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Old 24-10-2008, 12:48
Somner
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I've just been going through my two dog's files and noticed both of their boosters are overdue! Oops.

One is overdue by 6 months and the other by 1 month. I've tried searching Google but only get results from various different Vet's websites. I've seen one say up to 3 months overdue is OK, one say up to 6 months and one say up to 15 months! Now I know that it will depend entirely on my Vets discretion, but can anybody give me an indication?
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Old 24-10-2008, 12:52
Porcupine
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the dog that is 1 month overdue will be fine.

im not so sure on the 6 months. i think you will have to ask the vet, and get them booked in asap.
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Old 24-10-2008, 13:02
PIDGAS
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I think the vet will tell you for the 6 month overdue one that you will need a whole course to protect your dog. I don't know if that's true though. I always let my pets' boosters run over by at least a month because I'm not convinced they need them every year. The longest I have let them run over is three months mainly because I don't want to end up paying for a course of immunisation from scratch.

I only get them done on time if it coincides with a trip to the cattery.

By the way, do you know there is a new Pet forum on here?
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Old 24-10-2008, 13:05
Somner
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the dog that is 1 month overdue will be fine.

im not so sure on the 6 months. i think you will have to ask the vet, and get them booked in asap.
Cheers. I'm taking the 1 month overdue dog in to the vet together to get him some sedative for Bonfire night. I'll ask about it and the vet may do it there and then, I'll also ask about the other dog.

Update: Just rang 6 month overdue dog's vet (different vets) and they said a new course will have to be started. Let's wait and see what the other vet says when we speak to them today.
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Old 24-10-2008, 13:09
Somner
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I think the vet will tell you for the 6 month overdue one that you will need a whole course to protect your dog. I don't know if that's true though. I always let my pets' boosters run over by at least a month because I'm not convinced they need them every year. The longest I have let them run over is three months mainly because I don't want to end up paying for a course of immunisation from scratch.

I only get them done on time if it coincides with a trip to the cattery.

By the way, do you know there is a new Pet forum on here?
I see your point. If they can boost them as much as 3 months overdue, then obviously they don't need to be done yearly! The main thing I'm worried about is that our Pet Insurance only covers them should they be fully boosted. Also, we have to get a bloody annual dental examination done. Wonder how much that will cost.

I met sell them for meat instead.

P.S. I forgot about the Pet forum. Maybe a mod could move it across?
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Old 24-10-2008, 13:48
PIDGAS
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I met sell them for meat instead.
Huh! I don't believe that for a second!

Yea that's another scam by insurance companies and they do check that their boosters are up to date if you've claimed and thankfully when I claimed for my cat, his boosters were up to date!

Actually, when he was ill, the vet advised me not to get his booster done until he was better and that was three months after it was due!
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Old 24-10-2008, 13:52
merlinsmum
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The majority of people I meet when out on walks never bother with the boosters after the dogs have their initial series of jabs when young. They also never bother with insurance. In fact they think we are mad for doing it all but maybe it's a generation thing as they are nearly all around the 70 year old mark. Even a few of the people working for the local dog rescue place don't do it.

Get on to the vet, you should be okay as long as it's done within the year. The date seems to move anyway, one dog we had for 17 years started off being done in Feb, as each year passed the vet would make the appointment after sending us a reminder card and us phoning. Since they send them out when due, it ended up being done a week or so later than the last time. which over time turned into months from the original Feb.
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Old 24-10-2008, 14:38
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Huh! I don't believe that for a second!

Yea that's another scam by insurance companies and they do check that their boosters are up to date if you've claimed and thankfully when I claimed for my cat, his boosters were up to date!

Actually, when he was ill, the vet advised me not to get his booster done until he was better and that was three months after it was due!
the booster would have put added strain on his immune system, something he didn't need at the time

as for boosters, they are a good idea.
some people dont have theirs boosted after their initial vaccinations bacause it can make some dogs very ill
the majority are fine though, and it's better to be safe.

i mean, i'd rather pay the 30 a year for the jab than watch my dogs get ill & have "that" choice to make

i've heard the cut off for boosters/having to have a new course from scratch is about 9 months
the once a year just keeps your animal well protected & the antibodies topped up
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Old 24-10-2008, 15:49
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My vet will do 6 months 'late'

As long as the dog had it's puppy course and first year booster, there is good evidence to suggest that for parvo and distemper a 'three year protocol' could be followed - ie, only boosting once every three years as they should have sufficient immunity.

