Big Brother 4 Uncut bombed

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Vilt UK

14-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Vilt UK
One last thought before I shift out.
Everyone says they will not do another one-but I still expect to see Alex or Kate one day sitting in the jungle whacking some poor old snake over the head with a great big stick.
Maybe when the money is too good or the career needs alittle help. ”

Perhaps I should bet on horses or something?

Called "Celebrity Love Island"according to another thread!

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by darling
Many of us were bored stupid by the minutiae of human interaction of BB1 and 2. ”

Sorry, but I still can't quite get over the breathtaking ignorance of that remark.

Quote:
“ They're aiming to attract people like me who couldn't be bothered to watch BB1 and 2 but adored BB3. ”

AMEN to that!

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Edna
BB4 was beaten on two counts. Lack of good contestants, but I personally think the lousy production had much more to do with it. ”

I'd say that BB4 was shot in the foot by the first night nominations (bad idea) and the fact that the housemates failed the weekly task three weeks on the trot, leaving them on basic rations and making them all pretty subdued.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by bystander
The success of BB is more to do with who the HM's are than anything else. The games, tasks and everything else are all trimmings to help move the show along. ”

Don't agree. It is the Big Brother environment and the *psychological* impact it has on the housemates/lab rats that drives the series, irrespective of any audience-friendly "personalities".

The reliance on "characters" has a lot to with "Machiavellian mastermind" Nasty Nick Bateman's influence, as from BB2 onwards the focus shifted to embrace soap opera aesthetics (the "will they or won't they?" romance between Helen and Paul) and more dominating personalities (Brian).

BB3 sadly dumbed down this trend. After Brian, we got similar amateur comedians Jonny, Alison and Kate (buy two vacuous, irritating show-offs, get one free) and compare Paul and Helen's relationship (endearing and credible) with Jade drunkenly pleasuring PJ one evening (cheap and nasty).

BB4 continued this with the popularisation of Jon Tickle (though what a pleasant surprise he turned out to be, subverting his two-dimensional geek role at every turn) and pushing romances between Cameron and Steph and Scott and Nush in a thoroughly insipid, cringe-inducing way of creating more soap-like storylines.

TOML

15-10-2003

At the end of the day BB 4 failed cuz the housemates chosen weren't tv material.

ben4321

15-10-2003

I would still argue that the first few weeks of BB4 were an earnest and laudable attempt to recapture the "back to basics" feel of BB1 and the series was sold on that premise.

Unfortunately, this low-key approach is apparently not enough anymore and BB4 failed when it tried to pander to audience expectation with gimmicks that made the show look increasingly tacky and desperate and saw its popularity nosedive.

TOML

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
I would still argue that the first few weeks of BB4 were an earnest and laudable attempt to recapture the "back to basics" feel of BB1 and the series was sold on that premise.

Unfortunately, this low-key approach is apparently not enough anymore and BB4 failed when it tried to pander to audience expectation with gimmicks that made the show look increasingly tacky and desperate and saw its popularity nosedive. ”

Why do you keep going on about how BB 4 tried to pander to the audience, it was boring and was never gonna improve cuz the housemates were all dull as dish water, at least they tried to save it but the choice of housemates killed it. The low-key approach is not gonna work is it, how can you watch the show LIVE in that state. Ben4321 you have to admit watching it live was a nightmare.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by TOML
Why do you keep going on about how BB 4 tried to pander to the audience, it was boring and was never gonna improve cuz the housemates were all dull as dish water, at least they tried to save it but the choice of housemates killed it. ”

No...... IMHO, the first four weeks of BB4 were just fine and more satisfying than the cheap voyeurism of BB3. Much of BB4 was psychologically charged and the ways relationships and personalities formed (Federico's disillusionment, Sissy's isolation, Jon's intellectualism vs. the shallowness of some of the others) rewarded the attentive viewer. Dry and sterile to some, but nevertheless true to the original format of the series.

Quote:
“The low-key approach is not gonna work is it, how can you watch the show LIVE in that state. Ben4321 you have to admit watching it live was a nightmare. ”

The point is that BB is "reality TV" *not* a manufactured soap opera and "reality" is often dull. Much of BB's appeal derives from simple "curtain twitching". I find it difficult to fathom why some are not able to realise that.

It was not the housemates that killed BB4, it was the expectations of an audience used to more fast-paced, non-cerebral TV product that killed any hope of returning to the original concept and conceits of BB.

TOML

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
No...... IMHO, the first four weeks of BB4 were just fine and more satisfying than the cheap voyeurism of BB3. Much of BB4 was psychologically charged and the ways relationships and personalities formed (Federico's disillusionment, Sissy's isolation, Jon's intellectualism vs. the shallowness of some of the others) rewarded the attentive viewer. Dry and sterile to some, but nevertheless true to the original format of the series.

