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Old 05-10-2008, 14:49
dazb
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Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
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Old 05-10-2008, 15:07
LCDMAN
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Sorry, I don;t want to appear rude - but I might.

A quick search of this forum (the search button is up there ^^^) will answer this for you as it is asked almost daily!!

In summary - NO - up to about 15m then you will see NO improvement at all - its all "snake oil", "smoke & mirrors" ergo - a RIP OFF! Beyond that then a well constructed cable will guard against signal errors but you are unlikely to actually see a difference in the actual image at all. (unless you are running a professional projection system with 100"+ images where every minute image artefact is evident).

Monster, QED etc. are all there to make money from the gullible. (and fabulous margins for the sellers!!)

I would suggest that you need to spend no more than around £2-£5 for a 1.5-2m cable MAXIMUM.

I use these;
http://www.cclonline.com/product-inf...ategory_id=182

And these;
http://www.cclonline.com/product-inf...ategory_id=182

on lots of my installations (LCD, Plasma and projectors), they are well priced, work fine and I like the flatter profile of them.

Do the search, read the responses and you will see this is the consensus from both the informed consumer and those of us "in the trade".
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Old 05-10-2008, 15:08
Nigel Goodwin
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Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
It's a load of rubbish - feel free to waste £45 on a lead if you want to, but it won't give you the slightest improvement whatsoever.

Notice there has never been any blind tests able to show any differences.
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Old 05-10-2008, 15:11
chrisjr
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Spot the difference...

1011100001111000001111100000

and

1011100001111000001111100000

the first was from a cheap lead bought for under a tenner. The second was from a £1000 super high quality lead.

Yes you are right they are identical. And that is the point. If two leads produce exactly the same sequence of ones and zeros at the TV circuitry then you will not notice any difference in quality.

And if they don't produce the same sequence of ones and zeros then the effects are not going to be "deeper blacks or more vibrant reds" or any of the other nonsense you see written. it will be picture break-up and other nasties.

Cables can make a difference obviously. A poorly made cable can cause all sorts of grief with the signal. However provided the cable performs the basic task of conveying the ones and zeros from the source to the destination without mangling them in the process then it matters not whether it cost 10p or £10squillion it will look exactly the same on the telly.
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Old 11-10-2008, 15:42
paulr2006
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I have 5 x HDMI leads in use, the first one cost me £25 due to my ignorance when I first had HDMI, the remainder have all cost less than £5 & give exactly the same results, however some people swear their expensive leads are better but possibly to justify their foolish purchase
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:49
David (2)
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this is all a hang over from the days of Scart, when a poor quality lead could lead to bad pictures. But that was analogue, so the quality of the materials used etc made a difference. HDMI is working on the same basis of a USB printer cable. Digital in/out. As long as the signal gets through without breakup, the picture will be perfect. Changing a normal USB cord for one of those expensive "fat/gold" USB ones doesnt improve your printouts.....

Dave
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Old 11-10-2008, 16:57
Matt Quinn
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Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead, i have a 32 inch Toshiba TV HD Ready and SKY HD and PS3. The HMDI lead which i have at the moment are fine but if i can get a better picture by spending £45 on one i would. So what are your thoughts on this is it just a load of rubbish or are there significant advantages to splashing out on a new one. According to Clare Newsome who posts over at whathifi forums and is a Consumer Electronic Specialist she believes there is distinct advantage to shelling out more on a HMDI lead. Heres a quote from her. Also, the supplied HDMI will work, but you won't get the best from your box: even a minor upgrade (say, to Cambridge Audio HDMI at £30; even better to QED HDMI Performance at £45) should bring noticeable benefits.
And Ms Newsome's technical qualifications are??????

I dare say there are leads out there that are absolute rubbish with poor quality cable attached to dodgy connectors. I imagine they'll be easy to spot! These are digital connectors. They either work or produce fairly serious errors...

Unlike Ms Newsome my income doesn't depend on advertising revenues from manufacturers. Nor am I in the business of selling or promoting equipment. But I do buy it on a professional basis and make demands of my kit that far outstrip those of the average domestic user. WE use basic HDMI leads on ALL our equipment that requires it....