However, the lepto part of the jab can last as little as six months, and like the flu virus can mutate requiring a new vaccine some years.

An alternative is 'titre testing' where the dog's immunity is tested yearly and only boosting if immunity has dipped sufficiently to require it.

Bare in mind, some insurance policies have a clause that may mean that technically they can get out of paying any claim - not just claims associated with the vaccinated diseases - if the dog isn't vaccinated annually.
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Old 24-10-2008, 16:18
Somner
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Just took the 1 month overdue dog to the vets and had his booster done. I asked about the other dog and they said they won't do past 2 months overdue. He's not registered with them anyway and his actual vet is too far away since we moved house. I know of a good charity/not for profit vet in the next town so I'll be asking those.
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Old 15-06-2009, 13:36
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I've just dug up this topic because my vet sent me a reminder for two of my dogs to have a booster each and although I had them done as young pups, I've decided against having boosters!

Having taken my long-haired dog to be clipped a couple of days ago, I was talking to the groomer, who has also got really nice kennels, and she has done a lot of research into whether or not all these 'booster' injections are of any value to our pets and has come to the conclusion after reading heaps of stuff and contacting a lot of people, that all these injections are a contributing factor to the huge amount of Cancers in our domestic pets nowadays.

My vets charge about 60 each for these boosters and now they want to give 'double doses' (probably more than 60) so that they can do them two-yearly instead of annually and also they would be protecting them from fleas, worms, kennel cough and other stuff so goodness knows what else is in these injections nowadays!

The groomer thinks the injections are so worthless that she doesn't insist (like some kennel owners do) that dogs need to have them before being boarded and she said the phials of stuff the vets use can be bought from somewhere in Ireland for about 2 and I remember some time ago my sister telling me that a good friend of hers who is a vet, told her that with these injections, anything over 3 is profit for vets!!

I don't know what other dog owners do, but a couple of elderly ladies I know are frightened not to have their dogs done because of 'scare stories' from the vet.... What do others think about this subject?
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Old 15-06-2009, 14:38
StressMonkey
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I've just dug up this topic because my vet sent me a reminder for two of my dogs to have a booster each and although I had them done as young pups, I've decided against having boosters!

Having taken my long-haired dog to be clipped a couple of days ago, I was talking to the groomer, who has also got really nice kennels, and she has done a lot of research into whether or not all these 'booster' injections are of any value to our pets and has come to the conclusion after reading heaps of stuff and contacting a lot of people, that all these injections are a contributing factor to the huge amount of Cancers in our domestic pets nowadays.

My vets charge about 60 each for these boosters and now they want to give 'double doses' (probably more than 60) so that they can do them two-yearly instead of annually and also they would be protecting them from fleas, worms, kennel cough and other stuff so goodness knows what else is in these injections nowadays!

The groomer thinks the injections are so worthless that she doesn't insist (like some kennel owners do) that dogs need to have them before being boarded and she said the phials of stuff the vets use can be bought from somewhere in Ireland for about 2 and I remember some time ago my sister telling me that a good friend of hers who is a vet, told her that with these injections, anything over 3 is profit for vets!!

I don't know what other dog owners do, but a couple of elderly ladies I know are frightened not to have their dogs done because of 'scare stories' from the vet.... What do others think about this subject?
And do you take medical advice from your hairdresser?

Sorry - that just made me laugh

If I wasn't at work and if my home computer hadn't died, I'd dig up as much of the reference material I found when looking into the subject myself.

There is no evidence that jabs cause cancer.
There is evidence that for distemper and Parvo, on average dogs probably only need a booster every three years after the initial course and first booster.
There is evidence that the Lepto componant can give as little as 6 months cover.

Jabs are a money maker for vets - but while the vaccines themselves might be cheap, remember the vet has many other overheads.
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Old 15-06-2009, 14:54
Porcupine
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The groomer thinks the injections are so worthless that she doesn't insist (like some kennel owners do) that dogs need to have them before being boarded
You are completely mad. You own a dog, so it is in your job description to look after your dog. That means giving it the annual booster jab.

So - your groomer will let any dog board at her kennels, regardless of boosters ? Well, i pity the poor dogs in her care, as no doubt some will pick up something deadly.

My parents in law had a kennels way back when before boosters were the norm. They had parvovirus sweep through the kennels, and the majority of the dogs died. They had to get rid of the kennels and loose their livelyhood, plus a lot of good owners lost their beloved pets.

