Then how did Alesha manage to triumph last year?

I think Alesha was unique. She seemed to be genuine and her enthusiasm was infectious. There rarely (if ever) seemed to be any evidence of possible game-playing. Contrast this with Kelly who seemed to be giggling and simpering at every opportunity. This may well have been her natural personality but it annoyed a lot of people - me included (hence the word "simpering").

I'm perfectly prepared to believe that my view of Kelly may well be tainted. What I saw as posturing may have been natural and innocent. I don't believe I am motivated by jealousy but I will admit that I don't really like obvious "girly" behaviour and I don't think many other women do either. I think that's why Christine has had such a hard time in certain weeks. (She doesn't irritate me I have to say.) I'll also concede that I have occasionally employed the girly tactics myself. It's probably why I find them so cringe-making and irritating when (in my opinion) they are employed by others.

I agree with you Sid. I like Rachel. Furthermore, I think all of the women I work with are of the same mind. Maybe there are some women/men who dislike other women/men because they are too pretty/wealthy/talented/young/old but I don't come across them in my day to day life and because of that I don't like to read sweeping generalisations about how women/men behave.

Psychologically speaking (*ahem*) that's a reflection of self-loathing. It's true, if you find affecting a 'girly' persona is disgusting (and I agree if it's affected and not 'natural' it is off-putting to say the least), then of course you'll hate people doing the same as you did, thinking they are fake (as you were once in a while).

Being a straight man myself, I am not sure how many of those 'girly' behaviours are affected, but if I see someone smiling 24/7, I often suspect something is wrong with that person. My guard will always be up.

Just the other day I was in the airport one unusually beautiful woman (stranger) came up to me and tried to be friendly, smiley and girly with me and effectively wanting me to check in the luggage for her, seeing I don't have much luggage myself. I said no to her, and she promptly dropped her act and stormed off. Such is life...

I don't think Christine is like that though. My opinion of course, and this might change in the weeks to come.

Wait a minute, this is a Rachel bashing thread, ain't it? Okay, sorry...

I can relate to the unprofessional aspect too and it might affect how I feel about a person who does this (depends on what the cause of the tears is tbh), but it wouldn't make me dislike them unless I thought it was some kind of ploy, etc.


Strangely enough it is the 'girly' personality that rubs me up the wrong way the most as I too find it artificial.

These women are imho second only to intelligent professional women (by 'professional' I mean their seniority/position in the work place) who have a tendency to virtually deprecate/disregard/ignore other women in their working environment and focus on/fawn over the men.

Clearly I must have self esteem issues to feel this way, but that doesn't mean I don't feel p$ssed off by these women.

I don't have these feelings towards any of this season's celeb women (well, maybe a tiny bit towards Lisa but I'm trying to fight it ), but I did feel this way about Kelly last year.

PS This is a bit deep for a Friday night...

Good girl, you!

I felt the same about Kelly last year too. Then I realised she's putting up a front to hide her family tragedy, and she didn't cry like a baby when the judges slated her in her Samba (?) night when Brendan didn't do a challenging enough routine for her and she was marked down. No excuses from her and I thought good for you, girl, and changed my attitude towards her.

But it was too late, her dad passed away the following week and she pulled out of the competition...

So sometimes this is true: don't judge the book by its cover.

I'm sure you are right about Kelly putting up a front and everyone handles grief in their own way. Plus things between her and Billy were clearly unsettled. I am glad she's coming back for the SCD Christmas Special as I think it is a nice thing to do. Unfortunately, I'd formed my irrational opinion about Kelly before she joined SCD (Lad's mags experience).

Alesha was in the lad's mag (FHM) after her win too!

LOL! I did say the my feelings were irrational (plus I didn't know that)!

She was prepared to put everything on view (so to speak). Those who aren't are deemed false/cold/dead inside etc. Personally, I think that the whole "I've always wanted to be a dancer" spiel was cringeworthy, but most people clearly didn't agree. It should be about the dancing, but having a "storyline" seems to be the most important thing

Is Rachel alright?

Well.......

She's a bit of alright.

