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HMDI Leads |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Country
Posts: 2,907
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HMDI Leads
Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
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#2 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Yorkshire, God's County
Posts: 5,182
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Sorry, I don;t want to appear rude - but I might.
A quick search of this forum (the search button is up there ^^^) will answer this for you as it is asked almost daily!! In summary - NO - up to about 15m then you will see NO improvement at all - its all "snake oil", "smoke & mirrors" ergo - a RIP OFF! Beyond that then a well constructed cable will guard against signal errors but you are unlikely to actually see a difference in the actual image at all. (unless you are running a professional projection system with 100"+ images where every minute image artefact is evident). Monster, QED etc. are all there to make money from the gullible. (and fabulous margins for the sellers!!) I would suggest that you need to spend no more than around £2-£5 for a 1.5-2m cable MAXIMUM. I use these; http://www.cclonline.com/product-inf...ategory_id=182 And these; http://www.cclonline.com/product-inf...ategory_id=182 on lots of my installations (LCD, Plasma and projectors), they are well priced, work fine and I like the flatter profile of them. Do the search, read the responses and you will see this is the consensus from both the informed consumer and those of us "in the trade". |
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,794
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Quote:
Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
Notice there has never been any blind tests able to show any differences. |
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Reading
Posts: 27,925
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Spot the difference...
1011100001111000001111100000 and 1011100001111000001111100000 the first was from a cheap lead bought for under a tenner. The second was from a £1000 super high quality lead. Yes you are right they are identical. And that is the point. If two leads produce exactly the same sequence of ones and zeros at the TV circuitry then you will not notice any difference in quality. And if they don't produce the same sequence of ones and zeros then the effects are not going to be "deeper blacks or more vibrant reds" or any of the other nonsense you see written. it will be picture break-up and other nasties. Cables can make a difference obviously. A poorly made cable can cause all sorts of grief with the signal. However provided the cable performs the basic task of conveying the ones and zeros from the source to the destination without mangling them in the process then it matters not whether it cost 10p or £10squillion it will look exactly the same on the telly. |
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1,098
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I have 5 x HDMI leads in use, the first one cost me £25 due to my ignorance when I first had HDMI, the remainder have all cost less than £5 & give exactly the same results, however some people swear their expensive leads are better but possibly to justify their foolish purchase
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: S.West England.
Posts: 18,037
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this is all a hang over from the days of Scart, when a poor quality lead could lead to bad pictures. But that was analogue, so the quality of the materials used etc made a difference. HDMI is working on the same basis of a USB printer cable. Digital in/out. As long as the signal gets through without breakup, the picture will be perfect. Changing a normal USB cord for one of those expensive "fat/gold" USB ones doesnt improve your printouts.....
Dave |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
I dare say there are leads out there that are absolute rubbish with poor quality cable attached to dodgy connectors. I imagine they'll be easy to spot! These are digital connectors. They either work or produce fairly serious errors... Unlike Ms Newsome my income doesn't depend on advertising revenues from manufacturers. Nor am I in the business of selling or promoting equipment. But I do buy it on a professional basis and make demands of my kit that far outstrip those of the average domestic user. WE use basic HDMI leads on ALL our equipment that requires it.... There is NO possibility of an expensive HDMI lead improving the performance of your equipment. Mechanically there might be issues. For VERY long leads I might be tempted to shell out for decent shielding and a heavier cable; if only to save myself the hassle of re-pulling or reduce the risk of chaffing when it's being pulled.... And I'd tend to advise folk avoid the lottery of market stalls and Ebay unless they know what they're looking at; although there ARE bargains to be had there... |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,762
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Slightly round the bend
Posts: 12,685
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Funny that I should fall over this thread - I have just spent my afternoon helping a friend install his new Sony DAV-DZ260 home cinema system (not bad for £150 unit to be fair to it); anyway, whilst unpacking everything, he lobbed me the HDMI cable that he had bought at the same time - - - £100!!!!!
The bloke in Comet told him that it would make his pictures so much better because it was such good quality - and it was nicely constructed, but there is no way it was worth £100! Best of it is, I told him to take it back and we would get him a lead for less than a tenner, he decided to keep it to save faffing about, wasting time, and then paying for parking and stuff - - must have far too much money!
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Funny that I should fall over this thread - I have just spent my afternoon helping a friend install his new Sony DAV-DZ260 home cinema system (not bad for £150 unit to be fair to it); anyway, whilst unpacking everything, he lobbed me the HDMI cable that he had bought at the same time - - - £100!!!!!
