what they said...


anyhow, back to Rachel - lots of performers have very troubled private lives - Leadbelly was in prison when he recorded, if I remember rightly. anyhow - look at Amy Winehouse - she appears to have a stupid lifestyle, look at Britney, same there. being stupid, does not stop you being a good performer - although I may except Pete D and Shane McGowan from that remark, as PD is daft and SM is too out of it to perform sometimes, as is Wino.

people can overcome their backgrounds, but let's not use it as a reason to vote FOR her either. ban sob-stories.

Leon may be disliked by you and some of your fellow fans of another X Factor finalist, but that doesn't mean that other people don't like him. In fact, Leon seems to be gaining more popularity. Plenty of positive remarks and press recently. The press don't play any active part in "audience manipulation" and I very much doubt they were "shocked" that Leon won. He had been receiving the most votes during most of the live finals and continued to do so on the night of the final. The right person won and Ofcom confirmed that the result wasn't 'fixed'. Even now, some envious people still won't accept the result. They should stop dwelling on the past and look towards the future.

Do you really think Leon won just from his 'singing talent' then? It looked much more likely that it was a combination of the teenie girls voting for him in their droves because of his appearance (Rhydian clearly lost out on that area), and the way Simon & Co turned it into a battle of countries rather than performers...

Simon was well aware from the year before that his attempts to get rid of the Proclaimer-lites failed, as Louis brought the whole nationality issue into it (and they went a long way on minimal ability)... so when he could see the marketing opportunities from getting Leon as the winner, it made perfect sense to try and affect the vote in a similar way. Of course people from all over the UK voted for all of the acts, but even in the way the final was broadcast, as if it were rival countries competing, certainly had an effect.

It's certainly not an insult to think that a Scots person would like to see a Scot win the thing, particularly with the rise of Scotland's desires for independence?

Good luck to Leon, he took advantage of the situation that presented itself, and i'm sure he'll carve out a nice career for himself.

The one problem with this entire theory is that the Scottish vote and the teen girl vote (which the McDonald brothers certainly benefited from) wasn't enough for them to win - it may have got them further in the competition but to ultimately win you need a broader range of voters.

I believe part of the reason the win caused some controversey (i do not agree it was as much as some have made out - DS can often give a distorted view of what the general public actually think) was because unlike the 3 previous winners he was very much a novice that had basically walked in off the street and won the competition beating competitors with years more experience and vocal training.

Leon was very much the raw product that had developed over the course of the show - thus providing the all important journey and when it came down to it IMO he gave the better performance on the night. Many even on here have agreed with that (of course many also haven't).

Whether his win was manipulated or not to be honest it doesn't bother me as personally I like his voice and am happy to get the chance to follow his career.

Rachel has had a troubled past but good on her for turning her life around IMO She didnt do anything really bad at bootcamp, she wasnt that rude, or violent. She merely stood up to Simon and said what a lot of people think

How fortunate that we have you here to put us right, then, Beer.

It certainly is an insult to suggest that the Scots, unlike the English, have no critical faculties and will blindly support any fellow-Scot in any contest.

I fully agree, and it is even more than a troubled past, it is a troubled childhood that bore consequences on her later life.

Yeah true, that must have affected her very badly You could argue that she made those choices in her childhood but she has changed and become better

Harold Shipman had a bad childhood too. Excuses, excuses.

I had a lousy one but I've never hurt anybody as a result.

You're comparing Rachel with Harold Shipman? Lets not condone or even excuse her behaviour but she's trying to make something of her life, she didnt kill anyone?!

Amy86, you're in for a shock on Saturday.

It will be absolute car crash tv where Rachel is concerned

I'm sure on the Xtra Factor it showed her even messing up lyrics at her very first audition.

I hate the way people always moan about "give them a chance" when they have dubious backgrounds.

At the end of the day she has the "choice", she dug the hole, she's nearly out of it, if she continues to make good "choices" and performs well on Saturday then people will grow to like her.

I just can't see it turning out like that.

Oh my GOD! How were they?? They were just saying as an example of giving excuses for bad behaviour. Talk about hysterical reaction

Yeh, course you're a saint right :sleep:

It's got nothing to do with envy. It's not even a serious singing show.

The show is about how you manipulate the viewers into thinking someone is special... that's all.

I'm not here to put anybody right.

If anybody understands the way the media and in this case TV companies work then I can have a like minded discussion.

I expect the effects of the show to bring about people bonding with a contestant to high levels, sometimes extreme but that's living the X Factor world as it unravels.

But, that's not what is being discussed.

It is, but at the end of the day, Simon's aim is to find marketable recording artists, and he won't push people that he thinks are not good.
I agree that he may discard talented artists with a strong personality that do not fit his own purposes, but the ones that do well have to be talented.
I think that this country would benefit from a genuine talent competition where artists are allowed to be themselves and are rewarded for being original, writing their own songs, musicians etc...
The problem is that usually the more serious programmes loose out in terms of viewing figures to the more lightweight, entertaining ones.

Leon won fair and square last year and there is one very obvious reason why.

The song with Kylie Minogue gave the public what they wanted and it was a great double act.

Whilst Rhydian got lumbered with the once "darling" Katherine Jenkins who came out tarted up for all she was worth and probably turned off every female viewer, Kylie and Leon pulled of a sexy genuine performance without overdoing it, pure class.

At that point I went on to paddypower and took the 8/1 they offered on Leon with a tenner down.

Well done Leon.

Sorry I did go a bit overboard there!

And no, I am not a saint.

The point I was trying to make is that it's always someone elses's fault, isn't it? It was always down to someone else that blah blah blah did this or that etc etc. I accept that there are times when things are taken out of the 'victim's' hands but nine times out of ten it's about choices.

Someone posted something on here a few weeks back about how all the good kids never get praised in class but the naughty ones get praised and/rewarded if they can be quiet for half an hour. That's my feeling here.

Her past is an issue because the show made it one.

Right from the start she has been cast as needed a second chance because of the bad luck in her life.

Ok, if we take it at face value, it was bad luck her getting pregnant at 13, and again twice more until it was bad luck that the authorities took those kids away. Again bad luck that she took drugs and she upset ever neighbor she has been next too. And of course bad luck that all the fathers of her 5 children have decided not to stick around, all bad luck.

TBH did she not get that second chance with her 4th child, or was it the 5th.

She did say that singing was all she ever wanted, so maybe babies 4 and 5 are just bad luck.

The fact that some people don't like her now may also be bad luck.

But she does have a great voice.

If they could keep the sob stories out of it, I may not have cared.

Rhydian was robbed that night.

If only the majority saw it that way. Unfortunately, there's far too many perfectionists in this Country who will pick at anyone's faults rather than take a good look at their own lives.

Fair enough then LB I get what you meant
Sounds like Rachel may be out 1st week - oh dear...
Reminds me sort of The Unconventionals - good audition but the 1st week was terrible wasnt it?

Poor old Rhydian! Outsung in The X Factor and robbed on the way home? It really wasn't his night, was it?

PMSL