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Home cinema recommendations with specific requirements! |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19
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Home cinema recommendations with specific requirements!
Hi guys,
Apologies if this is repeated anywhere, I've not seen it anywhere. I've recently invested in a good full HD TV and Sky HD but am slightly lacking in the sound department (something I've never researched). I need the following: A home cinema system, 5.1 will do nicely Wireless rear speakers Three 5.1 inputs from my Sky HD, DVD player and Apple TV. Don't really need a DVD player built in, just the inputs - I think they all have HDMI and digital optical out. I've seen Philips HTS335W http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5951...ema-syste.html and Panasonic SC-PT350 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-SC.../dp/B000QDIRZG Definitely looking in the budget line despite my requirements! Thanks, Chris |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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If you've bought a good TV, these will probably be a sound downgrade. My advice is don't bother till you can do it properly.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,206
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The Panasonic does not have 3 digital inputs it has 1 and I doubt the philips one does either. The 350 is also last years model and has been replace by the SC-PT467. These are self contained items to give you 5.1 sound from DVD, pro-logic or self devised surround from TV/Radio/CD and thats it.
They are not designed to plug multiple Digital sources into. If you want do do this you need to be thinking along the lines of a proper HomeCinema Reciever such as http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_m...detail&Pid=390 then choose some speakers to go with it. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
If you've bought a good TV, these will probably be a sound downgrade. My advice is don't bother till you can do it properly.
I mean it's doesn't have 5 speakers to start with... |
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#5 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
Posts: 7,035
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you need HDMI 1.3 at least in your amp
only 3 decent good ones with 3 or 4 inputs. HDMI is the new scart http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_m...detail&Pid=388 http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/pro...8_5935286.html Sony STR-DG820 http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...4791&langId=-1 my money is on the sony you will need a speaker package with it, but just buy a cheap set as the amp will last years and is the most important thing http://www.richersounds.com/splashpage.php it is well noted modern tellys have poor sound to fit in a very small space |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Was afraid I'd be flamed for saying that, seems most agree with me. I'm an onkyo man myself, and the 606 is the kick off point for HDMI 1.3 switching. You don't per se have to worry about HD audio decoding, you'll never use it in an amp unless you both know what you are doing and are prepared to sacrifice convenience for marginal audio improvement, which you won't hear till you've spend a grand on your speakers. Any 3 input amp with HDMI 1.3 will do the biz for you, no out of the box system can do this currently, and BTW wireless rear speakers are a contradiction in terms. You either run speaker wire or power wire to whatever speakers you have.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19
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Quote:
and BTW wireless rear speakers are a contradiction in terms. You either run speaker wire or power wire to whatever speakers you have.
However I have power sockets elsewhere in the room but there's no way I could run a cable from front to rear unfortunately ![]() Thanks for the replies - may be I'll look at Cambridge Audio amp, as I've got friends working there! |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Cambridge can be OK, and at least you should get some straight talking from your mates. Re wires, I'm guessing you have wood floors or something? Fine wire behind the beading? One of those stick on conduits on the skirting board? Drill through to outside, and back in at the rear of the room? I do this for a living, and I've had success with all of those methods.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cornwall, UK
Posts: 2,014
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I agree that wireless speakers are pretty pointless, unless you are prepared to spend serious money. IIRC, a company called Canton were getting good reviews for their wireless speakers a while ago. Thing is, for what they cost, you could buy a decent set of wired speakers, and pay an installer to fit the cables.
If you want to spend just a few hundred, go secondhand. Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Arcam, and Onkyo make good AV amps that'll run for at least 10 years without any problems. Buy one that's 4 or 5 years old for a third of the new price. If you are prepared to use larger or non-matching speakers, you can get some real bargains. Unless they get damp, or are seriously abused, speakers will last practically for ever. A pair of "bookshelf" speakers for the rears, a pair of "stereo" speakers for the fronts, and a decent centre, could be found for around £175 secondhand. Couple these with a £150 secondhand AV amp, and you'll have a system that'll do your new TV justice, and beat any home-cinema-in-a-box setup. I wouldn't worry too much about HDMI sockets on the amp - put the video straight to the TV and the audio to the amp. Get a universal remote to handle all the extra switching. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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I disagree with that I'm afraid. If you are to buy an AV amp, there is now little point in buying one which does not switch HDMI and is capable of HD audio. ALL future devices will be HDMI, I now have 5 HDMI sources myself, and none which are not, though I might buy a Wii at Xmas. Even £30 DVD players have it, skyHD, freesat are HDMI only. You need HDMI switching.
