Should I buy SACD or Blu-Ray for HD audio?

skyplusquery · 05-11-2008, 15:23

Confused - you bet!

With the early Genesis albums finally being released on hybrid SACD (plus other discs already available) I have finally been prompted into buying a suitable SACD player.

The discs are provided as SACD/CD Hybrid and DVD Dual Disc sets featuring 5.1 DTS and Dolby Digital Surround Sound and new stereo mixes of the original albums - but from what I can gather on the web (+ disc reviews on Amazon) - the SACD format is generally considered better quality than DTS / DVD Audio?

However - having looked into this more - it seems that SACD is now on its way out & I'd be better going for a more up-to-date alternative - as analogue out SACD players seem to be being phased out & the preferred HD Audio format is the newer 7.1 ch lossless compression format (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio) or Linear PCM uncompressed audio - as provided on the Sony BDPS350 (or 550) Blu-ray Disc Player for example.

As I have also been holding back from getting a Blu Ray player (currently have HDTV / Sky HD) - I wonder whether I can therefore go down the "Blu-Ray player with High Def Audio" route instead - & how this would compare to the quality of SACD? I guess a PS3 may come into the mix here as well?

I presume that Blu -ray players are NOT also compatible with SACD discs?

All comments gratefully received!! Thanks.

niall campbell · 05-11-2008, 15:27

SACD seems to go then comes back again !!

can it be killed off ??

I think you have to consider a HDMI 1.3 amp thats for sure

niall campbell · 05-11-2008, 15:29

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesar...051201-02.html

this article states HDMI 1.2 included SACD

and some say PS 3 decodes SACD as well

http://www.avforums.com/forums/integ...cd-please.html

skyplusquery · 05-11-2008, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

and some say PS 3 decodes SACD as well

http://www.avforums.com/forums/integ...cd-please.html

Yes - as far as I can gather some of the older PS3's were SACD compatible - but the later ones no longer carry the SACD logo / don't work with SACD discs.

Which seems to imply that the SACD format is on its way out?

Nigel Goodwin · 05-11-2008, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyplusquery

Which seems to imply that the SACD format is on its way out?

I thought it had already gone!

It was one of the biggest flops around.

paulr2006 · 05-11-2008, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I thought it had already gone!

It was one of the biggest flops around.

No that was Betamax

although I really liked mine

willowfan · 05-11-2008, 16:42

Only the launch PS3s support SACD, newer models (40Gig onwards) do not.

skyplusquery · 05-11-2008, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I thought it had already gone!

It was one of the biggest flops around.

So I guess it is only a matter of time before all the SACD discs are re-released (yet again) in a new format!

If I'm looking at Blu-Ray from an "impressive audio" point of view - which of the cheaper end players are the best then?

tomconti · 05-11-2008, 20:57

The 60Gb PS3 models play SACD in full quality.

However - unless you buy those that are in 5.1 its a pointless purchase.

I had some early SACD that did not have a cd layer.

But they were stereo only.

Waste of time.

I still have War of the Worlds and Dark Side of the Moon but my SACD player went tits up and I do hope it returns on the PS3 at some point so I can hear those in 5.1 again

I have several DTS cd's and the quality is superb and they are all 5.1

Whether SACD or any other format is better will only apply on paper - its unlikely you would tell the difference from regular playback.

If you are interested in audio releases then Bluray is not appplicable.

While DTS-MA may offer lossless audio I dont know of plans for audio only releases.

David (2) · 05-11-2008, 21:11

I too also thought SACD was long since dead-and along with DVD-A audio as well.

I would not spend any money on SACD or DVD-A players with the idea being these discs will replace normal CD in the future - and normal CD is on the way out too.

I guess Sony could develope an audio only version of Blu-Ray, but I doubt this will happen - everything is going online now.......and thats the future.

Dave

tomconti · 05-11-2008, 23:12

DVD-A never really got off the ground and there's no listings for either format on PLAY.COM

However - if one of your fave albums has been remixed into 5.1 its worth buying - although SACD players are not that common anymore .

If you want great quality music try DTS cd's.

DTS aint going nowhere but the selection of titles is small- but they should be as future proof as ordinary cd's- although its unlikely they will play on many car cd setups

JurassicMark · 06-11-2008, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomconti

DVD-A never really got off the ground and there's no listings for either format on PLAY.COM

PLAY.COM do still sell music in these formats, but they no longer seem to have DVD-A or SACD categories for you to browse.

