Be Aware of the Water Damage excuse

mattwoodfield · 06-11-2008, 07:13

Right, so my 14 year old niece took her 8 month old SE W910i into her local Vodafone store last Friday becuase the phone kept freezing every ten minutes. The women in the Vodafone shop said to her it will just need a software update, and it will be sorted!!

So she goes and collects it yesterday, only to be told that it is water damage and is unrepairable!!!!

They showed her a picture of the back of her phone, with the battery out next to the handset!!! It showed nothing what so ever!!! She hasnt even got a " sticker " on her battery / back of phone!!!

So she gets home, puts her sim back in and battery and she not only finds that everything that was on the phone before she took it in is still on it ( they never attempted a software upgrade!), but also the slide is extremly stiff!!!

Now i have been on the phone to Vodafone earlier, and they wernt any help what so ever! She said well its water damage and thats that. I said you havent even attempted a software upgrade, which is what she was told... and also its come back in a worse condition that it went in!

I feel as though the local Vodafone store has bullied her really, and they knew my neice wasnt going to say anything being only 14!

It has been escalated into a complaint, and a manager will be phoning me back.

This isnt the 1st time i have had problems. I have been a customer for 5 years, with 4 handsets on the account. I have had 1 phone lost while being repaired, and a phone refused to be returned even though it was less than two weeks old with a problem. Okay both of these have been sorted, which is why i had the confidence to upgrade with them time and time again, but i feel that if this isnt resolved i may have to take my four lines elsewhere.

I feel as though this is an excuse used in most cases with Vodafone repair centres. Im fuming, and needed to vent my frustrations on here. I sympathise with all of you having the same problems, and vodafone need to start sorting it out.

I also have read a comment from a Vodafone representative on their help centre that even if the phone comes back in a worser condition it doesnt matter becuase its not repairable. This is an utter disgusting comment, and i hope i dont get told the same thing. Its some ones property still at the end of the day, regardless of whether its in working order or not.

prking · 06-11-2008, 08:04

A couple of points.

There is a water detector inside the phone. If, when the phone is opened, the detector indicates water damage; they will not attempt to do the software upgrade as the damaged phone could affect their systems.

Could you not have done the software upgrade yourself?

What evidence do you have that Vodafone repair centres routinely use water damage as an excuse? Or that this handset hasn't, in fact, been damaged by water?

I'm not a big fan of Vodafone, they are expensive, ruin handsets with poor firmware and have poor customer service. But in this case they seem to be doing the right thing.

I would be interested to see what happens when they phone you back.

mattwoodfield · 06-11-2008, 08:50

How do i do a firmware upgrade myself?? My neice has no computer to perform it on, and i doubt she is going to know how to do it. I pay good money each month for all four of my lines... cant they do it instore?

Secondly, why are vodafone supplying handsets to UK customers, when they are obviously not suited to our climate. Moisture is everywhere, therefore... every phone is going to be water damaged at some point.

Thirdly, I am basing this on the numerous amount of people that are on the Vodafone network who have experienced this water damage problem.... do a quick google search and there are thousands.

Oh, and they arnt expensive for me to be honest, becuase i have been with them for 5 years we get good deals, just a shame they might be about to lose a loyal customer.

goomba · 06-11-2008, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattwoodfield

How do i do a firmware upgrade myself?? My neice has no computer to perform it on, and i doubt she is going to know how to do it.

Settings, General Tab, Update Service.

mattwoodfield · 06-11-2008, 10:15

Cheers! I shall get her to do it later. Now its just the slide that really stiff now!!!

Talizman · 06-11-2008, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by goomba

Settings, General Tab, Update Service.

That will cost a LOT of money if the software is large in quantity.

To the OP: if you can get to a computer with web access, install the software CD that came with it, attach the cable from the phone to the computer and on the software you'll see the option to update, click on it and follow the instructions.

mattwoodfield · 06-11-2008, 10:50

She has no way of getting to a computer as she doesnt own one.

I would be able to do it, if she didnt live 180 miles away!

Thanks for the info, but now i know that, there is no way im doing that update thing via the handset!

Inkblot · 06-11-2008, 11:07

My SE W850i froze earlier this year. It was about a year old and still under an 18-month contract. A couple of hours later, with the phone still frozen, I took it into the local Vodafone store. The manager there pushed very hard the line that it might not be repairable; in her own words she was "managing my expectations" in case it could not be repaired.

I refused to accept this and asked her to return it to Vodafone and to give me the SIM card so I could use an old phone in the meantime. Neither she nor another member of staff could open the phone to give me the SIM and at that point they started talking about water damage being a possibility. Again I refused to accept this - the phone had only been subject to normal wear and tear - and they sent the phone back to Vodafone.