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#11 |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cornwall, UK
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Quote:
I disagree with that I'm afraid. If you are to buy an AV amp, there is now little point in buying one which does not switch HDMI and is capable of HD audio. ALL future devices will be HDMI, I now have 5 HDMI sources myself, and none which are not, though I might buy a Wii at Xmas. Even £30 DVD players have it, skyHD, freesat are HDMI only. You need HDMI switching.
I feel that sound quality and having enough audio inputs are the main things to consider when buying an AV amp. Lack of video inputs/switching is easily solved by other means. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Not in the case of HDMI, you need at least 1 input on your amp, and a separate switcher if going that route. HDMI is not just video is it. You cannot get HD audio by any other means unless buying a top of the range player with 6 channel analogue out, and have a 6 channel input, like you do on your £1000 Arcam. You might find an Onkyo 604 going cheap, as it doesn't do DD TrueHD, an unnecessary feature as the player will do that for you. That's the kind of thing to buy 2nd hand, and add a switcher to that if you need more HDMIs.
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#13 |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Quote:
Not in the case of HDMI, you need at least 1 input on your amp, and a separate switcher if going that route. HDMI is not just video is it. You cannot get HD audio by any other means unless buying a top of the range player with 6 channel analogue out, and have a 6 channel input, like you do on your £1000 Arcam. You might find an Onkyo 604 going cheap, as it doesn't do DD TrueHD, an unnecessary feature as the player will do that for you. That's the kind of thing to buy 2nd hand, and add a switcher to that if you need more HDMIs.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 19
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I'm opting right now for the Sony HT-SS1300.
I know it hasn't got full range of Dolby doodahs but as my first entry into home cinema it looks okay. Also decided I can do something with the rear wires given I have a wooden floor and skirting! Thanks for your help all
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Looks OK. The speakers will be shit, but will do just fine for a good while I daresay. The kit itself should be reasonably future proof, you'd be able to upgrade the speakers another time.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
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Quote:
Point taken about HD audio, but the kind of person that's trying to decide whether it's worth spending more than £300 on an audio system isn't really in that market.
![]() In fact HD audio can now be got got for under £300 providing the user has BD. Sony 820 for £250 and Yammy speakers for £50. Won't sound exceptional but it's a start. £400 is about the minimum I'd say for HD audio. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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I don't know about that, going by some here they want the system to do everything for £300.
![]() In fact HD audio can now be got got for under £300 providing the user has BD. Sony 820 for £250 and Yammy speakers for £50. Won't sound exceptional but it's a start. £400 is about the minimum I'd say for HD audio. I'm not that au fait with the very latest in audio specs - I tend to read up on a subject when I'm thinking about upgrading. Having spent £2500 on my current AV amp and speakers less than 3 years ago, I'm not ready to spend at the moment. New TV and iMac have taken care of the last few month's "pocket money". From the little that I have read, HD audio is just double the sample rate - correct? The last I heard, HD audio was being compared to SACD - nice idea, but more spec than 99% of consumers actually need or would appreciate. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Would you really be able to tell the difference between HD audio and normal DD 5.1 at that price?
Moving up in quality and budget the difference would be more apparent. £400 is a good price to enter into HD audio, you could always upgrade the speakers at a later date. Quote:
I'm not that au fait with the very latest in audio specs - I tend to read up on a subject when I'm thinking about upgrading. Having spent £2500 on my current AV amp and speakers less than 3 years ago, I'm not ready to spend at the moment. New TV and iMac have taken care of the last few month's "pocket money". Quote:
From the little that I have read, HD audio is just double the sample rate - correct? The last I heard, HD audio was being compared to SACD - nice idea, but more spec than 99% of consumers actually need or would appreciate.