Thank god GOOD kennels will only take vaccinated dogs.
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Old 15-06-2009, 15:02
woodbush
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I've heard that boosters are not required.

Even so I still get mine done, 25 well spent in my opinion.

Vaccinations may be controversial, but the diseases they prevent are still around and still kill. If you do not know if your pet has been vaccinated, it does not hurt to repeat the course. Depending on circumstances, some components of the booster vaccines may not be needed every year. Your vet can advise. Taking a blood test to measure protective antibodies may be helpful.
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Old 15-06-2009, 15:53
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I've heard that boosters are not required.

Even so I still get mine done, 25 well spent in my opinion.
You have a more reasonable vet than the ones near me.... because ours charge 60! It's about 32 for a consultation here!

There is no evidence that jabs cause cancer.
I did not say they CAUSE Cancer I said CONTRIBUTE to the much more common Cancer seen in dogs today -- according to the thorough research I was told about in my earlier post on here!

Before I was married and had my own dogs, I lived at home where we had always had several dogs as we had a lot of land for them and my mother was at home to care for them and not one of our dogs ever had Cancer... they mostly died of 'old age' or things like rheumatism or failed kidneys, whereas three of my 'innoculated every year' dogs have died of horrible cancerous growths so this time I have decided to not have my two newest sister dogs (a year-old) done every year and will see what happens.

Of course if there is something that worries me about them I shall take them to the surgery but not for injections every year!

You are completely mad. You own a dog, so it is in your job description to look after your dog. That means giving it the annual booster jab.
Excuse me, but I am not mad and I look after my dogs perfectly well and always take them to the vet if I think it's necessary! In fact as well as buying dogs of my choosing, my family have also rescued a lot of older dogs and the vets have been hansomely paid from all of our animals with operations like spaying, teeth scaling/removal and suchlike!

The groomer/kennel owner has never had any problems whatsoever and isn't like some kennels who take loads of dogs - she takes mostly the ones she also grooms so knows the owners well and she cares for dogs as though they are her own!

In any case, doctors don't tell us to have measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and hepatitis injections every year of our life because they last a lifetime... so why should dogs need to have them every year? By giving injections every year to animals, it possibly helps to destroy their immune system just like it would to children if they were given measles etc jabs every year of their life!
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Old 15-06-2009, 16:24
welwynrose
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once your dog gets to a certain age don't they recommend you stop the annual boosters - I'm sure I read that somewhere
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Old 15-06-2009, 17:28
StressMonkey
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I did not say they CAUSE Cancer I said CONTRIBUTE to the much more common Cancer seen in dogs today -- according to the thorough research I was told about in my earlier post on here!
OK then, there is no evidence that vaccinations contribute to cancer in dogs.


Before I was married and had my own dogs, I lived at home where we had always had several dogs as we had a lot of land for them and my mother was at home to care for them and not one of our dogs ever had Cancer... they mostly died of 'old age' or things like rheumatism or failed kidneys, whereas three of my 'innoculated every year' dogs have died of horrible cancerous growths so this time I have decided to not have my two newest sister dogs (a year-old) done every year and will see what happens.
That is a very small sample size and doesn't really show a link. Other factors may contributing - for a start it is a different environment (Your home v your parents' home), different food, different flea treatments, different breeds, castration....an almost infinite list of variables!! Different cancers have diferent contributing factors - bone cancer is statistically slightly more likely in dogs that are castrated young. Mammery tumours in bitches that aren't spayed/spayed late. Prostate and testicular cancer in uncastrated dogs. Rotts are more prone to bone cancers.

And it could just be co-incidence. Plus, as dogs live longer with the treatments for rheumatism and kidney disease cancer would become a more prevelent disease.

To think vaccination is the cause/contributing factor is a bit simplistic.



In any case, doctors don't tell us to have measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and hepatitis injections every year of our life because they last a lifetime... so why should dogs need to have them every year? By giving injections every year to animals, it possibly helps to destroy their immune system just like it would to children if they were given measles etc jabs every year of their life!
Different vaccines give different levels of cover. Different disease require different vaccine protocols.

MMR in humans needs to be repeated. Tetanus is every 5 years IIRC. Hep B needs a booster. Flu jab every year.

With the increase in titre testing in dogs, it has been discovered that for Distemper and Parvo, after the initial 'puppy' jabs AND the first annual booster, the majority of dogs have sufficient immunity for three years before the level of immunity dips enough to need another booster.

