Widescreen telly aspect ratios...

SuperUnleaded · 17-10-2008, 17:35

I wasn't sure whether to post this in one of the Technology sub-forums (although there wasn't any that mentioned TVs!), but I'll just ask a quick quezzie here anyway.

I'm planning on buying a widescreen telly for the first ever time, but I'd like to know what my old 4:3-recorded videos will look like on a naturally 16:9 screen - are they going to be all stretched and 'fat'-looking, or will there be black bars on each side of the screen to compensate? I would really, really hate to watch old videos in 16:9 if they're going to be stretched out.

It's going to be a fairly cheapo model, but will (I think) be a flat one. Hence will there be options to change aspect ratios and whatnot on-screen? I just haven't a clue how these things work, since I've never owned a widescreenie.

A-Friend · 17-10-2008, 17:38

Most decent widescreens will have a 4:3 mode, which will show the correct size/ratio with black bars down the left and right.

Check with whichever model you buy that it has the feature, though, as some don't.

PS - for future notice, TVs are covered under "Home Entertainment" in the other section of the forums.

SuperUnleaded · 17-10-2008, 17:39

Thanks, that's all the info I needed really.

And I'll remember that tip next time.

Perhaps somebody would like to move this topic into that sub-section?

pythag · 17-10-2008, 17:45

Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around.

Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it...

Zincubus · 17-10-2008, 18:25

I have noticed that quite a few homes have incorrectly set up widescreen TV's !
Everybody looks chubby even the superfit footballers !!

Even some TV shops have the ojn the wrog settings - dumbasses !

Aspartame · 17-10-2008, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythag

Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around.

Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it...

Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio.

Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up

Deacon1972 · 17-10-2008, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspartame

Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio.

Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up

It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty.

With the introduction of HD many HD ready/Full HD sets won't allow the user to select aspect ratios over HDMI, you have to rely on the broadcaster getting it right.

It's taken over two years for some of them to see the errors of their ways.

bobcar · 17-10-2008, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty.

Yes some time back Sky were showing some overseas football with a combination of zooming and stretching. This was worse than transmitting in full fattyvision because there was no way to adjust the TV to get it right.

David (2) · 17-10-2008, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspartame

Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio.

Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up

I have a brand new Bravia23, and its switching perfect for me.

My Panasonic combi recorder sometimes records in the wrong picture format, but this not a problem with the tv.

I hope you are using at least a scart cable to link the equipment to the tv....or better still, an HDMI cable.
If you have an external digital box like Sky, Cable, freeview, that equipment must set to 16:9.
I think the Sony's have an Auto option somewhere in the menu - this would need to be turned on.
On my Panasonic freeview recorder which has HDMI upscaling, you can adjust its settings to "force 4:3" so that any 4:3 pictures appear as that, with black bars to to the left and right - no stretchy vision at all.

Dave

Nigel Goodwin · 17-10-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspartame

Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up

I've been complaining about that for years - NEVER trust anything that claims to be 'SMART', it's always the complete opposite.

bentlollipop · 17-10-2008, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty.

With the introduction of HD many HD ready/Full HD sets won't allow the user to select aspect ratios over HDMI, you have to rely on the broadcaster getting it right.

It's taken over two years for some of them to see the errors of their ways.

Sky HD pictures are all 16:9 over HDMI (at 1080i)and you have to manually switch 4:3 pix to the right ratio unless you stop the box from upscaling

Its a shame Sky wont use the same system as the PS3 which can upscale SD and switch between ratios all automatically via HDMI

Deacon1972 · 17-10-2008, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentlollipop

Sky HD pictures are all 16:9 over HDMI (at 1080i)and you have to manually switch 4:3 pix to the right ratio unless you stop the box from upscaling

Its a shame Sky wont use the same system as the PS3 which can upscale SD and switch between ratios all automatically via HDMI

Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame.

Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart .

Zincubus · 17-10-2008, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

Yes some time back Sky were showing some overseas football with a combination of zooming and stretching. This was worse than transmitting in full fattyvision because there was no way to adjust the TV to get it right.

They are still doing this on many Champions League matches !

bobcar · 17-10-2008, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame.

Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart .

