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Why a group can't win.


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Old 01-10-2008, 13:46
mrellis33
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Though i think this year has the best group so far in JLS I don't think they have much chance of winning. The main reason for this is that the themed weeks nearly always restrict what a group can sing. Most songs are wirtten for solo artists so to try to translate that into a 4-part harmony in a few days is almost impossible. That means unless you can find songs actually already arranged for a group, you'll never have a chance of winning the X Factor.

Its the only draw-back i can see with having the themed weeks as it does force everyone to try something different (lets face it Laura would sing Amy Winhouse and Duffy covers every week otherwise), but it does give a disadvantage to the groups. Shame really.
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Old 01-10-2008, 13:49
Chi
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Though i think this year has the best group so far in JLS I don't think they have much chance of winning. The main reason for this is that the themed weeks nearly always restrict what a group can sing. Most songs are wirtten for solo artists so to try to translate that into a 4-part harmony in a few days is almost impossible. That means unless you can find songs actually already arranged for a group, you'll never have a chance of winning the X Factor.

Its the only draw-back i can see with having the themed weeks as it does force everyone to try something different (lets face it Laura would sing Amy Winhouse and Duffy covers every week otherwise), but it does give a disadvantage to the groups. Shame really.
This is a good point, but if the producers/Simon want a group to do well, and I think they do this year, they'll find a way round it.
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Old 01-10-2008, 13:53
Chisato Geeste
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "identifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
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Old 01-10-2008, 13:58
Aesa
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "indetifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
Yeah I'd agree with that. With the solo singers they can concentrate on showing their personality and how lovely they are etcetc, with the larger groups it can be a struggle to learn their names. Take Hope and Futureproof, for example - I know that one girl in Hope had a baby, and there was a Phoebe and a Leah, but that's all I can remember about both those groups. Makes them less memorable, in a way.
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Old 01-10-2008, 14:02
trinity2002
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "indetifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
That is part of it I think.

The other part of it is that unfortunately most established groups have had years of experience in polishing up their act often with a lot of money and expertise thrown at them where as the X Factor groups haven't - and it shows.
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Old 01-10-2008, 14:02
DIVALICIOUS
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "indetifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
Yeah this is I think, the big reason. Although hope got far they had to be dragged there every week being saved by the judges. I think JLS will be out within the first 3 weeks. I don't think people will warm to them no matter how good they are. I think those two blonde welsh girls would have got quite far. Big personality's. Lets face it Same Difference didnt come 3rd because of their singing, it was because they were lovely, fun people who we knew alot about.
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Old 01-10-2008, 14:08
Lush_Lola
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The public are weird.
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Old 01-10-2008, 14:09
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The only group that has been successful in getting to the final was G4 & that was because Louis told them that they needed to push Jonathan forward as the lead. He tried to do the same with Eton Road. I agree re: musical arrangements & the groups have said that they also struggled with not having ear-pieces to maintain harmonies in such a loud studio. You have seen this problem so many times now. It was only due to G4 music training that they were able to do their arrangements in less than an hour (so they have subsequently said) & hold it together musically. This is all a bit much for many of the groups who just haven't got the knowledge/experience. I do think it is a much harder for the groups.
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Old 01-10-2008, 14:56
PIO2008
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Yeah I agree, bands tend not to do well in Xfactor. The Dolly Rockers in 2006 should have won I reckon. Check out their video, it's awesome and shows they have talent, no matter what the judges said!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ly-579816.html
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Old 01-10-2008, 15:04
mrellis33
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Yeah I agree, bands tend not to do well in Xfactor. The Dolly Rockers in 2006 should have won I reckon. Check out their video, it's awesome and shows they have talent, no matter what the judges said!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ly-579816.html
please say you are joking?! that was painful.
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Old 01-10-2008, 15:14
marks thespot
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The groups category has become a joke. The judges can't even find enough groups for the final "visit the mentor's flash pad" round; last year and this they have had to cobble together groups from solo entrants.

And they just can't manage them at all; this is one category where good styling and clever song choices ought to be able to overcome less than perfect vocals, but they never seem to get it right. I disagree that the song choices are limited; there are many good songs out there, they don't all have to be harmonized (they can take the singing in turn approach) and I actually think that group arrangements can be much more inventive than solo performances.

I think they should drop this category. Unless they can find a mentor who can make it work.
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Old 01-10-2008, 15:18
Ethereal
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Yeah I agree, bands tend not to do well in Xfactor. The Dolly Rockers in 2006 should have won I reckon. Check out their video, it's awesome and shows they have talent, no matter what the judges said!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ly-579816.html
That is one of the cheapest videos I've ever seen and the song isn't good either lol.
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Old 01-10-2008, 16:25
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I think the bands this year are quite poor.

JLS are probably the best but I think they'll be out quite soon if they make the lives, Girlband, Desire & Bad Lashes are all quite similar, and Priority and 4 Instict are both awful.