I bought an OPPO dvd player which plays both formats, but have only bought a few DVD-A / SACD discs, mostly due to there being not much material I like.

willowfan · 06-11-2008, 13:45

I haven't seen that many SACDs for sale but it is becoming increasingly common for new albums to be released as a CD/DVD package with the DVD having a 5.1 mix (Dolby Digital, DTS or both) plus maybe a short film/making of the album doc or 2.

niall campbell · 06-11-2008, 14:18

SCD-XA5400ES is the Sony player which is to be coupled up to the STR-DA5400ES

http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-Mo...ship-receiver/

skyplusquery · 06-11-2008, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

SCD-XA5400ES is the Sony player which is to be coupled up to the STR-DA5400ES

http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-Mo...ship-receiver/

Thanks Niall - perhaps sacd is making a come-back on the newer blu-ray players - as I have also found this one coming out soon ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063625

Chris Frost · 07-11-2008, 00:41

FWIW, SACD is now the king format for classical music aficionados.

Amazon lists over 3,400 titles on SACD in all music genres. I'm not sure how many of those are discrete titles because some span two or more genres. Quite a few of the discs are CD/SACD hybrids, so that's good news for backwards compatibility

I'm not convinced that Bluray will capture the public's imagination as a music only format though.

cp2 · 07-11-2008, 17:54

I've got some SACDs. As neither my Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD players will play multi-region DVDs or SACDs I retain my old DVD player that plays both. (I believe it is possible with some BluRays to reprogramme them for multi-region DVD but SACD is a no-no).
For SACD I have to connect to my amp with 6 phono wires. The alternative I can see is to upgrade to an Onkyo 606 or 706 which will decode a DSD audio stream and there is a Cambridge Audio DVD player that will output a DSD audio stream via the HDMI cable. Net result? Maybe a sound quality improvement, 1 HDMI cable instead of 6 phono leads, £550 hole in the bank balance. I'm thinking that this maybe doesn't make sense. I have all my CDs stored on my hard drive - wish I could do the same with the SACDs!

Badbingo · 09-11-2008, 10:54

For the Doubters out there .. Sony is releasing a new audio format disc called mobi-blu (i think).. I can gtee it will be a mega flop as nobody has heard of it and people don't trust new formats any more.. and JUST to cloud the waters Toshoba (and others) are also launching a new audio format HD-CD.. I think this is a set of formats designed to die a death few releases.. unless SONY starts to strong arm some of its acts to only release their MUZAK on these new formats.

I believe this is a late volley in the anti-piracy war, also called enjoying the music you bought wherever you like, without having to purchase it on three different formats

David (2) · 09-11-2008, 11:39

new audio disc formats?
I dont see any future in either of them. People are moving away from disc based music in a big way, and a new music disc format (even if better quality), will simply do nothing to stop the rot, and will end up costing more money to produce than it ever makes.

Dave

skyplusquery · 11-11-2008, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

People are moving away from disc based music in a big way, and a new music disc format (even if better quality), will simply do nothing to stop the rot, and will end up costing more money to produce than it ever makes.
Dave

Unless there is a fundamental move towards the availability of high quality audio downloads, I would assume that there will always be a market for alternative / higher quality disc based systems?

niall campbell · 11-11-2008, 11:59

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/2008

I thought you would would be better off buying a dedicated CD/ SACD player and connect it up via OPTICAL to a 5.1 or 7.1 amp

however that Sony wont send the decoding through the optical connection

However the Onkyo amp supports SACD

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/pro...8_5935286.html

and maybe someone can tell you how to transfer the sound to the amp ?? I see with the Sony player it can send the SACD signal via 2 channel or 5 so maybe the Onkyo decode 2 channel to 5.1 or 7.1 ??

you will see as well the Onkyo amp is HDMI 1.3 as well so your future proof for a good while

I will look up manual to try and fathom it out

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/dl/1040433/M...SR606_En_A.pdf

niall campbell · 11-11-2008, 12:10

on page 25 of the manual is 5.1 input and 7.1 input

on page 30 it says HDMI connection supports

The AV receiver’s HDMI interface is based on the following standard:
Repeater System, Deep Color, Lip Sync, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, Dolby
TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, SA-CD and Multichannel PCM

so you can either find a standalone SACD player which outputs via phono, optical or HDMI

skyplusquery · 17-11-2008, 12:13

Has anyone heard of the UK release dates yet for these new Blu-ray players that are SACD compatible?

niall campbell · 17-11-2008, 12:19

http://www.hifigear.co.uk/site/scrip...roduct_id=6782

this is one and you can get one for £300

skyplusquery · 17-11-2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

http://www.hifigear.co.uk/site/scrip...roduct_id=6782

this is one and you can get one for £300

Cheers Niall.