Some channels (the sport channels for one) are still stretched in HD, but Sky1 HD isn't - I don't know what they have against sports fans.

To be honest though upscaled Sky sports isn't much better than standard Sky Sports (unlike Eurosport which is excellent upscaled) so I just watch the standard channel if it's in 4:3.

bobcar · 17-10-2008, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zincubus

They are still doing this on many Champions League matches !

It doesn't surprise me but I haven't seen it as I only really watch English teams and they are usually 16:9 anyway.

It really is the worst of all worlds, if they used 4:3 then those that like fattyvision can just stretch it using their TV anyway. (Most of them will have their TVs already set for fattyvision).

spikydog · 18-10-2008, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythag

Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around.

Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it...

My in-laws must be the worst for this. Now they've taken to having subtitles on all the time as well.

Aspartame · 18-10-2008, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

I have a brand new Bravia23, and its switching perfect for me.

Mine too now that I've switched Smart mode off, goes from 4:3 to 16:9 perfectly on most inputs. I'm still staggered that Smart mode can't format the pictures generated by the TV's own Freeview Tuner correctly.

David (2) · 18-10-2008, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aspartame

Mine too now that I've switched Smart mode off, goes from 4:3 to 16:9 perfectly on most inputs. I'm still staggered that Smart mode can't format the pictures generated by the TV's own Freeview Tuner correctly.

My sony copes with the built in Freeview too, well 99% anyway. I think the exception I think is UK History which shows some things in 14:9 format and although the sony has this mode, it doest appear to switch to it when viewing this channel (it stays in 4:3 i think).

Dave

bobcar · 18-10-2008, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

My sony copes with the built in Freeview too, well 99% anyway. I think the exception I think is UK History which shows some things in 14:9 format and although the sony has this mode, it doest appear to switch to it when viewing this channel (it stays in 4:3 i think).

Dave

14:9 is just letterboxed onto 4:3 so unless the TV is intelligent and detects the bars you will have to switch this manually - luckily this mose is becoming less common. Detecting the bars and switching is not great anyway because there is a lot of scope for false switching with temporary bars during a 4:3 programme.

bentlollipop · 18-10-2008, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon1972

Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame.

Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart .

I dont subscribe to the HD mix as the small amount of HD stuff I wanted was on BBC and C4.

Do Sky 1 fully pillarbox 4:3 or do they do what C4 do with The Simpsons and combine pillarbox and zoom so that the side borders are not as large as they should be

bobcar · 18-10-2008, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bentlollipop

I dont subscribe to the HD mix as the small amount of HD stuff I wanted was on BBC and C4.

Do Sky 1 fully pillarbox 4:3 or do they do what C4 do with The Simpsons and combine pillarbox and zoom so that the side borders are not as large as they should be

They show it properly I think (I've only seen it briefly so might be wrong) though to be honest there's little difference between Sky1 and Sky1 HD for SD material - which is surprising when Channel 4 do such a good job of upscaling. I watch 4:3 material on Sky1 because I like to use the grey bars for my plasma.

I didn't know Channel 4 did that with The Simpsons, they're usually quite good at showing 2.35:1 films for instance unlike the Beeb.

17-10-2008, 17:35	#1
SuperUnleaded Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,536	Widescreen telly aspect ratios... I wasn't sure whether to post this in one of the Technology sub-forums (although there wasn't any that mentioned TVs!), but I'll just ask a quick quezzie here anyway. I'm planning on buying a widescreen telly for the first ever time, but I'd like to know what my old 4:3-recorded videos will look like on a naturally 16:9 screen - are they going to be all stretched and 'fat'-looking, or will there be black bars on each side of the screen to compensate? I would really, really hate to watch old videos in 16:9 if they're going to be stretched out. It's going to be a fairly cheapo model, but will (I think) be a flat one. Hence will there be options to change aspect ratios and whatnot on-screen? I just haven't a clue how these things work, since I've never owned a widescreenie.

17-10-2008, 17:38	#2
A-Friend Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,378	Most decent widescreens will have a 4:3 mode, which will show the correct size/ratio with black bars down the left and right. Check with whichever model you buy that it has the feature, though, as some don't. PS - for future notice, TVs are covered under "Home Entertainment" in the other section of the forums.

