered it?.... because it wasnt the BB1 & 2 atmosphere they expected and thought it was supposed to be. Whether you think the change was for worse (as ben thinks) or better (as some other FMs thinks) is an individual thing, and its a slightly different point.... so yeah, i can say i actually quite enjoyed BB3 too.... for what it was.... while agreeing with ben's point about it being a dumbed down deviation from the spirit of the original concept, which is true ![]() [size=1]Oh my this is a mega long post... sorry folks[/size]
Last edited by Marky de Salade : 10-10-2003 at 05:17. |
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#52 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade No apologies needed, it was a good post.Oh my this is a mega long post... sorry folks
I don't know where this idea of BB being a purely conversational experience came from. If that was supposed to be the concept then a more appropriate title for the show would have been " At Home With The Housemates " instead of the more ominous "Big Brother ". My expectation of it was for a group of people, locked away from the outside world and how they interacted with each other, whether it be in conversation, management of their environment or how they coped with whatever BB threw at them. |
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#53 |
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Originally posted by bystander thanks bystander, thats good of yaNo apologies needed, it was a good post. I don't know where this idea of BB being a purely conversational experience came from. If that was supposed to be the concept then a more appropriate title for the show would have been " At Home With The Housemates " instead of the more ominous "Big Brother ". My expectation of it was for a group of people, locked away from the outside world and how they interacted with each other, whether it be in conversation, management of their environment or how they coped with whatever BB threw at them. Anyways that idea came from channel 4 didnt it.... When BB1 was commissioned, u might remember it was a little bit controversial at the time. Channel 4 justified it by selling it as some kinda highbrow pseudoscientific psycho-social-anthropology experiment. Just like what u say in your second paragraph. A passive voyeuristic observational study of human behavior in a closed off microcosm kind of thing. i wouldnt go so far to argue it was supposed to be a purely conversational experience. Just regular everyday social interactions between peeps. It was not expected to be a huge ratings winner. It wasnt supposed to be a 2 month audition to become a tv presenter, or even to be 'famous' at all....none of the BB1 HMs expected that and were shocked at the reception when they came out. And certainly it was supposedly not intended to set the housemates up, thru selective editing, for public admiration or scorn. Which is what it has become, and reached a climax with BB3 - 'Evil Lynne', 'Adele the witch', 'Jade the Pig', Alex Moaning model/Hygiene freak'....etc. But then they also said teenBB was intended as "educational" programming to be shown offpeak on 4Learning.... |
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#54 |
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Originally posted by machman heehee yeah i bought the BB3 for £2.99 today. What a bargain The Big Brother 3 DVD is showing at £19.99 on the HMV website but it's only £2.99 in the sale in my local store. The BB4 DVD is also in stock on the website, again at £19.99. But not for long I suspect
![]() tho why cant they sell it at that originally probably they only cost 50p to make
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#55 |
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Originally posted by bystander Wah:sleep: Sorry, maybe I did misunderstand but your reference to BB3 ...Alex Sandy and Adele called themselves the "intellectual crew", coz they tried to have more intelligent conversations in the spirit of the previous series more in keeping with the original concept..... comparing the " intellectual crew " of BB3 with the original concept implied that those HM's in BB1 were an intellectual crew, when in fact as a group they were no more interesting or intelligent than those of BB3. What made BB3 so successful was that more people let go with their emotions, there was more humour, most of which came from Alex, even though at times he might have been the butt of the joke, there was some good storytelling, again mostly provided by Alex but that was ok because most of the other HM's were quite happy to sit there, listening to him and then of course you had the anticipation of whether Alex and Kate could get under a duvet long enough to do anything without Jonny interfering. Yes, there was also the 18-30 antics but overall I think there was something for everybody. I thought it was Alex doing all the intefering? . Just getting the tone back on track
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#56 |
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[quote]Originally posted by Marky de Salade Quote:
Originally posted by bystander Sorry, maybe I did misunderstand but your reference to BB3 ............... That certain housemates ended up walking out on the show (Sunita, Sandy) or hated the experience (Alex) supports that assessment, that was the point i was trying to get at in my previous post..... mmm Alex hated the experience??? Probably not important to your point but not sure I would agree with that statement. |
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#57 |
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Originally posted by ben4321 And.....Wrong. The whole format of BB is about voyeurism and how the minutiae of human interaction, which in itself is fairly boring and mundane, becomes compulsive viewing. BB3 was BB in name only. A total bastardisation of the established format - just a cheap and tacky game show. I think BB1 was also a reality TV game show with a cash prize to the winner.Superior quality to other shows but still so. I think Nick and Mel and Craig and Anna certainly treated it as such and also viewed it as good TV exposure for launching tv careers.And why not!Good luck to them all. controversial long pause....thought so! |
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#58 |
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Originally posted by Vilt UK he seems to have made that pretty clear during the show and since. mmm Alex hated the experience??? Probably not important to your point but not sure I would agree with that statement.
