Lata Mangeshkar is classed as the most technically proficient singer the world has had amongst females. Like you were talking about ranges, well Lata went through something like 50 notes over many octaves in one song once. I think Whitney and Mariah have the same few notes at the same pitch - in fact all those songs do. It's very rare you come across a commercial song where numerous notes are song (well more than the 3 Mariah, Whitney and X Factor contestants use) and very low or very high octaves - it's usually mir range.

I never saw Brenda and Beverley as shouters - they sang loud - difference being noticing the shouting. Nikki shouted. Perfect for musical theatre boom.

But anyway - I think Lata Mangeshkar's appeal probably reaches far more people over her decades than singers in the west could have ever dreamed of. That is what I mean about the culture of the singing and how people like quality.

That could be true. Well noticed.

Again you appear to be transposing your views and preferences onto entire cultures. You are not the world judge of quality. You're merely another listener. And what may appear quality to you is shrill caterwauling to the next person.

No I'm not.

Indians and people from India love Lata Mangeshkar. Admired the world over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lata_Mangeshkar

People love Bjork, Fiona Apple - actual artists who write their music and songs.

All the above are self made.

Shouty whiney singers are record contract made and pushed and manipulated upon the masses. It's common knowledge.

What are you talking abotu I am doing it? Sorry I don't have that power.

Your paragraph suits Simon Cowell with his job as he works on the X Factor.

In fact, you indicate an inability to accept that people from different countries do not accept what is force fed to us via satellite/cable manipulation. This is what they talk about "breaking" america.

If they were good - why "break" america. Do you know how little these people actually earn then from record companies? Do you know how much debt they rack up and how the clothes and the cars and flights are not theirs? That's a massive manipulation and you're saying it's not true? wow.

Why "America"? Why not India -...

well this is what the thread is about... You're making this personal by saying that different cultures do not listen to different music. They do.

Once again it is you making the big, ridiculous claims such as:

"Lata Mangeshkar is classed as the most technically proficient singer the world has had"

Similarly Bjork - personally I love her, but I know far more people who find her irritating.

Fiona Apple is just a bog standard singer/somgwriter who had some success in the 90s - there's far more examples of Fiona Apples in the world than there are the singers you seem desperate to so despise. There are very, very few examples of what you would class as "shouty whiney singers" with record contracts. Again I think you're tilting at a non-existent windmill here.

Back to the point of the thread... it's about culturally people like different music.

Lata Mangeshkar was classically trained throughout her life. Ask George Harrison and Yehudi Menuhin about her. She is deemed as technically and classically perfect. It's not ridiculous in the slightest if you know the music.

Fiona Apple sold herself. Bjork did too. Musically they made their own music. Back to the point - they did not rely upon massive marketing budgets and other musicians to do their work. Now that is the point.

Who makes them? Do they make themselves or does Simon Cowell produce a show to manipulate people to buy the product?

For every Bjork and Fiona Apple, there are hundreds of just as talented artists who don't make it, your argument is vitally flawed

My argument that Culturally people listen to different songs or that Bjork and Fiona Apple are self made?

I don't think I made any comment about people just as talented (which is subjective - what is just as talented to you is not to me) not making it. Nothing to do with me or the thread.

I think the thread is being grossly misinterpreted and going way off tangent. A few people have replied in light of the discussion so you should get an idea of what it's about if the first post takes you off tangent.

What an awful post.

You could put that arguement a different way and say Laura and Diana sing in a one dimentional way.

It's rediculous you are only picking on Alexandra, Leona type of singers.

You seem to have some sort of an agenda against these type of singers. Personally I like both types but its people like you who just pick on one type and say they are 'bad singers' who are the real joke.

The thread is about how in the west, video channels feed people are culturally fed a certain singer around the world.

The thread is not about - I'm unsure what you are trying to say.

Your final paragraph for instance; it's completely unrelated to the first post. So I guess in accuracy, I am not a joke.

I think the problem is people are struggling to understand where you are coming from. You seem to using the fact that some western singers like Bjork and Fiona Apple write their own material to back up your (quite valid) hypothesis that all cultures tend to like the music they're pre-conditioned to enjoy from childhood.

They're non-transposable facts and as a result it's like wrestling with a blancmange trying to debate with you.

I responded to this specific comment. on tangent I think

like what they said

People? Numerous people have commented perfectly well to the first post.

I think, well I think it's quite straight forward flagpole. I can't reply to people who don't like the fact I mention a singer - where mentioning the singer isn't related to the gyst of the post. You have to understand, I am not going to reply to people who make personal remarks to me or make indirect attacks too - because it will cause disrepute.

Anyway, you don't need to debate. You don't need to be offended by the post. You can discuss the point - people are culturally and in some culturally manipulated, to like a certain type of music.

The diversities of cultures and their diversities of tastes in music highlight there are pre-cursors to what people like and the publicity campaign of the show and mass production of cheap music highlights that you can tell people something is good when it is not.

Which is something I have replied perfectly well to with the same response worded differently.

Would you like to respond to the discussion in state because this is just not referring to the first post. Check the responses that were on topic to see what the thread is about.

Now you touch on a dilemma I've had all my life, I like what I like and that is normally music with a "minority" following. but who am I to say what the majority should or not like? just because I go out of my way to listen to music from all over the world, why should I expect everyone else to.. Music is wonderful lets just be happy that it brings so much joy to people without condemning people for what they enjoy.

Who is being condemned?

If we were all happy about what the music industry produced, we wouldn't have forums and development and we wouldn't have people upset if people didn't think some music was good.

It works in all kinds of ways.

Just a tad difficult wouldn't you say? Or are you suggesting asking them via a seance.

You know who god dammit, lets remain sensible

Or are you not as clever as I think you are

Anyway, goodnight god bless

You are of course correct. The Indian population, particularly the Hindi-speaking proportion, have been culturally manipulated to like Lata Mangeshkar's music given she's performed on nearly 1000 Bollywood soundtracks.

Nobody is being condemned at all. What gave you that idea? There is no condemnation. It is a straight forward thread about culture and music.

How do you account for the popularity of singers or groups that don't release videos then?

If you want an example Pearl Jam have not made a studio video since their first album yet have sold more than 60 million albums world wide. Oh and they write their own material and play their own instruments too.

Possibly but she's classically trained, for all her life. She's taught all over the world too and respected by musicians the world over. She has only lasted (in light of her sister) only because of her brilliance as a singer and how she - made herself and she made herself before she was asked and hired to do all those soundtracks.

No Simon Cowell. No publicity. No agency knocking on Simon's door. Just her and her hardwork to improve her craft.

That is music.