I think Rachel dances very well and should be one of the favourites.

Len really does seem to have a problem with her and Vincent and I'm not sure what it is. The other judges seem to like them but to me he has got a thing about not liking them at all (probably cos he's old and grumpy).

Last night Rachel looked at a loss as to "why don't you like me?" and I would agree with her. He seems to have a personal vendetta against them.

I was looking at Rachel and thinking her jive could have matched Jill Halfpenny's - but sadly it didn't match up. There wasn't anywhere near as much great footwork and speed as Jill's.

That being said I think Len is being really harsh with them. Maybe Vincent's isn't pushing her hard enough. I think she could do more than he's giving her.

At the risk of sounding monotonous, I always like to compare the dances on SCD with those on DWTS.

So, on Saturday, I was comparing Rachel's jive with one performed the previous night on DWTS by "Lance Bass". He comes from a similar sort of background to Rachel. Until recently he was a singer in a boy band.

If you watch Rachel's jive in isolation, and don't compare it with anything else, it looks quite nice, and is probably technically competent.

However, for those those who didn't see Lance Bass, click on the link to take a look at his jive:

Lance Bass jive

Then ask yourself how well Rachel actually "performed".

Not very well, IMO. In terms of personality, performance, zest, and "oomph" - Rachel had none.

I'm not sure if Lance's somersaults count as standard jive steps, but in terms of performance, they help.

Part of the problem lies with Vincent's lack of ideas. Vincent often tries to incorporate clever technical choreography. But that doesn't compensate for lack of performance.

I also get an impression that, in some way, Rachel isn't really trying, or thinks she's on an easy ride. Or perhaps regards this as just another job where she turns up and does some choreographed steps. She seems to lack commitment, and the desire to win. Maybe it would do her good to be in the drop zone, and then she could ask herself if she really wants to be in the competition, or not.

I don't buy into the idea that Rachel is shy - she's used to performing live in front of large crowds.

I think she has the physical ability to do well, but, at the moment, lacks the drive and motivation, and is not taking the job seriously, as a competition.

On the night and during rehearsals Vincent looks like Svengali leading an accolyte, with Rachel doing as she was told. Last week Rachel spent half the dance with her head resting on Vincent's shoulder. That might have been flattering to Vincent, but it was not flattering to a 30yo singing star. Leading lady Madonna would have none of that.

Rachel would have done better partnered with born rebel Brendan, who would have encouraged her to strke out, as he did with Kelly and Lisa. As it is Rachel would like nothing better than to melt into the chorus line second row, and Vincent is not preventing same.

Rachel needs to perform. That's all - she has a lot of ability, she just needs to perform!

She needs to stop acting like a little girl and act like the grown up beautiful woman she is.

I appreciate she is shy, but she has acted on TV, so maybe she needs to go back to that - get an acting coach? Remind herself how to act.

I agree, all Rachel needs to do is just transport her attention seeking 'boo hoo hoo it's sooooo hard' spoilt little princess training session antics to the SCD floor on a Saturday night.
Then it's hers in the bag!!...

I think you're right that he had preconceived ideas, but wrong about what they were. He didn't think she'd be useless, but he didn't think she'd be great either. His comments these last two weeks fit with what he seems to have thought all along:


So "everyone who knows nothing about dancing tells (him) she’s the favourite", but Len (who knows about dancing) get's a funny "maybe not" feeling.

There's also this:

I think it's the other way around. The clever technical choreography is one of the reasons for the (relative) lack of performance, because learning it takes time that could have been spent on sharpening the performance, and because it requires too much concentration while dancing.


She learns fairly difficult choreography (by SCD standards), and it's very different, and more difficult, than the stuff she was doing with S Club or solo. So it's not like she can walk in and just do it. And she puts in a good number of hours each week. So how is she not "really trying" or lacking commitment? Surely someone who wasn't really trying would be showing it in some objectively visible way by now, rather than just giving some people a vague impression.

How does that mean she's not shy? Performers can still be shy, nervous about performing, and so on, and such things don't always go away as they become "used" to it. For example, I think Heather said the other week that she was always nervous about performing.

Anyway, I think it's clear that Rachel has a more reserved personality than, say, Alisha or Louisa.

I like Rachel, i thought her jive was good last night.
Im not sure what Len expects from her, shes not a loud bubbly person naturally so if thats what hes after hes not going to be getting it.

I don't think it is a case that Len doesn't like Rachel; as he admitted in an interview, prior to the series starting, he hadn't heard of most of the celebs, so had no pre-conceived ideas there of who he liked/disliked.

But having seen Rachel she would seem to have all the physical attributes on her side: young, slim, not too tall and partnered with ideal (shape/size) partner in Vincent. As a singer, she has knowledge of music (so not tone deaf), and experience of performing. On training clips she has proved she is capable of moving, but when she comes out to dance she just fails to deliver. (I know all about the 'nerves' syndrome, everyone who competes suffers from it, including the pros, and certainly people like Jodie & Lisa, but it can and should by now, be overcome).