The point is that BB is "reality TV" *not* a manufactured soap opera and "reality" is often dull. Much of BB's appeal derives from simple "curtain twitching". I find it difficult to fathom why some are not able to realise that.

It was not the housemates that killed BB4, it was the expectations of an audience used to more fast-paced, non-cerebral TV product that killed any hope of returning to the original concept and conceits of BB. ”

The thing is nothing was actually happening during the day, they would sleep and sunbathe. At night things would warm up but they would all shy away from confrontation. People like gos, sissy, tania, scott and cameron should not have been chosen in the first place.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by TOML
The thing is nothing was actually happening during the day, they would sleep and sunbathe. At night things would warm up but they would all shy away from confrontation. People like gos, sissy, tania, scott and cameron should not have been chosen in the first place. ”

As I've pointed out, "reality TV."

You can't really blame the BB4 housemates for avoiding confrontation. Blame the contrived mechanics and cynical manipulations in BB3. None of the BB4 lot wanted to experience what Adele had to go through when she was evicted, did they?

BB was a victim of its own success and the format is now stale. There aren't really any new directions for the series to go in. The contestants are too self-aware now, the gimmicks are hackneyed. BB4 really should be the last of the series.

TOML

15-10-2003

They should go out with a bang and put a load of 18-25 year olds in for at least 12 weeks.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by TOML
They should go out with a bang and put a load of 18-25 year olds in for at least 12 weeks. ”

What have another BB3 - a mindless, horrific booze and bitchfest? No thanks.

TOML

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
What have another BB3 - a mindless, horrific booze and bitchfest? No thanks. ”

Have a bit fun mate, it's what most want. BB3 wasn't mindless it was just an emotional rollercoaster with some idiotic behaviour along the way. Don't you rememeber that classic argument between alex and jade in the bedrooom, you have to admit it was gripping.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by TOML
Have a bit fun mate, it's what most want. BB3 wasn't mindless it was just an emotional rollercoaster with some idiotic behaviour along the way. Don't you rememeber that classic argument between alex and jade in the bedrooom, you have to admit it was gripping. ”

It was total s**t.

There was nothing "fun" about BB3. It was a showcase of everything that was cheap, degrading and cruel about the series format - the total exploitation of poor, stupid Jade and the crude gimmickry of the divide.

I'm afraid that if you really were "gripped" by scenes of the calibre of PJ being given a blowjob, of Jonny getting Kate drunk to the point that she passed out and nearly died, of Sophie being made subject to such horrifically petty bitching that she was reduced to tears and overall endless drunken nastiness, then frankly I feel sorry for you.

Voyeurism is indeed what BB is all about but BB3 proved that there are limits. Never has any series of BB had such an uneasy, unpleasant atmosphere. The housemates of BB3 were like rats in a box and I got sick of watching them gnaw on each other.

The fact that it remains the most commercially popular run of BB is a thoroughly depressing indictment of the British TV industry and the British public.

Then again, it was cheap, fast-paced TV and no doubt hugely enjoyable to those for whom the joy of BB is that they don't have to think about it.

Vilt UK

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Marky de Salade
Quote:
“Originally posted by Vilt UK
I think Sunita found she wasn't as extravert as she thought and did lack a friend to talk to...

Sunita - again i reckon it was coz she had expected BB3 to be more like the previous series in atmosphere. The clue lies in things she said:

1..... " i am not getting in that drawer. i'm a qualified barrister "
2..... " there is no one here that i particularly want to get to know better" (DR)
3..... "it was like a pantomime in there" (on BBLB after walking)

1> she doesnt want to take part in childish behavior - unseemly for her as an adult, and needlessly damaging to her professional image
2> she cannot, or does not want to, relate to any of the other housemates....
3> because of the juvenile atmosphere and tone of the house set by them. (Similar comment here to Alex's "it's a circus" - so obviously both feel this same dislike about what BB3 was about).

She came, she saw, she walked.... because it was not what she expected - when she saw it was turning out club18-30, she quit. Rather than coz she wasnt a sociable person i think. (after all her friends on BBLB said they know her as an outgoing type, plus she passed thru all the audition tests that should've weeded out overly introvert types).
If the housemates had been different, probably she would have stayed.

Sandy -well who knows-he seemed to think he should be the"Dean"of the place from day 1 but didn't seem to realise that Dean had earned respect over many weeks and had not just assumed it..Plus he probably missed his wife and was happy to go and was expecting to go on day15(everyone seemed to think to think he would go).
He then said a flippant and unfortunate comment that blew things up and the divide and his companions finished him off.

Sandy - similar reasons to Sunita i suppose. BB3 was not what he expected coz the atmosphere was dominated by immature childish housemates. He said " this is like a bad package holiday " ie. similar sentiment to Sunita's "pantomime" and Alex's "circus". And those housemates he couldnt stand were the 18-30 ringleaders. So when he was stuck with them and not nominated that week, he made up his mind to jump. Well, climb.