There is NO possibility of an expensive HDMI lead improving the performance of your equipment.

Mechanically there might be issues. For VERY long leads I might be tempted to shell out for decent shielding and a heavier cable; if only to save myself the hassle of re-pulling or reduce the risk of chaffing when it's being pulled.... And I'd tend to advise folk avoid the lottery of market stalls and Ebay unless they know what they're looking at; although there ARE bargains to be had there...
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Old 11-10-2008, 18:05
sancheeez
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Should i buy an expensive HMDI lead
No.

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Old 11-10-2008, 18:54
fat controller
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Funny that I should fall over this thread - I have just spent my afternoon helping a friend install his new Sony DAV-DZ260 home cinema system (not bad for £150 unit to be fair to it); anyway, whilst unpacking everything, he lobbed me the HDMI cable that he had bought at the same time - - - £100!!!!!

The bloke in Comet told him that it would make his pictures so much better because it was such good quality - and it was nicely constructed, but there is no way it was worth £100!

Best of it is, I told him to take it back and we would get him a lead for less than a tenner, he decided to keep it to save faffing about, wasting time, and then paying for parking and stuff - - must have far too much money!
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Old 11-10-2008, 19:07
Matt Quinn
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Funny that I should fall over this thread - I have just spent my afternoon helping a friend install his new Sony DAV-DZ260 home cinema system (not bad for £150 unit to be fair to it); anyway, whilst unpacking everything, he lobbed me the HDMI cable that he had bought at the same time - - - £100!!!!!

The bloke in Comet told him that it would make his pictures so much better because it was such good quality - and it was nicely constructed, but there is no way it was worth £100!

Best of it is, I told him to take it back and we would get him a lead for less than a tenner, he decided to keep it to save faffing about, wasting time, and then paying for parking and stuff - - must have far too much money!
£150 for the home cinema system and £100 for the cable???

I bought a new AV amp the other day and found myself silently cussing at the £50 one that was hanging up on the shop wall!

I've heard of quitting while you're behind but that takes the biscuit!
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Old 11-10-2008, 20:11
fat controller
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£150 for the home cinema system and £100 for the cable???

I bought a new AV amp the other day and found myself silently cussing at the £50 one that was hanging up on the shop wall!

I've heard of quitting while you're behind but that takes the biscuit!
I know! I couldn't believe it when he told me the price - and me being Mr Tactful, told him that he had been robbed blind; I was even more amazed that he didn't take it back when I told him I'd get him one for less than a tenner.
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Old 11-10-2008, 20:21
Ash_735
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It's funny the mark up on HDMI cables, why pay £50+ on a single HDMI, I buy in bulk from America for the top quality ones works out just over £6 each! For the same "quality" of these £50+ cables!
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Old 11-10-2008, 21:46
Matt Quinn
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It's funny the mark up on HDMI cables, why pay £50+ on a single HDMI, I buy in bulk from America for the top quality ones works out just over £6 each! For the same "quality" of these £50+ cables!
It is madness indeed... I'm just in from a spot of shopping in Asda in Livingston, I happened to notice they have perfectly respectable 3m HDMI leads for £8....
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Old 11-10-2008, 23:40
Jimmy Connors
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IM (not very experienced) O they are pretty much the same.

When I bought my TV and cinema system the guy wasn't sure if there was an HDMI cable supplied. So I bought their cheapest which was £20!!

Turns out there was one supplied so I took it back.

He told me (off the record) if I need any more in the future to buy the cheapest going as they are pretty much all the same.
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Old 11-10-2008, 23:56
Chris Frost
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Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.

(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )
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Old 11-10-2008, 23:58
MD_Zero
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Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.

(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )
Digital Signal! You either get a picture or dont!

Thats what you'll hear....and its true, the picture doesnt degrade like analogue
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Old 12-10-2008, 00:00
stvn758
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Can't really blame them, what with their analogue market vanishing.

