So true!

Aled I think the judges admitted was deliberately undermarked in that semi - a shame, because he deserved to make the final.


Me too - I said to my mum, and I know it sounds horrible, that I would have enjoyed that routine much more if they'd both had paper bags on their heads.

I think Tom's hands are overall so far better than Gethin's at a similar stage, but he definitely had a couple of attacks of the aeroplane hands syndrome on Sat.

My favourite of G's ballrooms was actually the VW - I thought he should have been top, not just joint top, on the leaderboard that night.


So did I, and I still agree that some of the 10s were overmarkings (though some explained if not excused by the fact that the judges were marking so high they had nowhere left to go on a couple of nights). I honestly thought the judges might lose the competition for her through overmarking sometimes.

I do think that in a way some of the dances that got 38/39 (Mark and Karen's AT, Alesha and Matt's final waltz, and so on) are almost remembered more fondly as "should've got 40..." whereas in a way I feel sorry for Matt and his fans (although I do think his waltz was overmarked) that that dance is remembered by so many people as "that overmarked waltz" rather than for its good points.

I think the marking generally on SCD went a bit mad last year, Alesha was good and I for one loved her, but the number of 10s flying about was a bit crazy. But I think it was a more general thing last year, I'd say all of the semifinalists had several undeserved 10s through the last few weeks of competition.

I do think Carol S sometimes wasn't given credit for what she achieved, just marked a little sternly now and then, and also think that La Bunton was heinously overmarked for most of her routines. (Especially in what was, overall, a much lower scoring series)

I'll ask the question again and hope someone has the answer.
To what standard do the judges award their marks? Would it be amateur final dancing competition standard, and I guess it is very difficult to get a 9 in competition let alone a 10.

undermarked: matt and flavia's rumba.

overmarked: most of the dances brendan has ever done (i like brendan a lot, though). the reason for this is simple: brendan can't do what the great pros do (darren, lilia, karen to an extent) and bring himself down to the level of his celeb. he either always out-dances them or makes the choreography so difficult that they can't possibly really pull it off. i think lisa's AS dress this weekend was very sneaky because it hid a lot of flawed footwork. no, darren gough maybe isn't as good as ramps or alesha, but lilia helped to make him look great by making the dances achievable.

getting back to the topic more, it doesn't count as over-marked because there are no marks given, but i think alesha's show dance (especially as she had to dance against a male celeb in the final) was one of the most over-rated dances ever, it actually bored me.

I can't answer your question but imo there was a lot of overmarking in SCD 5. A '10' should be a rare occurrence and the judges seem to get carried away by their emotions.

To this day I wonder why none of the judges picked up on it!?

Like you, I was extremely bemused.

The judges (well, two and half of them) start to high, I think. The range of the abilities at the start of the series would suggest that some couples are at the 1, 2, 3 stage...

if you give them 5, 6, 7 you have nowhere to go with those at the higher end of the scale except 8, 9 and 10.

No-one should be getting near perfect marks at the start of the show, because if they do, it means they have little to learn!

Mark and Karen's AT was the best I have seen, and much better than their show dance, so should have got the 40, I think.

Matt's meltdown was overmarked, as he forgot some of it, and underperformed the rest, and the following week they overmarked him because he remembered the dance and performed it...so those two, plus Emma.

I think Denise Lewis was probably undermarked at some stage.

I think all the men were undermarked in the first week of the last series; the judges were all for the "hot" women and were very harsh on Matt and Gethin in particular. Of course, once Gabby, Penny and Kelly left they had to backtrack rapidly and started to overmark like mad whilst trying to shift Kenny and Kate who seemed to have taken up permanent residency!

Over the three seasons that I have watched so far the ones that spring to mind are:

Overmarking: Emma's Paso, John's Salsa and Matt's Waltz

Undermarking: Alesha's waltz and Mark's Argentine Tango (Craig, what were you thinking?)

Splutters!!

Cold??

Not sure I agree there.

Dare I say Darren Gough's AS in last year's Christmas Special? Shouldn't have got 40.