05-11-2008, 15:23	#1
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Should I buy SACD or Blu-Ray for HD audio? Confused - you bet! With the early Genesis albums finally being released on hybrid SACD (plus other discs already available) I have finally been prompted into buying a suitable SACD player. The discs are provided as SACD/CD Hybrid and DVD Dual Disc sets featuring 5.1 DTS and Dolby Digital Surround Sound and new stereo mixes of the original albums - but from what I can gather on the web (+ disc reviews on Amazon) - the SACD format is generally considered better quality than DTS / DVD Audio? However - having looked into this more - it seems that SACD is now on its way out & I'd be better going for a more up-to-date alternative - as analogue out SACD players seem to be being phased out & the preferred HD Audio format is the newer 7.1 ch lossless compression format (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio) or Linear PCM uncompressed audio - as provided on the Sony BDPS350 (or 550) Blu-ray Disc Player for example. As I have also been holding back from getting a Blu Ray player (currently have HDTV / Sky HD) - I wonder whether I can therefore go down the "Blu-Ray player with High Def Audio" route instead - & how this would compare to the quality of SACD? I guess a PS3 may come into the mix here as well? I presume that Blu -ray players are NOT also compatible with SACD discs? All comments gratefully received!! Thanks.

09-11-2008, 10:54	#18
Badbingo Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 33	NEW format For the Doubters out there .. Sony is releasing a new audio format disc called mobi-blu (i think).. I can gtee it will be a mega flop as nobody has heard of it and people don't trust new formats any more.. and JUST to cloud the waters Toshoba (and others) are also launching a new audio format HD-CD.. I think this is a set of formats designed to die a death few releases.. unless SONY starts to strong arm some of its acts to only release their MUZAK on these new formats. I believe this is a late volley in the anti-piracy war, also called enjoying the music you bought wherever you like, without having to purchase it on three different formats

05-11-2008, 15:27	#2
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	SACD seems to go then comes back again !! can it be killed off ?? I think you have to consider a HDMI 1.3 amp thats for sure

05-11-2008, 15:29	#3
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesar...051201-02.html this article states HDMI 1.2 included SACD and some say PS 3 decodes SACD as well http://www.avforums.com/forums/integ...cd-please.html

05-11-2008, 15:48	#4
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Quote: Originally Posted by niall campbell and some say PS 3 decodes SACD as well http://www.avforums.com/forums/integ...cd-please.html Yes - as far as I can gather some of the older PS3's were SACD compatible - but the later ones no longer carry the SACD logo / don't work with SACD discs. Which seems to imply that the SACD format is on its way out?

05-11-2008, 16:30	#5
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by skyplusquery Which seems to imply that the SACD format is on its way out? I thought it had already gone! It was one of the biggest flops around.

05-11-2008, 16:38	#6
paulr2006 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 1,098	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin I thought it had already gone! It was one of the biggest flops around. No that was Betamax although I really liked mine

05-11-2008, 16:42	#7
willowfan Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Anywhere but here Posts: 2,339	Only the launch PS3s support SACD, newer models (40Gig onwards) do not.

05-11-2008, 17:14	#8
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin I thought it had already gone! It was one of the biggest flops around. So I guess it is only a matter of time before all the SACD discs are re-released (yet again) in a new format! If I'm looking at Blu-Ray from an "impressive audio" point of view - which of the cheaper end players are the best then?

05-11-2008, 20:57	#9
tomconti Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern England Posts: 1,114	The 60Gb PS3 models play SACD in full quality. However - unless you buy those that are in 5.1 its a pointless purchase. I had some early SACD that did not have a cd layer. But they were stereo only. Waste of time. I still have War of the Worlds and Dark Side of the Moon but my SACD player went tits up and I do hope it returns on the PS3 at some point so I can hear those in 5.1 again I have several DTS cd's and the quality is superb and they are all 5.1 Whether SACD or any other format is better will only apply on paper - its unlikely you would tell the difference from regular playback. If you are interested in audio releases then Bluray is not appplicable. While DTS-MA may offer lossless audio I dont know of plans for audio only releases.

05-11-2008, 21:11	#10
David (2) Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: S.West England. Posts: 18,037	I too also thought SACD was long since dead-and along with DVD-A audio as well. I would not spend any money on SACD or DVD-A players with the idea being these discs will replace normal CD in the future - and normal CD is on the way out too. I guess Sony could develope an audio only version of Blu-Ray, but I doubt this will happen - everything is going online now.......and thats the future. Dave

05-11-2008, 23:12	#11
tomconti Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern England Posts: 1,114	DVD-A never really got off the ground and there's no listings for either format on PLAY.COM However - if one of your fave albums has been remixed into 5.1 its worth buying - although SACD players are not that common anymore . If you want great quality music try DTS cd's. DTS aint going nowhere but the selection of titles is small- but they should be as future proof as ordinary cd's- although its unlikely they will play on many car cd setups

06-11-2008, 13:28	#12
JurassicMark Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nottingham Posts: 5,578	Quote: Originally Posted by tomconti DVD-A never really got off the ground and there's no listings for either format on PLAY.COM PLAY.COM do still sell music in these formats, but they no longer seem to have DVD-A or SACD categories for you to browse. I bought an OPPO dvd player which plays both formats, but have only bought a few DVD-A / SACD discs, mostly due to there being not much material I like.