It came back with a note that the software had become corrupted and they had reinstalled it, and I could tell it had been repaired because it worked better than before. Water damage was never mentioned again, but the phone was more scratched after the repair than when I handed it in.

Lovetats · 06-11-2008, 11:10

I'm sure there were some threads a few weeks ago about Carphone Warehouse using exactly the same excuse as a reason not to repair faulty phones.

Is it an industry thing or are we all dunking our phones in the loo and denying it?

Finglonga · 06-11-2008, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattwoodfield

Secondly, why are vodafone supplying handsets to UK customers, when they are obviously not suited to our climate. Moisture is everywhere, therefore... every phone is going to be water damaged at some point.

For the indicator in the phone to show water damage the phone needs to be thoroughly soaked. The odd raindrop on it or a damp bathroom for a short period will not show up as water damage.

acoolwelshbloke · 06-11-2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finglonga

For the indicator in the phone to show water damage the phone needs to be thoroughly soaked. The odd raindrop on it or a damp bathroom for a short period will not show up as water damage.

Wrong, Lick your finger and place it on the indicator, it will turn red!

I did it on a V3x just for fun, if that phone ever got sent for repair they would just asume it was water damaged and refuse to fix it based on me putting a wet finger on the indicator.

qualafoo · 06-11-2008, 12:11

worryingly, the old water damage excuse, we cant repair this handset seems to be a very common issue with another lot as well (samsung engineers (SBE)).
never used to much of an issue...maybe its poorer made phones/ climate change / people being daft.

the photos the engineers attatch to the reports are frankly ridiculous. no none can ever see what they are meant to be showing, and yes, that includes samsung helpdesk staff.

I get the feeling that the engineers / repair centres cannot keep up with SLA's and throw a lot of the phones out as BER which simply is not the case.

yep. I am cynical.

MrKev · 06-11-2008, 12:19

Normal moisture in the air or a bit of rain as you use it outside isn't going to get liquid into the battery compartment and onto the sensor. They are generally sealed fairly well so it would take a fair splash to trigger it.

Putting a wet finger directly on the sensor is very obviously going to trigger it.

magikmax · 06-11-2008, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetats

I'm sure there were some threads a few weeks ago about Carphone Warehouse using exactly the same excuse as a reason not to repair faulty phones.

Is it an industry thing or are we all dunking our phones in the loo and denying it?

I've heard all the excuses under the sun. It's a combination of shrewed business practice, sheer ignorance, and the fact that phones simply aren't tested properly before they are released, and the fact that the phones probably genuinely cost a lot to repair if something goes wrong.

qualafoo · 06-11-2008, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrKev

Normal moisture in the air or a bit of rain as you use it outside isn't going to get liquid into the battery compartment and onto the sensor. They are generally sealed fairly well so it would take a fair splash to trigger it.

Putting a wet finger directly on the sensor is very obviously going to trigger it.

does any liquid have to be in the battery dept? not in my experience.. when i mentioned BER photos above, i meant the circuit boards inside the handset. Doesnt make sense to me how this can happen and only be a small drop, bang in the middle of the phone.

MrKev · 06-11-2008, 12:47

I was responding to the poster above yourself. I wasn't quick enough posting before you did. I was presuming the water sensor he was talking of would be in the battery compartment or similar. If most sensors are actually within the phone it makes his point even more questionable.

goomba · 06-11-2008, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talizman

That will cost a LOT of money if the software is large in quantity.

The software is not large. I can't remember the size of the last time I did it, but given it took next to no time to download I suspect it will be well under the 15MB mark, which will cost a quid on Voda on current tariffs.

Edit - SE claims 1-5MB, so a quid.

mattwoodfield · 06-11-2008, 13:46

Well according to the Vodafone rep i spoke to yesterday, water damage can happen even if you have had it in a steamy bathroom, placed it on a droplet of water on the side, txt outside when raining or even moisture in the AIR!

It can also occure from simply going from hot to cold places!

Its ridiculous.

I have a feeling she said a manager would phone, just to get me off the line... But i will phone later on when i get home from work regardless.

Inkblot · 06-11-2008, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattwoodfield

Well according to the Vodafone rep i spoke to yesterday, water damage can happen even if you have had it in a steamy bathroom, placed it on a droplet of water on the side, txt outside when raining or even moisture in the AIR!

It can also occure from simply going from hot to cold places!

The phone has to be fit for purpose. If a product sold as a mass-market consumer item for everyday use is rendered unusable by "moisture in the air" then it's not fit for purpose. If they are saying that the alleged damage is caused by normal everyday conditions then the water indicator is irrelevant because it's indicating something that should not harm a phone.

acoolwelshbloke · 06-11-2008, 14:14

Hmm i wonder why we never seem to see or hear about water damage when it comes to mp3 players, walkmans, portible cd players etc...