I thought Matt and Lilia's Quickstep was undermarked.

A lot of their dances were underrated I think. Although they were my favourite couple so I would say that

As for overmarked...well where do I start?

Yeah, I think Gethin really was robbed there

Alesha's samba was badly over-marked last series - even she seemed gobsmacked and admitted it wasn't one of her better performances.

Christmas Specials are all overmarked.

Overmarked
Gethin and Camilla's Paso, Jive and AS
Emma and Darren's Cha Cha
Kelly and Brendan's AS

I think that's one of the reasons Alesha won (apart from being fabulous) when she was overmarked she admitted it.

Forgive me - but that is complete nonsense - every expert was ecstatic about John's salsa - the judges applauded and it was Karen's choice as the dance of the 2007 series.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising - but John danced an authentic Cuban salsa - something beyond the capabilities of most SCD contestants.

No denying that in other dances his posture was suspect - hunched shoulders came from years of footie, shielding the ball from opponents - but in that salsa, Nicole (queen of the spins) and John showed how it should be done.

I'd agree with that

I agree - there became a real assumption of 10s last year, a 'when are you going to get your 10s?' feeling, and it spoils it. (I remember my sense of complete shock that Jill could get 4 10s in the series 2 final, it was a statement of how excellent she was - not the 'you didn't fall over' feeling it has now.) And I'm worried it will be the same this year - that's why I get fed up with the 'poxy 8' comment and anyone being 'disappointed' on their third dance that they're getting 7s and 8s.

I can remember dances last year where I was a mad fan of the person dancing, and I'd like the dance, and even then I was sitting there looking at the score thinking 'Come on, it wasn't that good.' Which stops you enjoying it as much. I completely agree with your comment about Matt's waltz being spoiled by being overmarked. Same with his 8s for his melt-down dance - he didn't need them, he would have been saved by the public if he'd had 2s. The judges overmark to make themselves more popular, not for the sake of the contestants.

Absolutely! What is special about 10 when they're falling like dandruff?


Yup!

By comparison, as you say, there was the feeling of awe and disbelief as Jill's 4 10s came up, and as another example, the utter euphoria from Karen when she and Mark scored 39 for their AT.

When people can get 38s and 39s weeks before the final for routines that even Joe Public can see weren't perfect it just suggests the judges aren't doing their job properly.

I think the inflation is probably to be expected to a certain extent - as you say, the judges don't like being unpopular for a start. And yes, having more weeks in the series has (in some cases!) improved the standard, but if that's the case the judges need to start lower so as to give themselves somewhere to go. At this rate, with the extra-long series, we'll be getting 40/40s by mid November

I forget what Jill got for her first jive, but I think it was more-or-less 7s (Maybe an 8 or two? Maybe a 6?). And yet already this series we have loads of 30s to 35s, even though there have been few truly memorable dances!

I've got all the videos on my hard drive playing randomly at the moment and Jill's Paso just came on, I still find it hard to believe that it only got one ten (good for you Arlene!) and got only one mark more than Alesha's when she forgot the end. It's should have received straight 10's.

Maybe not, the past two series we'd already had a 10 (Louisa's jive and Kelly's AS) we've had none so far this year.

According to Wikipedia, Jill and Darren first did the jive in week 3 and scored 35 points ... so sums being a bit of a sticky point for me what's that 3x9 and an 8? (wonder whose the 8 was )

Not wishing to seem patronising myself, but isn't that the point of this thread? That all the experts gave a dance a big score but we viewers thought differently?
As another poster has already pointed out, Len himself later said that he only gave John this "perfect" score because he'd painted himself into a corner by giving someone else a nine earlier and liked John's dance better. This is one of the problems with the habitual overmarking that generally emanates from the Goodman/Tonioli end of the judges' table. Len runs out of paddles, so John is deemed perfect. It was good, IMO, but not perfect.

admittedly after 6 series the brain could be going but I seem to think in series 1 and 2, getting an "8" was considered excellent

Jill got two 9's (cha-cha and paso) out of Craig and one 10.