The bloke in Comet told him that it would make his pictures so much better because it was such good quality - and it was nicely constructed, but there is no way it was worth £100! Best of it is, I told him to take it back and we would get him a lead for less than a tenner, he decided to keep it to save faffing about, wasting time, and then paying for parking and stuff - - must have far too much money!![]() ![]() ![]() I bought a new AV amp the other day and found myself silently cussing at the £50 one that was hanging up on the shop wall! I've heard of quitting while you're behind but that takes the biscuit! |
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Slightly round the bend
Posts: 12,685
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Quote:
£150 for the home cinema system and £100 for the cable???
![]() ![]() ![]() I bought a new AV amp the other day and found myself silently cussing at the £50 one that was hanging up on the shop wall! I've heard of quitting while you're behind but that takes the biscuit! |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 8,249
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It's funny the mark up on HDMI cables, why pay £50+ on a single HDMI, I buy in bulk from America for the top quality ones works out just over £6 each! For the same "quality" of these £50+ cables!
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#13 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
It's funny the mark up on HDMI cables, why pay £50+ on a single HDMI, I buy in bulk from America for the top quality ones works out just over £6 each! For the same "quality" of these £50+ cables!
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Home For The Bewildered
Posts: 86,545
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IM (not very experienced) O they are pretty much the same.
When I bought my TV and cinema system the guy wasn't sure if there was an HDMI cable supplied. So I bought their cheapest which was £20!! Turns out there was one supplied so I took it back. He told me (off the record) if I need any more in the future to buy the cheapest going as they are pretty much all the same. |
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.
(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )
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#16 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,163
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Quote:
Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.
(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )Thats what you'll hear....and its true, the picture doesnt degrade like analogue |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,338
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Can't really blame them, what with their analogue market vanishing.
Have to say a pair of Nike trainers won't make you run any faster than a cheap pair, but people feel better with the brand name. Never underestimate the power of the Placebo.
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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Quote:
Digital Signal! You either get a picture or dont!
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#19 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.
(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )Ok Take it from a professional.....Oh no you haven't.... The ONLY POSSIBLE effect you can experience is data drop out; which would NOT result in "sparklies"; it would result in serious digital drop out; specifically manifesting itself in picture freezes, audio freezes... etc... You're talking yourself into seeing these 'differences'; Pure delusion.... No technical basis for these claims. You're dealing with a digital data stream NOT an analogue signal that might be affected by noise or capacitance or any one of a thousand other things... Would one of the many other engineers in the house care to comment??? |
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Ask anyone who has seen sparklies via their HDMI cable and you'll find that your argument doesn't hold true.
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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Matt, with all due respect that's the kind of answer I'd expect from an engineer.
You guys approach stuff like this in absolutist terms. The trouble with that approach is it conveniently forgets about our past progress. What we think we know is built upon challenging what we absolutely knew to be the truth in the past. Likewise we will challenge what we know today and make further progress in the future. ![]() If that's making your brain ache then I'll ask a simple question... "Why does the digital signal need to include error correction bits?" Could it be that in the process of transferring the data stream from one place to another that not all the 0's and 1's arrive as they left? |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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Quote:
I might as well ask someone who's seen Leprachauns at the bottom of their garden!
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
Posts: 7,035
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more important now is getting a 1.3 cable to me, to carry the extra bandwith........... just like USB2.0 cable
and make your money go further |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Hardly a worthy riposte.
Sadly; there's really no mystique to this. No 'black majic' no intangibles. Either the 'message' gets through in decodable form or it doesn't. "Error correction bits" (as you call them) exist only to act as a check to ensure that the whole message gets through.... When it doesn't the systems fails; totally. End of.... when it does the system works totally. End of..... |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,718
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Quote:
Ok
Take it from a professional.....Oh no you haven't.... The ONLY POSSIBLE effect you can experience is data drop out; which would NOT result in "sparklies"; it would result in serious digital drop out; specifically manifesting itself in picture freezes, audio freezes... etc... You're talking yourself into seeing these 'differences'; Pure delusion.... No technical basis for these claims. You're dealing with a digital data stream NOT an analogue signal that might be affected by noise or capacitance or any one of a thousand other things... Would one of the many other engineers in the house care to comment??? Of course as we all know there is no difference between a cheap working cable and an expensive working cable and at short distances they virtually all work. Anyone who says there is an analogue type mechanism with subtle differences between cheap and expensive cable is just plain wrong. HDMI is though a horrible interface because it uses twisted pair for very high data rates, if it had been properly designed it would have used coax and would have worked reliably over very long distances. Because of the specification long cables are horrendously expensive as there's a lot of difficult engineering in them. However HDMI is was it is and at least over short distances it's okay. |
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- - must have far too much money!

Take it from a professional.....