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#59 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade If he hated it he would have walked-he has enough character to do that.
he seems to have made that pretty clear during the show and since.
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#60 |
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Originally posted by Vilt UK didnt Brett talk him out of it If he hated it he would have walked-he has enough character to do that. it took a couple hours or something tho
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#61 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade your wrong he seems to have made that pretty clear during the show and since.
what he made clear was that he saw it as a challenge to root out the true characters by seeing who could cope Alex adapted extremely well to the situation and for me did the best in a tough time along with adele if 2 people were stand out then alex and adele did the most alexs personality would not have even considered leaving just because they threw the poor side onto them |
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#62 |
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sure he and adele obviously coped well on the poor side, better than the rest
but overall he loved his time on BB3? if you say so Not what he said during BB or the impression he gave in postBB interviews tho
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#63 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade but i didnt say so did i but overall he loved his time on BB3? if you say so :
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#64 |
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Originally posted by rachelb65 1) i said he seemed to make it clear during and after the show that he didn't enjoy the BB3 experiencebut i didnt say so did i
(ok here's some evidence...... he said so several times along the lines of 'i hate it here' 'i can't stand everyone else'.....at least twice he admitted he wanted to walk...Brett talked him out in week 8.... then there was his "i hated it in retrospect i regret doing it' speech at the end.... postBB several times in interviews he's been asked if he'd be happy to do it again, and its always been a no-not-on-your-life kind of reply (unless charity)....he's said he drank lots of alcohol coz it made it easier to get thru his time in the house.... doesnt sound like a guy enjoying himself in there so seems to me thats a reasonable opinion to come to.) 2) but you said that i'm wrong to think that... 3) so overall did he enjoy his time in the BB3 house or not? (i think he's said that he thinks it was worth it in the end, coz he's done quite well out of it.... but thats a different point) |
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#65 |
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Originally posted by rachelb65 i think you misunderstand, coz you seem to be talking about a slightly diffferent point.your wrong he saw it as a challenge to root out the true characters by seeing who could cope ......Alex adapted extremely well to the situation .......alexs personality would not have even considered leaving just because they threw the poor side onto them yeah, he coped well, rose to the challenges from BB and always made the best of his situation. He never had a problem with life on the poor side. No one said he didn't. That wasn't the point of opinion argued between me and Vilt.... which was did he hate his BB3 experience -ie. his time in the BB3 house - or not? I think its a reasonable opinion to think that generally overall, he hated his BB3 experience (see examples of supporting evidence previous post)...... but only because of certain other housemates there with him, and not because he wasnt able to cope with the BB challenge of the divide. If it wasnt for certain other housemates, i think most probably he would have thoroughly enjoyed his time in there, poor side and all. Well that's my conclusion. Based on the evidence. You and Vilt say i'm wrong to think that.....so presumably you reckon he enjoyed his time in BB3. And that's fine by me. There's room for us to have different opinions. ![]() It just so happens that i havent heard of him saying what a great time he had in BB3, and wouldnt he just love to do it again. Unlike for jonny and kate who have said that about themselves. Whereas with Alex, its on record that he said he didn't really feel he had a particularly great time, and he said he certainly would not want to do it again if offered. |
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#66 |
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Originally posted by Vilt UK I never denied that BB1 was a game show, but it also had a more serious, intelligent dimension to it, something that was jettisoned with BB3. And..... I think BB1 was also a reality TV game show with a cash prize to the winner.Superior quality to other shows but still so. I think Nick and Mel and Craig and Anna certainly treated it as such and also viewed it as good TV exposure for launching tv careers.And why not!Good luck to them all. controversial long pause....thought so! As for the housemates using BB1 as a platform to launch TV careers - no! The whole point about BB1 was that it was initially a cult curio that *built* its following through word of mouth. *No one* at the outset knew how popular and involved it was to become. It was only with BB2 that the wannabes (Brian, Narinder) emerged. |