However, every so often the Parvo virus mutates enough to require a new vaccine to be developed. The three year protocol should still cover this. Not vaccinating at all after puppy shots won't.

Additionally, titre testing has shown that the Lepto vaccine only gives protection between six and eighteen months.

I don't know the stats on Kennel Cough, but in a healthy dog it isn't normally serious if treated promptly. It isn't a routine vax anyway.

I've borrowed a laptop so I should (with some effort) be able to find some of the research to back up the above if you are interested?
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Old 15-06-2009, 18:19
Tass
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One reason a lot of people get away with not vaccinating their dogs, cats, children etc, is because many other people do, therefore there is what is know as "herd immunity" whereby if ~70% of the local population is vaccinated there is less disease about to be spread and the vaccinated individuals help act as a firebreak to reduce infection spread or infection outbreaks from new individuals coming into an area so fatal diseases may kill individual(s) but don't spread widely into the general population.
When the vaccinated rates drops below ~70% an infection that does get into the population can then spread easily and quickly from one unprotected individual to another, and from one area to another, in an exponential (pyramid) fashion with devastating results.
I'll keep regularly vaccinating my animals thank you, and so helping all those pets that aren't lucky enough to have their own protection
The only cancers that vaccines can, very rarely, cause are those connected with vaccine site reactions and this is due to the use of adjuvants in killed vaccines. This vaccine site cancer response is infinitely rarer than the diseases the vaccines protect against.
Live attenuated vaccines can be given, without adjuvants, at a lower antigen dose than killed vaccines because live vaccines replicate themselves in the vaccinated subject and so they self-boost dosage/exposure and thus antibody response, although self-replication carries a greater risk of reversion to virulence and they should not be used in vulnerable immuno-compromised or pregnant individuals.
Killed vaccines, which are safer in terms of not reverting to virulence as they are not capable of self-replication, require dosing at a higher antigen level, together with an adjuvant (which is virtually an irritant) to potentiate the immune response by activating antigen-presenting cells, to gain an equivalent level of protection compared to live attenuated vaccines.
However there can be a risk of vaccine failure if the inactivation process strips them of their immunogenicity and the higher antigen levels together with the adjuvant component can cause increased risk of allergic reaction; thus as usual a risk:benefit payoff exists.
Aside from breed differences with cancer tendencies there can also be differences as to different breed lines being more prone to certain medical conditions, including cancers, in the same way as some human cancers can have an inherited component in human families

Last edited by Tass : 15-06-2009 at 18:35. Reason: additinal information added
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Old 15-06-2009, 18:28
SylviaB
 
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OK then, there is no evidence that vaccinations contribute to cancer in dogs.

That is a very small sample size and doesn't really show a link. Other factors may contributing - for a start it is a different environment (Your home v your parents' home), different food, different flea treatments, different breeds, castration....an almost infinite list of variables!! Different
To think vaccination is the cause/contributing factor is a bit simplistic.
I haven't read all of the above but will later, but re the bit I have highlighted -- my parents and I have had almost all Basset Hounds plus two Springers and a Cocker -- both homes are in the country and I don't walk where loads of other dogs go as we have quiet country lanes in several directions, so encounter very few dogs most of the time, whereas most people who live near me seem to walk their dogs along the beach but I don't very often!

Perhaps some of the dried foods could contribute to some of today's problems like allergies etc, which seem to be quite prevalent in some dogs, as it maybe has 'hidden additives/chemicals' so most probably the BARF diet has a lot going for it.

I wonder what Wilhemina feels about innoculations/boosters after a dog reaches one year-old, as I always enjoy reading her dog messages. Obviously this is a controversial subject, we all have differing views (better than all agreeing all the time) and if you Google the subject of whether or not to innoculate after a year-old, you'll find loads of articles and research, especially in America, where they often seem to be ahead of us when it comes to drugs/medical stuff for pets or people!
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Old 15-06-2009, 18:52
woodbush
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I've had dogs all my life and non have died of cancer.

In fact I have friends with dogs and non of them have died with cancer.
Not very scientific I know.

I have always have my dogs injected.

I would have them injected rather than lose them through a preventable disease.
Our local kennel won't take them without the certificates.
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Old 15-06-2009, 19:02
Tass
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I've had dogs all my life and non have died of cancer.

In fact I have friends with dogs and non of them have died with cancer.
Not very scientific I know.

I have always have my dogs injected.