17-10-2008, 17:39	#3
SuperUnleaded Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,536	Thanks, that's all the info I needed really. And I'll remember that tip next time. Perhaps somebody would like to move this topic into that sub-section?

17-10-2008, 17:45	#4
pythag Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southampton, UK Posts: 203	Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around. Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it...

17-10-2008, 18:25	#5
Zincubus Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,848	I have noticed that quite a few homes have incorrectly set up widescreen TV's ! Everybody looks chubby even the superfit footballers !! Even some TV shops have the ojn the wrog settings - dumbasses !

17-10-2008, 18:34	#6
Aspartame Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greenock, Scotland Posts: 8,973	Quote: Originally Posted by pythag Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around. Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it... Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio. Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up

17-10-2008, 19:03	#7
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by Aspartame Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio. Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty. With the introduction of HD many HD ready/Full HD sets won't allow the user to select aspect ratios over HDMI, you have to rely on the broadcaster getting it right. It's taken over two years for some of them to see the errors of their ways.

17-10-2008, 20:17	#8
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Deacon1972 It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty. Yes some time back Sky were showing some overseas football with a combination of zooming and stretching. This was worse than transmitting in full fattyvision because there was no way to adjust the TV to get it right.

17-10-2008, 20:27	#9
David (2) Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: S.West England. Posts: 18,037	Quote: Originally Posted by Aspartame Yes I'm with you on this, I'll put up with any amount of letter-boxing or pillar-boxing, but I want to see all of the image un the right aspect ratio. Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up I have a brand new Bravia23, and its switching perfect for me. My Panasonic combi recorder sometimes records in the wrong picture format, but this not a problem with the tv. I hope you are using at least a scart cable to link the equipment to the tv....or better still, an HDMI cable. If you have an external digital box like Sky, Cable, freeview, that equipment must set to 16:9. I think the Sony's have an Auto option somewhere in the menu - this would need to be turned on. On my Panasonic freeview recorder which has HDMI upscaling, you can adjust its settings to "force 4:3" so that any 4:3 pictures appear as that, with black bars to to the left and right - no stretchy vision at all. Dave

17-10-2008, 20:32	#10
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Aspartame Some TVs really don't help though. I have a new Sony Bravia with a so-called "Smart" picture mode which displays EVERY format wrongly. Impressively if you give it a 16:9 signal for it's 16:9 screen, Smart still messes it up I've been complaining about that for years - NEVER trust anything that claims to be 'SMART', it's always the complete opposite.

17-10-2008, 20:47	#11
bentlollipop Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 101	Quote: Originally Posted by Deacon1972 It's not only the TV manufacturers that mess things up, some broadcasters are just as guilty. With the introduction of HD many HD ready/Full HD sets won't allow the user to select aspect ratios over HDMI, you have to rely on the broadcaster getting it right. It's taken over two years for some of them to see the errors of their ways. Sky HD pictures are all 16:9 over HDMI (at 1080i)and you have to manually switch 4:3 pix to the right ratio unless you stop the box from upscaling Its a shame Sky wont use the same system as the PS3 which can upscale SD and switch between ratios all automatically via HDMI

17-10-2008, 21:09	#12
Deacon1972 Guest Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by bentlollipop Sky HD pictures are all 16:9 over HDMI (at 1080i)and you have to manually switch 4:3 pix to the right ratio unless you stop the box from upscaling Its a shame Sky wont use the same system as the PS3 which can upscale SD and switch between ratios all automatically via HDMI Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame. Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart .

17-10-2008, 21:14	#13
Zincubus Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,848	Quote: Originally Posted by bobcar Yes some time back Sky were showing some overseas football with a combination of zooming and stretching. This was worse than transmitting in full fattyvision because there was no way to adjust the TV to get it right. They are still doing this on many Champions League matches !

17-10-2008, 21:17	#14
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Deacon1972 Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame. Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart . Some channels (the sport channels for one) are still stretched in HD, but Sky1 HD isn't - I don't know what they have against sports fans. To be honest though upscaled Sky sports isn't much better than standard Sky Sports (unlike Eurosport which is excellent upscaled) so I just watch the standard channel if it's in 4:3.