It doesn't look like it's going to be the year of the group.
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Old 01-10-2008, 20:43
ZipGypsy
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "identifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
Oh, thanks for that! I actually hadn't stopped to realise that we have had 3 sibling duos already! Honestly!
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Old 01-10-2008, 20:44
ZipGypsy
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Best band we ever had were Journey South. Jings...I even went to see them.
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Old 01-10-2008, 20:54
DIVALICIOUS
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Yeah I agree, bands tend not to do well in Xfactor. The Dolly Rockers in 2006 should have won I reckon. Check out their video, it's awesome and shows they have talent, no matter what the judges said!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ly-579816.html
Oh my goodness! That nearly made me wet myself. What an awesome video. I just loved the look on everyones face especially on the tube. Everyone was like what the heck!? Best video EVER!! I actually remember their name somehow. They are not the best singers but I quite liked that. It was funny and filled with personality. Id prefer them to the girl groups this year.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:10
utoia2007
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Though i think this year has the best group so far in JLS I don't think they have much chance of winning. The main reason for this is that the themed weeks nearly always restrict what a group can sing. Most songs are wirtten for solo artists so to try to translate that into a 4-part harmony in a few days is almost impossible. That means unless you can find songs actually already arranged for a group, you'll never have a chance of winning the X Factor.

Its the only draw-back i can see with having the themed weeks as it does force everyone to try something different (lets face it Laura would sing Amy Winhouse and Duffy covers every week otherwise), but it does give a disadvantage to the groups. Shame really.
Why would she? Out of 3 auditions shes only sang ONE Winehouse song, and that was one of the few options, shes never sang duffy. She sang joselin brown at her audition, and the first time i saw your face in the first stage of bootcamp.

Ive heard 6 of her original songs- which sound nothing like winehouse or duffy, shes got her own style.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:12
utoia2007
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The public also has a tendency to reject the large groups in favour of sibling duos if they are available (Macdonalds, Journey South, Same Difference). I think voters have difficulty "identifying with " or "getting to know" larger groups.
Exactly right, thats why dance troups never get the votes in britians got talent.

The public and relate and identify with groups 3 or more.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:14
Shi_fs
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Groups had won X Factor in other countries, though. They would have had the same "song choice" problem. A group won the X-Factor in Australia, which is not the best example because X Factor didn't really do well there, but only a few months ago a group won the 1st season of Italian X Factor, and the show was a huge success there.

If you look at them and at some other groups that did well there and in Spain's X Factor (and also look back to G4) maybe there should be more variation in the style of the bands they accept. Like I Sette Cantanti from last year would have probably done well in those two countries, and maybe even in the UK. I feel like in the group category there's actually a lot more room to be creative and different and so far the X Factor in the UK is not taking advantage of it.

You can see a lot of groups in other countries have a lot of originality, and as groups they have a lot more tools to stand out, which doesn't really happen here. They're not always even that good, but I'm giving some examples of them just so you can imagine what creativity and decent vocal ability can do. just think about the James Bond theme week rumor that is floating around - I'd love hearing girl bands or boy bands cover Bond songs.

Here are some examples that I could find - again, not for everyone's taste, but when you compare this to, hhmmm, the MacDonald Brothers, well, you get the idea.

Italy's winners, Aram Quartet - they actually had some really good soloists there, and I don't know if they were the best, but they stood out all the way through:

Aram Quartet - Beatles Medley

Aram Quartet -
Bohemian Rhapsody


Aram Quartet - The Logical Song

Aram Quartet - Another Brick in the Wall

Aram Quartet - Per Elisa (In Italian)

Another group from Italy, "Sei Ottavi" -

Sei Ottavi - Soundtrack medley - not one single word sung here, which is pretty interesting.

Sei Ottavi - Volare

Sei Ottavi - Spiderman

And a couple from the Spanish version:


From this year's show, just started last week, this group is currently my favorite to win it:

Vocal Tempo singing Juanes

And from last year:

Sometimes - Smells Like Teen Spirit - the live version is painful, but the studio version is pretty awesome, wish I could a link to post.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:18
cherri
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What annoys me about the theme weeks is that theymake people sing songs that you would never make them sing if they were successful. By all means make them sing different kinds of songs but only ones that suit them.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:19
Sib69
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g4 should have won whichever year it was

they were amazing
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:20
utoia2007
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Yeah I agree, bands tend not to do well in Xfactor. The Dolly Rockers in 2006 should have won I reckon. Check out their video, it's awesome and shows they have talent, no matter what the judges said!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/200...ly-579816.html
That was awful
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:21
superstar111
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What annoys me about the theme weeks is that theymake people sing songs that you would never make them sing if they were successful. By all means make them sing different kinds of songs but only ones that suit them.
I agree, which is why I worry about Diana if she makes the live shows.
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:23
Sib69
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What annoys me about the theme weeks is that theymake people sing songs that you would never make them sing if they were successful. By all means make them sing different kinds of songs but only ones that suit them.
exactly

rhydian managed to pull off songs like "go west" and "get the party started" but he would never release songs like that

and no one is gonna release abba covers either

it's stupid having themed weeks
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Old 01-10-2008, 22:26
trinity2002
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What annoys me about the theme weeks is that theymake people sing songs that you would never make them sing if they were successful. By all means make them sing different kinds of songs but only ones that suit them.
I agree.

This whole concept thingy of finding someone different this year will not happen if the acts are still forced to sing songs they aren't suited to. This whole ' one trick pony' thing is ridiculous - many of the most successful artists are 'one trick ponies' it's what makes them unique.
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