Niranjaniz · 06-11-2008, 14:19

bring it down the the root it is a way to not be bothered to replace your phone any excuse not to, although ive said it before i always use my phone in the bathroom to play music and ive sent my phone in for repair and no complaints, how new is the water patch? was there a different method before it?

qualafoo · 06-11-2008, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkblot

The phone has to be fit for purpose. If a product sold as a mass-market consumer item for everyday use is rendered unusable by "moisture in the air" then it's not fit for purpose. If they are saying that the alleged damage is caused by normal everyday conditions then the water indicator is irrelevant because it's indicating something that should not harm a phone.

your right, the thing is most people, on the other end of the phone to customer services / helpdesk staff have no idea how to argue this point. The manufacturers know this, and play on it big time.

engineers desicion is final, blah blah blah.
If it was me, or any of my family, i would take it all the way to the top and never let it go.

qualafoo · 06-11-2008, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by acoolwelshbloke

Hmm i wonder why we never seem to see or hear about water damage when it comes to mp3 players, walkmans, portible cd players etc...

true. its a farce

Roz · 06-11-2008, 16:40

My phone (Nokia N95 - crap) had to be repaired, and also replaced with the 3 network. The battery that came with the new handset was not mine, mine was in perfect condition and this one is covered in scratches and pen scribbles!

coopermanyorks · 06-11-2008, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roz

My phone (Nokia N95 - crap) had to be repaired, and also replaced with the 3 network. The battery that came with the new handset was not mine, mine was in perfect condition and this one is covered in scratches and pen scribbles!

Did they not tell you to take out the sim , battery and battery cover before giving it up for repair ?

Three did when my sons phone required repairing

06-11-2008, 07:13	#1
mattwoodfield Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Birmingham Posts: 5,831	Be Aware of the Water Damage excuse Right, so my 14 year old niece took her 8 month old SE W910i into her local Vodafone store last Friday becuase the phone kept freezing every ten minutes. The women in the Vodafone shop said to her it will just need a software update, and it will be sorted!! So she goes and collects it yesterday, only to be told that it is water damage and is unrepairable!!!! They showed her a picture of the back of her phone, with the battery out next to the handset!!! It showed nothing what so ever!!! She hasnt even got a " sticker " on her battery / back of phone!!! So she gets home, puts her sim back in and battery and she not only finds that everything that was on the phone before she took it in is still on it ( they never attempted a software upgrade!), but also the slide is extremly stiff!!! Now i have been on the phone to Vodafone earlier, and they wernt any help what so ever! She said well its water damage and thats that. I said you havent even attempted a software upgrade, which is what she was told... and also its come back in a worse condition that it went in! I feel as though the local Vodafone store has bullied her really, and they knew my neice wasnt going to say anything being only 14! It has been escalated into a complaint, and a manager will be phoning me back. This isnt the 1st time i have had problems. I have been a customer for 5 years, with 4 handsets on the account. I have had 1 phone lost while being repaired, and a phone refused to be returned even though it was less than two weeks old with a problem. Okay both of these have been sorted, which is why i had the confidence to upgrade with them time and time again, but i feel that if this isnt resolved i may have to take my four lines elsewhere. I feel as though this is an excuse used in most cases with Vodafone repair centres. Im fuming, and needed to vent my frustrations on here. I sympathise with all of you having the same problems, and vodafone need to start sorting it out. I also have read a comment from a Vodafone representative on their help centre that even if the phone comes back in a worser condition it doesnt matter becuase its not repairable. This is an utter disgusting comment, and i hope i dont get told the same thing. Its some ones property still at the end of the day, regardless of whether its in working order or not.

06-11-2008, 08:04	#2
prking Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Weston-super-Mare Posts: 9,167	A couple of points. There is a water detector inside the phone. If, when the phone is opened, the detector indicates water damage; they will not attempt to do the software upgrade as the damaged phone could affect their systems. Could you not have done the software upgrade yourself? What evidence do you have that Vodafone repair centres routinely use water damage as an excuse? Or that this handset hasn't, in fact, been damaged by water? I'm not a big fan of Vodafone, they are expensive, ruin handsets with poor firmware and have poor customer service. But in this case they seem to be doing the right thing. I would be interested to see what happens when they phone you back.

06-11-2008, 08:50	#3
mattwoodfield Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Birmingham Posts: 5,831	How do i do a firmware upgrade myself?? My neice has no computer to perform it on, and i doubt she is going to know how to do it. I pay good money each month for all four of my lines... cant they do it instore? Secondly, why are vodafone supplying handsets to UK customers, when they are obviously not suited to our climate. Moisture is everywhere, therefore... every phone is going to be water damaged at some point. Thirdly, I am basing this on the numerous amount of people that are on the Vodafone network who have experienced this water damage problem.... do a quick google search and there are thousands. Oh, and they arnt expensive for me to be honest, becuase i have been with them for 5 years we get good deals, just a shame they might be about to lose a loyal customer.