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#67 |
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I noticed in my local Blockbuster this morning that they had the BB4 DVD marked down by a couple of quid. Since I've just been paid, I thought I'd get it but the sight of Cameron's nauseating, cheesy grin on the cover made me put it back on the shelf.
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#68 |
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Originally posted by ben4321 This is utter nonsense. They'd already done a BB in its home country and there was loads of promotion here about how it had gone and publicity about how huge it had been there. As for the housemates using BB1 as a platform to launch TV careers - no! The whole point about BB1 was that it was initially a cult curio that *built* its following through word of mouth. *No one* at the outset knew how popular and involved it was to become. It was only with BB2 that the wannabes (Brian, Narinder) emerged. Everyone involved had every expectation that it would be equally big here. Cult curio my foot. |
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#69 |
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Originally posted by rachelb65 yeah right your wrong a few quotes .... • [size=1](July 29, 2002, on RI:SE) [/size] ALEX: " People know I wasn't too happy in there... as far as I was concerned, coming out [of the house] that hour before was a lot better than having to stay in a bit longer " • [size=1](week 8 BB3) [/size] ALEX: " I hate it in here. I'm fed up and I want to go out the back door. I can't sit here with these people any longer. I just want to go. " • [size=1](mid-July 2002, on breakfast tv) [/size] ALEX'S MOTHER: " I feel distressed that he's unhappy in there and not being himself....he's trapped and frustrated" • [size=1](interview, July 31, 2002)[/size] Question: Alex, you appeared to hate the whole experience, why did you apply.... ALEX: " From what I had seen before, plus watching Uncut 1 and 2, I did not expect it [BB3] to be quite as different to the first two. " See, even Alex reckoned BB3 was very different in essence from the previous series. He did not expect it would not be like that. Let's see what else he has to say..... • [size=1](interview, Sept 2002)[/size] ALEX: "I think I would've been far happier in Big Brother 2 " So evidently he prefers the kind of atmosphere the housemates of previous series had. What didn't he like about the kind of show that BB3 was? here's a clue... • [size=1](week 8 BB3) [/size] ALEX: "I can't stay in the house any longer. It's a circus. " ok.... so if I'm wrong, according to you.. then Alex must be a liar and a fake If Alex is not a liar.... then my points were correct and valid. ![]() Which is it? |
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#70 |
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Originally posted by darling Erm..... no.....This is utter nonsense. They'd already done a BB in its home country and there was loads of promotion here about how it had gone and publicity about how huge it had been there. Everyone involved had every expectation that it would be equally big here. Cult curio my foot. If you'd actually paid attention, you would be aware that in interviews with the producer, Ruth Wrigley, it was declared that although the series had been popular in Holland, absolutely no one could predict whether BB would make it in Britain since Dutch culture is rather more liberal than ours. BB started off rather low-key tucked away on Channel 4 (remember those five-minute updates late at night - of course you don't) and was initially perceived as very much a curiosity piece. It was only with the activities of Nick that BB really caught on and became the "everybody's talking about it" phenomenon it was. Considering that you were "bored stupid" |
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#71 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade Possibly neither?[B ok.... so if I'm wrong, according to you.. then Alex must be a liar and a fake If Alex is not a liar.... then my points were correct and valid. ![]() Which is it? [/b] Everyone has different experiences in the house and goes through highs and lows. Mostly people say they are glad to have done it however it turns out.-which I think is what Alex is saying. Yes Alex had to be talked into staying at one point-as you say by BB but I also remember Kate seriousely trying to persuade him to stay around the same time. And by the by Kate who said she had a great time also had to be persuaded to stay on day 15. I honestly think if he hated it he would have gone.Unhappy at times I am sure-happy at other times. Looking back is always easier-perhaps Alex is a glass half empty person and Kate is a glass half full person. Have I found the middle ground?