Have to say a pair of Nike trainers won't make you run any faster than a cheap pair, but people feel better with the brand name.

Never underestimate the power of the Placebo.
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Old 12-10-2008, 00:09
Chris Frost
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Digital Signal! You either get a picture or dont!
Ask anyone who has seen sparklies via their HDMI cable and you'll find that your argument doesn't hold true.
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Old 12-10-2008, 00:24
Matt Quinn
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Well, contrary to many other's experience here I have seen picture quality differences between budget, mid-range and premium HDMI cables.

(waits for chorus of "Oh no you haven't" )


Ok Take it from a professional.....

Oh no you haven't....

The ONLY POSSIBLE effect you can experience is data drop out; which would NOT result in "sparklies"; it would result in serious digital drop out; specifically manifesting itself in picture freezes, audio freezes... etc...

You're talking yourself into seeing these 'differences'; Pure delusion.... No technical basis for these claims. You're dealing with a digital data stream NOT an analogue signal that might be affected by noise or capacitance or any one of a thousand other things...

Would one of the many other engineers in the house care to comment???
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Old 12-10-2008, 00:26
Matt Quinn
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Ask anyone who has seen sparklies via their HDMI cable and you'll find that your argument doesn't hold true.
I might as well ask someone who's seen Leprachauns at the bottom of their garden!
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:25
Chris Frost
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Matt, with all due respect that's the kind of answer I'd expect from an engineer.

You guys approach stuff like this in absolutist terms. The trouble with that approach is it conveniently forgets about our past progress. What we think we know is built upon challenging what we absolutely knew to be the truth in the past. Likewise we will challenge what we know today and make further progress in the future.

If that's making your brain ache then I'll ask a simple question...

"Why does the digital signal need to include error correction bits?"

Could it be that in the process of transferring the data stream from one place to another that not all the 0's and 1's arrive as they left?
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:27
Chris Frost
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I might as well ask someone who's seen Leprachauns at the bottom of their garden!
Hardly a worthy riposte.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:32
niall campbell
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more important now is getting a 1.3 cable to me, to carry the extra bandwith........... just like USB2.0 cable

and make your money go further
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:02
Matt Quinn
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Hardly a worthy riposte.
It was hardly a worthy parry.... I am indeed a qualified technician; but I'm better known as a creative. And am fairly old school with a keen interest in technological history... Blinkered 'brown coat' thinking isn't my game...

Sadly; there's really no mystique to this. No 'black majic' no intangibles. Either the 'message' gets through in decodable form or it doesn't. "Error correction bits" (as you call them) exist only to act as a check to ensure that the whole message gets through.... When it doesn't the systems fails; totally. End of.... when it does the system works totally. End of.....
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:22
bobcar
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Ok Take it from a professional.....

Oh no you haven't....

The ONLY POSSIBLE effect you can experience is data drop out; which would NOT result in "sparklies"; it would result in serious digital drop out; specifically manifesting itself in picture freezes, audio freezes... etc...

You're talking yourself into seeing these 'differences'; Pure delusion.... No technical basis for these claims. You're dealing with a digital data stream NOT an analogue signal that might be affected by noise or capacitance or any one of a thousand other things...

Would one of the many other engineers in the house care to comment???
Because of the nature of the digital transmission over HDMI (on a pixel basis with no compression) it is possible to get individual errors that would cause sparklies - this is in contrast to say an MPEG stream where any uncorrected error will cause horrible effects such as picture freezes. However the cable would have to be just on the border line for this to happen (a bit worse and it would be complete garbage - a bit better an no problems at all).

Of course as we all know there is no difference between a cheap working cable and an expensive working cable and at short distances they virtually all work. Anyone who says there is an analogue type mechanism with subtle differences between cheap and expensive cable is just plain wrong.

HDMI is though a horrible interface because it uses twisted pair for very high data rates, if it had been properly designed it would have used coax and would have worked reliably over very long distances. Because of the specification long cables are horrendously expensive as there's a lot of difficult engineering in them. However HDMI is was it is and at least over short distances it's okay.
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