Can't even compete with you,

I too like the Don & Lilia pairing. But I think that all comes to taste or the way you view this show. I have favourites, whom I view in different ways. John & Kristina are one of my favourites, even one can dance and the other can't. It's their pairing and the chemistry, and the entertainment that I get out of it, that makes me like them. And John's old too. But then you have people who can't dance who just don't give me that "lol" and more "mad" moments, like Gary and Karen.

But is the bias about race or gender or personality?

Apart from Don, which other non-white dancers have left disproportionaly early? As a ratio, how does that compare to white dancers leaving disproportionaly early?

(I have a shocking memory, so stand to be corrected if wrong)

Total and utter shite Sensationalism at its worst.

They could easily have spun it as Middle England doesn't like women as Heather was in the bottom two despite having scored better than three MEN.

I don't blame Heather for refusing to comment, it's the people who buy that rag and accept what's written in it as fact and news that I feel sorry for.

No bias has been established.

We don't even know how many 'black' people are voting compared to 'white'. Furthermore we don't know how biased the 'black' voters are compared with the 'white' voters.

There's no way of measuring whether or not anyone goes disproportionately early because there's no way of quantifying objectively when they ought or deserve to go in a mixed personality / talent contest.

Any assessment carried out 'regardless of personality' is totally invalid in the context of a show where the results are partly decided by a public televote. That important factor plus existing 'fanbase', physical attractiveness, the reaction of the judges, a number of common prejudices (including racial) and a whole host of other issues all have to be given due regard.

Here's a list of the people first out of each series and their stats:

Series 1 - Jason Wood (white, male, under 34)
Series 2 - Quentin Willson (white, male, under 55)
Series 3 - Siobhan Hayes (white, female, under 34)
Series 4 - Nicholas Owen (white, male, over 55)
Series 5 - Brian Capron (white, male, over 55)
Series 6 - Phil Daniels (white, male, under 55)

So out of the series so far, all first leavers have been white, 5 have been male and the actual age brackets have been equal.

Well if i was a NOTW reporter i would get from that that there is a gender bias....

We're not talking about 'First' out though, who have all on the whole been the poorest dancers of the crop.

That rag NOTW and those working for it will stoop to any lengths to sell their rubbish. How many lives have they ruined and destroyed down the years with their dirt.

they got the story of these boards though - the stupid thread earlier in the week going on about racial bias - all of it is a lot of b******s

That entered my mind...

Agreed it is a lot of dangly bits, but i only brought attention to it because it is completely ridiculous and unfounded. IMO there is no, nor has there ever been any racial bias in strictly. But i suppose it will alll start again when Heather is in the dance off and gets voted out

The SCD classics were Spooney and Ray but as you imply there were white cases too like Gabby. Its probably statistically significant given they don't have that many black celebs but it would be difficult to rule out personality as thats very subjective - as are the anti-judge vote and other factors. It looks wrong though that so many black celebs even in this series have turned up lower (often bottom) in the public vote than they have in the judges listing and its looks more significant when it happens to people like Spooney who must have an attractive personality to hold down their jobs outside.

Nonetheless it raises a significant point.

I think it's safe to assume that IF every single first eliminee had been 'black', the fact would have been mentioned in this fine piece of red-top 'journalism'. Indeed I expect it would have been hyped as 'evidence'.

Of course this is exactly how this kind of worthless, trashy sensationalism works. Unfortunately some gullible people fall for it.

Colin - runner up
Denise - runner up
Alesha - winner


that is all I will say on the matter

Thanks. I'd forgotten about Spoony. Personality - I liked him. A lot. Found him very warm and earnest. He wasn't the best dancer but he wasn't bad. Can anyone remember which 'less able' dancers stayed in at his expence? But racism?

Ray, Mmmm. Didn't warm to. Perhaps others did? And on the night he went out (IIRC with my shocking memory), while not the worst, he wasn't really very good. But there I'd say personality as much as dance ability played a part.

So, IMO, Spoony was a bad decision on the part of the GBP as opposed to how many bad decisions with white dancers?

But it doesn't matter how many factors you or anyone else keep stripping out of the equation, I can keep coming up with more that are potentially at least equally important.

It would be wholly unconvincing to suggest that if we accept Spoony was a good dancer (certainly) and had an attractive personality (I think so but clearly that's very subjective), that somehow this leaves us with racism as a likely important factor in his elimination. We simply don't have enough information to make that leap.

He was mid-table. He was arguably not particularly widely known before the show. He didn't seem to be considered especially good-looking. I don't recall him having a particularly strong storyline. He wasn't being roasted by the judges. He didn't have any major injuries or a sob story that I can remember. He was partnered with a rookie pro. He was bald.....I could go on all night.

Racism is a reality and a possible significant factor here...but we have nowhere near enough data to make even an educated guess at quantifying it.