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#72 |
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mmm a few pervs in this cafe tonight by the look of things.
I may be about to find out what fluffing really means.
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#73 |
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Originally posted by Marky de Salade There was quite a lot of messing around at the start of BB2 as well but then it settled down as fewer people were around-maybe too much and they sat around talking so much and boring us and themselves.Good point ben. Also why certain contestants - like Sunita, Sandy, Alex, Adele - who got into the BB3 house, quickly found they hated it, they said they applied expecting it be like BB1 or BB2 and got a nasty surprise to find it wasnt. tho they tried to fight against it at the beginning, like Alex Sandy and Adele called themselves the "intellectual crew", coz they tried to have more intelligent conversations in the spirit of the previous series more in keeping with the original concept..... it was a lost cause therefore i suppose they too would agree with you ben, that BB3 was a bastardization of the original concept, as you say "dumbed down and homogenized" for the tabloid culture..... the outcome - a tumultuous success.
Maybe Sandy and Sunita would have enjoyed themselves more if they had stuck around as even BB3 became quieter generally -there was more talking between people who would not have chosen to be with each other because of the rows. There was a last burst of action when the divide came down but it was still loads of quiet time and chat and only hotted up in the evening when Jonny thought of a game to keep himself and the others from going crazy with boredom. I think Sunita found she wasn't as extravert as she thought and did lack a friend to talk to-only Spencer and Kate seemed to make an effort to be nice to her and they had their own problems to worry about. Sandy -well who knows-he seemed to think he should be the"Dean"of the place from day 1 but didn't seem to realise that Dean had earned respect over many weeks and had not just assumed it..Plus he probably missed his wife and was happy to go and was expecting to go on day15(everyone seemed to think to think he would go). He then said a flippant and unfortunate comment that blew things up and the divide and his companions finished him off. Alex -well for whatever reason he chose to stir things up in that first week. If that bloke keeps doing that again I am going to deck him-where is an Adele when you need one
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#74 |
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One last thought before I shift out.
Everyone says they will not do another one-but I still expect to see Alex or Kate one day sitting in the jungle whacking some poor old snake over the head with a great big stick. Maybe when the money is too good or the career needs alittle help.