Alex -well for whatever reason he chose to stir things up in that first week.

i dont reckon he was the one stirring things up. Jonny started it surely

If that bloke keeps doing that again I am going to deck him-where is an Adele when you need one

its a Cameron ya need.... ”

Think I posted this wrong before-no need to reply especially.

B]You are certainly a big poster!

And seriousely testing my low attention span

My only but main point is you cannot judge BB3 on some incidents in the first two weeks.Despite the editing there was still much quiet time then-it was not all club 18-30-it would have been more fun if it was(possibly)
If Sandy and Sunita had stuck around like Alex and Kate during their various lows they would have found it would have changed and maybe to their liking.
The rich/poor side was a very quiet and a very interesting time-one of my favourites-contrived yes but it really showed a lot of insights into individual character and behaviourI wish they use it for BB5 in some way..
Also BB2 had a lot of fun and games in the first 3 weeks or so.

I stand to be corrected but I thought Alex was instigating a lot of the conflict in those first two weeks.I did not see very much of it then.I know jonny was irritating and did the pee thing but it was Alex who made it an issue to be nasty about it.
(not particularly blaming Alex for that as I am sure it made great TV and was part of the reason why BB3 really took off-compare BB4 when only Jon was prepared tp speak his mind and he was such a nice sweet man by nature that no one really got angry with him.) [/b]”

Vilt UK

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
e) with Jade drunkenly pleasuring PJ one evening (cheap and nasty).

. ”

I do not think PJ would have considered that pleasurable-"like a limpet attached to your knob-end"didn't he say??

Vilt UK

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
It was total s**t.

There was nothing "fun" about BB3. It was a showcase of everything that was cheap, degrading and cruel about the series format - the total exploitation of poor, stupid Jade and the crude gimmickry of the divide.

I'm afraid that if you really were "gripped" by scenes of the calibre of PJ being given a blowjob, of Jonny getting Kate drunk to the point that she passed out and nearly died, of Sophie being made subject to such horrifically petty bitching that she was reduced to tears and overall endless drunken nastiness, then frankly I feel sorry for you.

Voyeurism is indeed what BB is all about but BB3 proved that there are limits. Never has any series of BB had such an uneasy, unpleasant atmosphere. The housemates of BB3 were like rats in a box and I got sick of watching them gnaw on each other.

The fact that it remains the most commercially popular run of BB is a thoroughly depressing indictment of the British TV industry and the British public.

Then again, it was cheap, fast-paced TV and no doubt hugely enjoyable to those for whom the joy of BB is that they don't have to think about it. ”

What ?So you really didn't like it?

And-you cannot blame Jonny because Kate is such a lightweight!

And she didn't almost die-she sicked up a belly full of snakebite and then passed out.Pretty standard down our way.
You must have lapped up the Tabbys on that one rather than been watching the show on TV.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Vilt UK
What ?So you really didn't like it?

And-you cannot blame Jonny because Kate is such a lightweight!

And she didn't almost die-she sicked up a belly full of snakebite and then passed out.Pretty standard down our way.
You must have lapped up the Tabbys on that one rather than been watching the show on TV. ”

Whatever. You're seriously suggesting that this crap is entertaining or edifying television in any way?

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Vilt UK
I do not think PJ would have considered that pleasurable-"like a limpet attached to your knob-end"didn't he say?? ”

Your point?

Vilt UK

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
Whatever. You're seriously suggesting that this crap is entertaining or edifying television in any way? ”

The best-along with Tinker Tailor and Germany 1 England 5

Vilt UK

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
Your point? ”

Humour my dear Watson-Humour

Is everyone else missing all this because it's on such a wanky thread title

Can we rename it maybe-what would we call it?

It is pretty good though you seem to be able to get a good pop at Alex and no one takes any notice at all

darling

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
Sorry, but I still can't quite get over the breathtaking ignorance of that remark. [/b]”

And I find your rants the epitome of arrogant nonsense.

Fortunately DS provides the wonderful "ignore" facility so they needn't bother me ever again.

Edna

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by ben4321
I'd say that BB4 was shot in the foot by the first night nominations (bad idea) and the fact that the housemates failed the weekly task three weeks on the trot, leaving them on basic rations and making them all pretty subdued. ”

Exactly. Lousy production methods. Stupid gimmicks and surprise evictions.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by darling
And I find your rants the epitome of arrogant nonsense.

Fortunately DS provides the wonderful "ignore" facility so they needn't bother me ever again. ”

Oh, thank God for that.

I personally find your uncritical love of BB3 and your dismissal of any viewpoint you dislike or can't understand as "nonsense" to be the last word in stupidity and ignorance.

The more you can ignore, the more time you can spend with your crayons.

ben4321

15-10-2003

Quote:
“Originally posted by Edna
Exactly. Lousy production methods. Stupid gimmicks and surprise evictions. ”

I have a feeling that BBs 3 and 4 were in fact produced by work experience kids.

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