I don't think it's disgusting - just annoying. And yes, if it's false it's really annoying. I wouldn't ever have acted the way the woman you cited did. That's really cringeworthy. However, I have smiled (simpered) a bit too much (when the vino has been flowing) and known that I must have looked awful. But it's still worked! That's why I hate it! I know how false it usually is but those on whom it is being practised don't seem to. Wake up and smell the perfume people!

Yes, by the way, you're right. This is a Rachel bashing thread. I got side-tracked...

Her looks don't come into it. However she does come across as a bit of a shallow, pampered little princess who's never really had to struggle/work hard for what she's got. S club seven was hardly the hard knocks life school.
She actually probably thinks she's had a hard time getting to where she is.
Hard hat at the ready......................

Nail on the head there, trunkster

I think it is the crudity of charade which upsets Tabitha. Effective pretence also encourages and entraps those practising it, in the long term leading to emptiness for all. Tabitha can try it on me -- it won't be so easy.

Sheila Graham the Hollywood columnist said highly intelligent and successful men were taken in by batting eyelashes. It made her want to scream.

Yeah I've really gone out on a limb there.

Look at it this way. I don't rate Kate Moss...her appeal passes ME by...but what do I mean by that? I mean in the context of the showbiz world she inhabits, where freakishly good-looking people are quite common, I think she's over-rated. However, put Kate Moss amongst any representative cross-section of 99 women including the obese, the health-impaired, the time-ravaged etc and, barring some massive coincidence, I would be insane to deny that she was top 10 material at least.

Success...well again context is everything. It's the nature of showbiz that we tend to hear about the success stories. The 90%+ of actors / singers / models who we don't know and will never know will, I think, include a large proportion of those who could reasonably be described as 'not successful'. Most household names have legitimate claims in this regard. I don't follow her career but arguably Rachel is not at the height of her success. Nevertheless she was chosen for the cast of the 2008 UK version of one of the biggest worldwide TV phenomena of the 21st century.

This is not necessarily about ulterior motives...which implies deliberate misleading IMO. It's about perspective. It's about accepting that negative, even undesirable emotions are a reality for many people...not some wild theory...but perfectly natural and widely observed behaviour. It's about acknowledging that not everyone can make what might be considered appropriate adjustments...or even feel it's necessary to do so.

Bitter much? I don't think many of the celebs have really had to struggle in life, so your point is moot. Thanks for airing your jealousy though.

She doesn't come across as spoiled at all IMO.

She seems a very sweet and honest girl to me and I haven't seen any tantrums either.

Pure conjectures. You said looks don't come into it and then the next breath you said 'she does come across'. That's your impression (based on how she or the situation APPEARS to you).

She may LOOK LIKE she's a pampered little princess, but even that cannot in any way, shape or form constitute her 'throwing tantrums' in the clips that was shown to the public. She simply walked away (albeit being very upset, and to me - my opinionated impression - unnecessarily so) to cry, but that's NOT throwing tantrums, surely?

You think it is, I think not. What more is there to say?

I don't understand that either

She comes across as very hard-working, determined to do her best and I don't see any 'diva' behaviour at all.
She looks great and she is a very good dancer.
That's what the competition is about.

As someone who isn't a fan of Rachel and Vincent, but who on the other hand doesn't mind them either, I have to say that I haven't seen any trantrums from Rachel so far. Obviously she has cried when things get stressful. Of course you could say that this shows she is spoilt. However, I don't know how I would react if I had to train 4 to 5 hours a day with the prospect of a live show on Saturday. Maybe, just maybe, it is a very stressful experience? I think to be fair, the added pressure and expectation of the judges doesn't help either.

I don't know her, am not familiar with her career other than that she was in a minor pop group of some sort, and I have only come across her on SCD, where I find her a bit bland to be honest.

I'd never heard of Rachel before Strictly, either. She seems to be a very sweet girl, and she can dance. Unfortunately being 'sweet' isn't what sells dancing - especially the Latin. She seems better in the training clips than she does in the actual competition. I've no doubt it's nerves, but that's something they all have, but the others are gradually learning to cope with them (or at least hide them). Lisa and Jodie were quivering wrecks in the 1st couple of weeks, but now manage to look confident.

Rachel needs to do the same; if she could develop and show some personality, then her dancing will be up with the other leaders!

That 'minor pop group' has sold about 15million + records worldwide.

That may well be but how many people could name one of their songs?