I quite agree Endemoniada. The emphasis is on the word "possible". It may well be that there is nothing there and it is all utter tosh as someone said. However Don and Heather in the bottom two when they'd danced quite respectably, seemed a little odd to me, and it seemed a bit surprising when Spooney went out early as well. Yes Alesha and Mark Ramprakash won, but both were very light coloured and both very attractive which made them appealing to voters I'm sure. Both were seen as "sexy", and of course, like Denise and Colin they were just too good to ignore. If Don had been as good as Austin then of course he wouldn't have gone. I think this is about celebs who are in the middle ground leaving before their dancing warrants it.

As to the News of the World making this up, well the Strictly boards have been full of this for several days, and when I bought my copy of The Stage on Wednesday this week, the possibility of an inherent racism in the voting for reality tv shows was the topic of the Editorial and it wasn't limited to SCD. So. NOTW aren't the only ones talking about it. Not saying that it's there, just asking, is it something we should be aware of.

I don't care if it's being discussed in Parliament. Snide, gutless, generalised insinuations about a conveniently amorphous group of millions of 'Middle Englanders' should not be casually tossed around in this manner with such a feeble lack of 'evidence'. It doesn't matter who is doing it or what the agenda is...even a piss-take paper like NOTW.

You have to ask yourself why, after the thick end of a decade of televoting in RTV and endless tedious debate, we're still being offered only the flimsiest anecdotal 'evidence'. You have to ask yourself why this 'evidence' is continually presented in such a juvenile, logic-defying way. It's embarrassing.

We're absolutely no closer to the truth in this matter than when we started...but real racism has been utterly trivialised in the process. Perhaps a few more people need start thinking about and discussing that.

Exactly the same thread, by the same person, was stated on the Beeb site, fairly obviously the NOTW hunting for 'quotes' for this story.

If the public were asked to vote to eliminate somebody and non-white contestants were eliminated earlier than they should have been based on dancing ability then we could justifiably accuse voters of having a race bias. However we are asked to save our favourites and it's hard to accuse viewers of racism just because their favourite happens to be white. I speak as someone who has in previous series voted for Alesha, Ramps, Colin and Denise Lewis.

I can't even find the thread now - maybe the mods removed it. Just shows that trolls could well be journalists looking for a story!

[quote=Endemoniada;28341917]But it doesn't matter how many factors you or anyone else keep stripping out of the equation, I can keep coming up with more that are potentially at least equally important.

It would be wholly unconvincing to suggest that if we accept Spoony was a good dancer (certainly) and had an attractive personality (I think so but clearly that's very subjective), that somehow this leaves us with racism as a likely important factor in his elimination. We simply don't have enough information to make that leap.

He was mid-table. He was arguably not particularly widely known before the show. He didn't seem to be considered especially good-looking. I don't recall him having a particularly strong storyline. He wasn't being roasted by the judges. He didn't have any major injuries or a sob story that I can remember. He was partnered with a rookie pro. He was bald.....I could go on all night.

Racism is a reality and a possible significant factor here...but we have nowhere near enough data to make even an educated guess at quantifying it.[quote]

Perhaps if the NOTW hadn't sensationalised it so much, and had taken a better stab at trying to explain it, then it wouldn't have come over as so much tosh.

As I have said before about BB, we tend to emapthise with people who are like us. There has to be something we can connect with. Whether with Ramps and Alesha people felt more connected, or whether they are the 'acceptable' black faces, who knows.

You cannot measure the reasons people vote, or do not vote. I always thought Don and Heather would have problems with voters, because they are not 'popular' enough today. I would have loved Don to stay, I am old enough to remember him from the 70s, unfortunately most people who watch SCD are not. I had that connection with him. Same with Phil Daniels, I sat down the first night willing him to do well, he is a favourite from Quadrophenia! Heather is partnered with a new pro, her career too peaked too long ago for most people to remember, and it is not like she has been in the showbiz news a lot since then. Very talented, lovely lady, but I am sure most voters just do not have a connection with her.

People like Cherie, Rachel, Christine, Lisa, Austin, Tom, I just do not have a connection with. They do not feature in my points of cultural reference. So that leaves John! Who features in my points of cultural reference, and I find 'entertaining', I can even accept he is not the best dancer. And Kristina has completely won me over.

Last year I knew nothing about Alesha before the show, but she won me over, massive personality, loads of fun, and a wonderful dancer.

I guess what I am saying is that unless a celebrity features in your life, they have to have something that wins you over as a fan. Something you can connect with. That does not preclude race being an issue, but it does not neccessarily mean it is racist.

NOTW runs another non story

the BBC are worried?

please. I don't give a toss about colour, it is the person/dancing that matters. I don't understand why Mark or Andrew are there still, I thought the wrong 2 were in the bottom last week, but I wouldn't have the gall to blame it on colour!

And as for the BBC changing the rules to prevent this - that is just as bad! Because that is positive discrimination, and makes me think now that the Judges are told to save the dancer with colour!

For me it is 50/50 dance and personality. IMO Cherie has no personality and scores low. Am I being agist? No, I just don't like the woman.

There is a section of the British population that is racist and this may have a small impact on voting. Such people are more likely to be found reading TNOW than on DS Forum. Erin danced with Martyn Ofiah in SCD1 and did relatively well. She always does the best she can with the material she's given. The celebs that go out are those who do not seize the public imagination or form a partnership with their professional dancer.