I would have them injected rather than lose them through a preventable disease.
Our local kennel won't take them without the certificates.
Oh yes forgot to mention that in my post. Likewise all my family and friends regularly vaccinate their dogs and none have ever died of cancer , although one cat of mine had a localised injection site reaction once but that wasn't a vaccine injection, it was a particular antibiotic which we didn't use with her again and no more problems.

I wouldn' t put my dogs in kennels that didn't insist on vaccines as they would be exposing my dogs to increased risk.
Vaccines are not 100% effective in all individuals and sometimes vaccines don't totally prevent disease but can cause a more moderate reaction, as with some human flu jabs. Healthy looking individuals can be incubating disease without yet showing symptoms so if the accceptance criteria was a healthy looking animal that wouldn't ensure it wasn't already incubating something.
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Old 15-06-2009, 19:04
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One reason a lot of people get away with not vaccinating their dogs, cats, children etc, is because many other people do, therefore there is what is know as "herd immunity"
I am assuming that we almost all have our dogs vaccinated twice as puppies, and if like some research has shown it protects them for almost all of their life, then we are all protecting one another.

The dogs of ours who died due to cancer were innoculated and boosted, including two that were rescues and one I had from a puppy. As we have normally had three dogs at a time, some rescued or ex breeding bitches of an older age, I suppose the chances of getting something like cancer are higher through having several together rather than people who have just a single dog.

My two pups were both innoculated as young puppies and all of my previous dogs have been innoculated and boosted annually, but for my current youngsters I have now decided not to go for the boosters as per my 'invitation' card sent out by my vet and I know of several others who don't have their dogs boosted unless a kennel requests it. Personally I don't put mine in kennels if I go away because a dog-sitting friend or my mother-in-law stays in my house to care for them, which I think is much nicer, or we may occasionally take them if permitted, not that we go on holidays very often but there are quite a few dog-friendly hotels in this country now.
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Old 15-06-2009, 19:11
Tass
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I am assuming that we almost all have our dogs vaccinated twice as puppies, and if like some research has shown it protects them for almost all of their life, then we are all protecting one another.

My two pups were both innoculated as young puppies and all of my previous dogs have been innoculated and boosted annually, but for my current youngsters I have now decided not to go for the boosters as per my 'invitation' card sent out by my vet and I know of several others who don't have their dogs boosted unless a kennel requests it.

Personally I don't put mine in kennels if I go away because a dog-sitting friend or my mother-in-law stays in my house to care for them, which I think is much nicer, or we may occasionally take them if permitted, not that we go on holidays very often but there are quite a few dog-friendly hotels in this country now.

This depends on the individual response and there will be some that are not protected for all their life.
There is also research to show that some puppies are actually vaccinated too early if done at 8 and 10 weeks (due to maternal antibodies knocking out the vaccine) and some of these need a third shot at 16 weeks. This can apply particularly but not exclusively to Rotts.
Short of regular titre tests in place of vaccines it is impossible to know those that do have life-long protection from those that don't.
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Old 15-06-2009, 20:14
StressMonkey
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Sylvia - seriously, at least have the first booster.

After that you are still playing the odds but they are better odds.

I don't know what research you are refering to with the 'life long' immunity from puppy jabs, but as Tass says, even the puppy jabs may not confer immunity in all pups.

Most of the research I have seen - indeed all the 'good' research - points towards a three year protocol with annual boosters for Lepto and three yearly for Parvo and Distemper. Some individuals still had immunity to Parvo and Distemper after eight years, some had low (but sufficient) after one year.

As UK vets are slow to move to a three year protocol, then annual jabs or titre testing are the next best protocols to follow.

At the very least, give your pups a fighting chance and give them the first year booster. I know 120 is a lot of money, but that is the commitment you make when taking on pups.

Not everything your groomer has read on the internet is true or well researched, and many people have agendas and cherry pick studies to back up what they already believe and puplish on the web as 'fact' when it is nothing of the sort.
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Old 15-06-2009, 20:22
Tass
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.......

Not everything your groomer has read on the internet is true or well researched, and many people have agendas and cherry pick studies to back up what they already believe and puplish on the web as 'fact' when it is nothing of the sort.
Very true. some people don't differentiate opinion from fact and once it's out there other peole then based their own opinions are some very flawed "facts".
I have frequently seen stuff quoted or referred to which, if you go back and actually look at the full original version has either been misquoted, quoted out of context, or is of highly questionable origin/authenticity in the first place.
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