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#75 |
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[quote]Originally posted by Vilt UK
Possibly neither? No, the choice is clear, no perhaps mysterious third way about it i'm afraid Vilt. I'm sure rachelb appreciates your attempt to help her tho. My points were supported with evidence directly sourced from the things Alex has said, therefore if i'm wrong then his statements must be false, ie implying he is a liar and a fake lets recap my original points in argument: • 1> Alex didnt enjoy his BB3 experience (also Sunita and Sandy who walked)...... • 2> therefore this supports the point originally made by ben, that BB3 was a dumbed down deviation from the original concept of what the BB experience should be (for the worse in his opinion, other may feel thats for the better, but this is a separate point).... • 3> because that wasnt what they expected when they applied, from seeing what BB 1 & 2 were like. Summary point being, the theme of BB3 was a significant departure in concept from the previous 2 series. evidence ... eg. for • point 1> many Alex quotes available to that effect not only during, but also at the end of, and after his BB3 experience. for examples see previous post. and also: [size=1]final dinner speech, BB3 - [/size] "I came into this Big Brother House... thinking it would be something else. It wasn’t. • point 2> BB3 "is a circus ".... "i think i would've been happier in BB2" • point 3> " From what I had seen before, plus watching Uncut 1 and 2, I did not expect it BB3 to be quite as different to the first two. " Also going back to point 1> the question that was put to him here....full quote: "Alex, you appeared to hate the whole experience, why did you apply to go in the BB house, you knew what it was about ". .....note that he did not deny or correct this point put to him "Alex you appeared to hate the whole experience..."..... it's clear therefore from his answer that he accepts that premise, coz he tries to explain why he applied in that context of not having enjoyed it. (he says he didnt expect BB3 would be made so different from the 2 series before, and didnt expect to get picked anyways). Everyone has different experiences in the house and goes through highs and lows. Of course. But people come to an overall assessment about an experience at the end of it afterwards. Re-read the evidence....he also expressed the same sentiment of not having enjoyed his time at the end of the experience (eg final night speech), and after the show ended (ie various postBB interviews). ie. not just individual low points expressing unhappiness in isolation during it. Compare and contrast with Kate, Jonny and Jade who all said in their final speech and postBB, that they had a "wicked time" and how much they enjoyed their BB3 experience..... they also had lows too (eg kate weeping over alison and threatening to leave, jade blubbing and packing her case to leave in verrucagate)..... yet at the end they said that they loved their time in the house. Because we're talking about how they felt overall at the end of it all. Mostly people say they are glad to have done it however it turns out.-which I think is what Alex is saying. He's said he think it was worth it in the end, coz hes done quite well out of it, and so in that sense he's glad he did it. But as i posted before , this is a different point.... you can have done something or undergo an experience you didnt enjoy, but still be glad you did it coz its worth it for the rewards that turned out as a result. Yes Alex had to be talked into staying at one point-as you say by BB but I also remember Kate seriousely trying to persuade him to stay around the same time. And by the by Kate who said she had a great time also had to be persuaded to stay on day 15. Yes she did. And as i pointed out above, despite her individual low points she has said she thoroughly enjoyed her time in the house and has no regrets. Unlike Alex. Read what i explained above earlier - we're talking about what they said about how they feel about their whole experience overall at the end of the day. Therefore trying to suggest that Alex's expressions of an unhappy BB experience as isolated moments part of the normal high-and-lows of any experience doesnt work, because its also what he said at the end of the show and afterwards. I honestly think if he hated it he would have gone. and probably he would have if Brett hadnt talked him out of it. Also he was concerned about what his parents might say if he did, he said that was a factor that stopped him. Not knowing that actually they approved and were wanting him to leave coz they saw how unhappy he was (his parents were on GMTV/ BBLB etc at the time saying that - for example see his mom's quote i gave in previous post: "I'm distressed [at seeing his unhappiness]...." and say she'd rather he walked out than remain in an unhappy state in there as it pained her to see him like that).... i think probably he would more likely have left if he had known of his parents approval to do that. But thats just an opinion. Unhappy at times I am sure-happy at other times. But has made clear that overall reflection he felt he didnt have a particularly happy time. Looking back is always easier-perhaps Alex is a glass half empty person and Kate is a glass half full person. or maybe the reason that Alex says he didnt particularly enjoyed his BB experience is, but Kate (and eg. jonny, jade too) did....going back to the original point that started this whole digression thing about alex.... is coz kate, jonny, jade epitomized what BB3 was meant to be about - 'dumbed down', 'circus', 'pantomime' , whereas Alex had wanted something more along what BB2 was like ("I think I would've been far happier in Big Brother 2 " ) Have I found the middle ground? i dunno that u found it but its nice of ya to look for it. thanx for your post tho ![]()
Last edited by Marky de Salade : 12-10-2003 at 04:32. |
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