So if Len is harsh, I think it stems from disappointment. No point in him being honest with the likes of John or even Gary, because they have/had no potential, but Rachel has enormous potential. She just needs to bring it to the the dance floor.

[Maybe a good stiff drink beforehand would help??]

Totally agree,those who come from a performance background like Rachel & Heather you expect much more of, so doubly diappointed, when that essential element is missing.

Wow!
she just gets better and better!
They were phenomenal

You 'get the impression' that Rachel lacks commitment, but hard facts suggest your instincts are suspect.

She puts the hours in - more than some of the others, and takes on some very difficult choreography. If she wasn't prepared to give it her best shot she'd be asking Vincent to modify her routines.

Snap Mama!

I felt exactly the same about each of the performances last night - seems like we were singing off the same hymn sheet again I watched the show recorded as well, or I'd definately have thrown a few votes poor Rachel's way to make up for all the criticism she got.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions, it's been very interesting reading them.

I think part of the reason I want Rachel to do so well is for Vincent's sake. He's such an exciting choreographer and an amusing character - I'd love for his efforts to be rewarded. I felt he left the competition somewhat prematurely when he partnered Louisa, and this current partnership had the potential to make up for that loss.

If you compare Rachel to other contestants, who have not consistently performed as well as she has then he seems to be particularly harsh with her - perhaps, as people say, because he expects more from her. I like watching Rachel dance regardless.

And hello Sid, I remember you from the BB forums!

Hey Miss D

Who were you supporting on BB? Let's see if you had good taste then too

BB Sid - I'm shocked.

I hear it's a blood bath - how did you survive?

No offence Ignazio, but you wouldn't have lasted two minutes mate!

It got quite ugly over there, but I always tried to keep my cool

I think it's why I find the Strictly forum rather tame - and more enjoyable

Haha! I liked Darnell but I knew he wouldn't win after the whole Sara debacle. I wasn't bothered by the final, as long as Rex did not win I was fine

And, you did indeed keep your cool. I distinctly remember you being one of the polite ones. I managed not to have any arguments myself, I am not sure how. They can get pretty OTT on there but it's still better than the C4 forums

Ahhh you didn't let me down with your answer <smooch> I was backing Mo, Rachel and Darnell and was over the moon when Rex finished 4th!

Great minds think alike! <smooch back>

I'm with you on this ... I thoroughly enjoyed her dance and was quite saddened by the judges comments. Too harsh, I thought.

I don't think Rachel lacks motivation or commitment but I do think you have a point about needing a desire to win/prove yourself.

Jodie's stint in the dance off gave her some oomf, Lisa's week at the top followed by a disappointing paso gave her a bit of edge this week. You need to have some fire in the belly - even if you're just competing with yourself...ie trying to get higher marks, so striving for an 8, 9 or 10.

(Some of the guys in the competition do well imo because from the outset they have entirely friendly, jokey but usefully competitive rivalries. )

On a slightly different note. Lots of the dances this series have felt like the celebs were counting their way through ....here's this bit for 4 and now this bit , 3 kicks left etc...So not really dancing to the music just "doing moves in time" if that make sense...

I get that feeling with Rachel at times. She'll start off really well, maybe something goes v.slightly awry and from then on she's not really dancing through the routine - just hitting lines etc It is frustrating because she has so much potential...I just wish she'd stop being so careful...Vincent should take her out and get her jumping around ...it's only dancing afterall

(Generally I suspect the real secret is you have to relish performing the dance just as much, if not more than, you enjoy the training. )

There seemed to be a lot of rock and roll throwing around and sliging and very little "jive" as it appears on strictly! The tradiutional jive stuff was limited to about a third of the routine! Again it was lacklustre, she looked soo much better in training!

Lets not forget that it is vincent that is responsible for the choreography and for making his partner shine.

Sometimes i think that he concentrates more on complicated moves when he knows that his partner can cope with them than the performance element.

Vincent should know by now that the judges are po faced about the celeb coping with complicated stuff, especially when they seem to have a hiddenagenda as far as rachel is concerned.

i am surprised that she or heather can come out evrry week when they get so little positive comment.

Go Rachel & Vincent

Agreed that's what's wrong with Rachel, she is just doing moves in time! She does them very well, you watch her and can't argue she's not a good adancer but there is no spakle oomph, in fact there is no personality at all! She just seems to be like a robot going through it!

If you think about Rachel is still stuck in S Club Land, they would be given choreography along with their singing, so the choreography was secondary just to "illustrate" the songs if you will. They did the dance moves like robots as they were memorised, the important thing in terms of performance was the singing!

I think that's her problem instead of being telling the story through the dance she is letting the band tell the story and she is just doing the pictures!
I would take Lisa and Jodie over Rachel anyday as they seem to have the passion to be there.