06-11-2008, 13:45	#13
willowfan Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Anywhere but here Posts: 2,339	I haven't seen that many SACDs for sale but it is becoming increasingly common for new albums to be released as a CD/DVD package with the DVD having a 5.1 mix (Dolby Digital, DTS or both) plus maybe a short film/making of the album doc or 2.

06-11-2008, 14:18	#14
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	SCD-XA5400ES is the Sony player which is to be coupled up to the STR-DA5400ES http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-Mo...ship-receiver/

06-11-2008, 22:24	#15
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Quote: Originally Posted by niall campbell SCD-XA5400ES is the Sony player which is to be coupled up to the STR-DA5400ES http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-Mo...ship-receiver/ Thanks Niall - perhaps sacd is making a come-back on the newer blu-ray players - as I have also found this one coming out soon ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063625

07-11-2008, 00:41	#16
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	FWIW, SACD is now the king format for classical music aficionados. Amazon lists over 3,400 titles on SACD in all music genres. I'm not sure how many of those are discrete titles because some span two or more genres. Quite a few of the discs are CD/SACD hybrids, so that's good news for backwards compatibility I'm not convinced that Bluray will capture the public's imagination as a music only format though.

07-11-2008, 17:54	#17
cp2 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Standish, near Wigan Posts: 525	I've got some SACDs. As neither my Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD players will play multi-region DVDs or SACDs I retain my old DVD player that plays both. (I believe it is possible with some BluRays to reprogramme them for multi-region DVD but SACD is a no-no). For SACD I have to connect to my amp with 6 phono wires. The alternative I can see is to upgrade to an Onkyo 606 or 706 which will decode a DSD audio stream and there is a Cambridge Audio DVD player that will output a DSD audio stream via the HDMI cable. Net result? Maybe a sound quality improvement, 1 HDMI cable instead of 6 phono leads, £550 hole in the bank balance. I'm thinking that this maybe doesn't make sense. I have all my CDs stored on my hard drive - wish I could do the same with the SACDs!

09-11-2008, 11:39	#19
David (2) Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: S.West England. Posts: 18,037	new audio disc formats? I dont see any future in either of them. People are moving away from disc based music in a big way, and a new music disc format (even if better quality), will simply do nothing to stop the rot, and will end up costing more money to produce than it ever makes. Dave

11-11-2008, 11:40	#20
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Quote: Originally Posted by David (2) People are moving away from disc based music in a big way, and a new music disc format (even if better quality), will simply do nothing to stop the rot, and will end up costing more money to produce than it ever makes. Dave Unless there is a fundamental move towards the availability of high quality audio downloads, I would assume that there will always be a market for alternative / higher quality disc based systems?

11-11-2008, 11:59	#21
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/2008 I thought you would would be better off buying a dedicated CD/ SACD player and connect it up via OPTICAL to a 5.1 or 7.1 amp however that Sony wont send the decoding through the optical connection However the Onkyo amp supports SACD http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/pro...8_5935286.html and maybe someone can tell you how to transfer the sound to the amp ?? I see with the Sony player it can send the SACD signal via 2 channel or 5 so maybe the Onkyo decode 2 channel to 5.1 or 7.1 ?? you will see as well the Onkyo amp is HDMI 1.3 as well so your future proof for a good while I will look up manual to try and fathom it out http://www.eu.onkyo.com/dl/1040433/M...SR606_En_A.pdf

11-11-2008, 12:10	#22
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	on page 25 of the manual is 5.1 input and 7.1 input on page 30 it says HDMI connection supports The AV receiver’s HDMI interface is based on the following standard: Repeater System, Deep Color, Lip Sync, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, SA-CD and Multichannel PCM so you can either find a standalone SACD player which outputs via phono, optical or HDMI

DS Forums

Should I buy SACD or Blu-Ray for HD audio?

17-11-2008, 12:13	#23
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Has anyone heard of the UK release dates yet for these new Blu-ray players that are SACD compatible?

17-11-2008, 12:19	#24
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	http://www.hifigear.co.uk/site/scrip...roduct_id=6782 this is one and you can get one for £300

17-11-2008, 13:22	#25
skyplusquery Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71	Quote: Originally Posted by niall campbell http://www.hifigear.co.uk/site/scrip...roduct_id=6782 this is one and you can get one for £300 Cheers Niall.