17-10-2008, 21:22	#15
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Zincubus They are still doing this on many Champions League matches ! It doesn't surprise me but I haven't seen it as I only really watch English teams and they are usually 16:9 anyway. It really is the worst of all worlds, if they used 4:3 then those that like fattyvision can just stretch it using their TV anyway. (Most of them will have their TVs already set for fattyvision).

18-10-2008, 09:18	#16
spikydog Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Location: Location Posts: 1,007	Quote: Originally Posted by pythag Some TVs also have other modes such as 'panoramic' which keep the aspect ratio of the centre 2/3rds of the picture correct but stretch out the edges - these tend to look quite horrible though, especially on any scene where the camera pans around. Watching TV in the incorrect aspect ratio is one of my pet hates - I don't understand how people can do it and both not notice and not care. I was at a friends house recently and they were watching a 4:3 program in 16:9 so everyone looked fat - the worst bit about it is that they really should have known better - they work for NDS!!! I didn't know whether it was polite to point it out or not, so I just left it... My in-laws must be the worst for this. Now they've taken to having subtitles on all the time as well.

18-10-2008, 17:44	#17
Aspartame Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greenock, Scotland Posts: 8,973	Quote: Originally Posted by David (2) I have a brand new Bravia23, and its switching perfect for me. Mine too now that I've switched Smart mode off, goes from 4:3 to 16:9 perfectly on most inputs. I'm still staggered that Smart mode can't format the pictures generated by the TV's own Freeview Tuner correctly.

18-10-2008, 19:15	#18
David (2) Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: S.West England. Posts: 18,037	Quote: Originally Posted by Aspartame Mine too now that I've switched Smart mode off, goes from 4:3 to 16:9 perfectly on most inputs. I'm still staggered that Smart mode can't format the pictures generated by the TV's own Freeview Tuner correctly. My sony copes with the built in Freeview too, well 99% anyway. I think the exception I think is UK History which shows some things in 14:9 format and although the sony has this mode, it doest appear to switch to it when viewing this channel (it stays in 4:3 i think). Dave

18-10-2008, 20:06	#19
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by David (2) My sony copes with the built in Freeview too, well 99% anyway. I think the exception I think is UK History which shows some things in 14:9 format and although the sony has this mode, it doest appear to switch to it when viewing this channel (it stays in 4:3 i think). Dave 14:9 is just letterboxed onto 4:3 so unless the TV is intelligent and detects the bars you will have to switch this manually - luckily this mose is becoming less common. Detecting the bars and switching is not great anyway because there is a lot of scope for false switching with temporary bars during a 4:3 programme.

18-10-2008, 20:33	#20
bentlollipop Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 101	Quote: Originally Posted by Deacon1972 Sky have just adopted the correct way to show 4x3 on Sky 1HD, they now show 4x3 pillar-boxed within the 16x9 frame. Before this they use to show it stretched, on some TV's there way no way to get the correct ratio as the TV wouldn't allow the user to change the aspect ratio over manually when connected via HDMI, even setting the box to auto did nothing either, the only way you could do it was to revert back to scart . I dont subscribe to the HD mix as the small amount of HD stuff I wanted was on BBC and C4. Do Sky 1 fully pillarbox 4:3 or do they do what C4 do with The Simpsons and combine pillarbox and zoom so that the side borders are not as large as they should be

18-10-2008, 21:47	#21
bobcar Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 14,718	Quote: Originally Posted by bentlollipop I dont subscribe to the HD mix as the small amount of HD stuff I wanted was on BBC and C4. Do Sky 1 fully pillarbox 4:3 or do they do what C4 do with The Simpsons and combine pillarbox and zoom so that the side borders are not as large as they should be They show it properly I think (I've only seen it briefly so might be wrong) though to be honest there's little difference between Sky1 and Sky1 HD for SD material - which is surprising when Channel 4 do such a good job of upscaling. I watch 4:3 material on Sky1 because I like to use the grey bars for my plasma. I didn't know Channel 4 did that with The Simpsons, they're usually quite good at showing 2.35:1 films for instance unlike the Beeb.

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