Not everyone is interested in HD audio, just the enthusiast I think, but if you have an ear for good quality it certainly delivers. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Aberfeldy
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http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...id=YAMA-NSP110
speakers £50 or £ 80 black sony amp £250 http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...Y-STRDG820-BLK so thats £300 with a future proof system you will be nuts to get anything else and you can add on to it |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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HD audio, clockworks, you are the target audience. But everyone can benefit, it's CD quality over all 6 channels, which is much more than twice as good as standard DD. That's like iTunes in comparison, and I'm sure with your kit you can tell the difference between iTunes and CD!!! An amp at around the £300 mark is up do delivering a good part of this extra quality, speakers under £4-500 I doubt it. So I think it's worth investing in the electronics, since the speakers are the easiest thing to upgrade, can be done any time. They make such a gratifyingly big difference when you've spent your hard earned on them too, and of course can be a style statement too.
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#21 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
HD audio, clockworks, you are the target audience. But everyone can benefit, it's CD quality over all 6 channels, which is much more than twice as good as standard DD.
![]() Lionsgate is one of the better companies for releasing 7.1 material, I'm like a Cheshire Cat when my amp lights up the two surround back channels.
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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I know the OP has already made his decision, but for what it's worth I haven't found an all-in-one system worth bothering with as either a long term investment or as a stop gap. They're just too compromised.
Set-up limitations: No speaker distance adjustment at all ( ) or only in feet/30cm increments. A decent AV amp allows adjustment in 10cm increments but even this is too course for accurate time alignment, so I and other professional installers will move the speakers or seating position to get better timing. Done properly this adjustment alone is worth more than an upgrade to HD audio. Special connectors: They make a system easier to set up and save the manufacture some money, but you can't easily upgrade the speakers without butchering the cables. Passive subs: This is where the bass speaker connects to the amp box with speaker wire (and a special connector Incidentally, cheap passive subs from all-in-one systems have almost no s/hand value. Cheap, but poor value: Have a look at the s/hand prices of these systems. They sell for peanuts. A proper s/hand AV amp and speaker package might cost a little more but will hold it's value far better when it comes time to upgrade. I can see the appeal of all-in-ones. Loads of people own them and if they've never heard a decent bugdet AV system then they'll probably be very happy. But for anyone taking the first step to building a good AV systems then all-in-ones are a bad first purchase IMO. |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Passive subs: This is where the bass speaker connects to the amp box with speaker wire (and a special connector
Incidentally, cheap passive subs from all-in-one systems have almost no s/hand value. An active sub has it's own dedicated channel, it's completely separate from all the other channels. Another downside to using a passive sub is the drain on the amp, whereas an active sub just requires a mono signal as it has it's own amp/power. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 6,462
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I suppose it all depends how precise one wants to be about the definition of 5.1
IMO mixing the bass track in to the front L & R speaker channels then using the sub's crossover to extract it is a perfectly valid approach if gear is up to the job. This method is used in some high-end stereo speakers with built-in powered subs. But of course we're not talking high-end here. ![]() You're correct about the power required to drive the bass. It takes a lot of grunt. You know what most aspiring all-in-one owners will say though... "It's got 1000W. Says so in the brochure/web site" You and I both know that this figure is achieved by running low Ohm speakers - typically 4 Ohm - and that the power is measured for a fraction of a second, at the most efficient frequency, with only one speaker driven, and they often omit to mention the horrendous distortion. There are lies, damned lies, and manufacturers specifications
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#25 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Deacon, my reply was tailored to clockworks' kit, he has a 5.1 analogue intput now. I agree completely with Mr Frost, but occasionally needs must, and that Sony system is the best of a bad lot as far as I can see. Can't see any reason why you cannot connect the bass 'speaker level' output to most active subs on the market. It should work, and hopefully that will be dedicated LFE, though no absolute guarantee! Connecting up something like Cantons or Gallo sub/sat speakers to such a system would certainly give you a performance improvement, though there are still various handicaps. But unless anyone has sufficient power of persuasion, his mind is made up. Still, others may benefit from our little discussion.
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) or only in feet/30cm increments. 