06-11-2008, 09:51	#4
goomba Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,444	Quote: Originally Posted by mattwoodfield How do i do a firmware upgrade myself?? My neice has no computer to perform it on, and i doubt she is going to know how to do it. Settings, General Tab, Update Service.

06-11-2008, 10:15	#5
mattwoodfield Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Birmingham Posts: 5,831	Cheers! I shall get her to do it later. Now its just the slide that really stiff now!!!

06-11-2008, 10:37	#6
Talizman Forum Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a journey Posts: 1,901	Quote: Originally Posted by goomba Settings, General Tab, Update Service. That will cost a LOT of money if the software is large in quantity. To the OP: if you can get to a computer with web access, install the software CD that came with it, attach the cable from the phone to the computer and on the software you'll see the option to update, click on it and follow the instructions.

06-11-2008, 10:50	#7
mattwoodfield Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Birmingham Posts: 5,831	She has no way of getting to a computer as she doesnt own one. I would be able to do it, if she didnt live 180 miles away! Thanks for the info, but now i know that, there is no way im doing that update thing via the handset!

06-11-2008, 11:07	#8
Inkblot Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: West London Posts: 24,316	My SE W850i froze earlier this year. It was about a year old and still under an 18-month contract. A couple of hours later, with the phone still frozen, I took it into the local Vodafone store. The manager there pushed very hard the line that it might not be repairable; in her own words she was "managing my expectations" in case it could not be repaired. I refused to accept this and asked her to return it to Vodafone and to give me the SIM card so I could use an old phone in the meantime. Neither she nor another member of staff could open the phone to give me the SIM and at that point they started talking about water damage being a possibility. Again I refused to accept this - the phone had only been subject to normal wear and tear - and they sent the phone back to Vodafone. It came back with a note that the software had become corrupted and they had reinstalled it, and I could tell it had been repaired because it worked better than before. Water damage was never mentioned again, but the phone was more scratched after the repair than when I handed it in.

06-11-2008, 11:10	#9
Lovetats Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,372	I'm sure there were some threads a few weeks ago about Carphone Warehouse using exactly the same excuse as a reason not to repair faulty phones. Is it an industry thing or are we all dunking our phones in the loo and denying it?

06-11-2008, 11:53	#10
Finglonga Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Stafford. Posts: 4,706	Quote: Originally Posted by mattwoodfield Secondly, why are vodafone supplying handsets to UK customers, when they are obviously not suited to our climate. Moisture is everywhere, therefore... every phone is going to be water damaged at some point. For the indicator in the phone to show water damage the phone needs to be thoroughly soaked. The odd raindrop on it or a damp bathroom for a short period will not show up as water damage.

06-11-2008, 12:02	#11
acoolwelshbloke Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Swansea, UK. Posts: 2,469	Quote: Originally Posted by Finglonga For the indicator in the phone to show water damage the phone needs to be thoroughly soaked. The odd raindrop on it or a damp bathroom for a short period will not show up as water damage. Wrong, Lick your finger and place it on the indicator, it will turn red! I did it on a V3x just for fun, if that phone ever got sent for repair they would just asume it was water damaged and refuse to fix it based on me putting a wet finger on the indicator.

06-11-2008, 12:11	#12
qualafoo Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sofa / at my Desk Posts: 844	worryingly, the old water damage excuse, we cant repair this handset seems to be a very common issue with another lot as well (samsung engineers (SBE)). never used to much of an issue...maybe its poorer made phones/ climate change / people being daft. the photos the engineers attatch to the reports are frankly ridiculous. no none can ever see what they are meant to be showing, and yes, that includes samsung helpdesk staff. I get the feeling that the engineers / repair centres cannot keep up with SLA's and throw a lot of the phones out as BER which simply is not the case. yep. I am cynical.

06-11-2008, 12:19	#13
MrKev Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Durham Posts: 1,636	Normal moisture in the air or a bit of rain as you use it outside isn't going to get liquid into the battery compartment and onto the sensor. They are generally sealed fairly well so it would take a fair splash to trigger it. Putting a wet finger directly on the sensor is very obviously going to trigger it.

06-11-2008, 12:23	#14
magikmax Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Scotlandshire Posts: 786	Quote: Originally Posted by Lovetats I'm sure there were some threads a few weeks ago about Carphone Warehouse using exactly the same excuse as a reason not to repair faulty phones. Is it an industry thing or are we all dunking our phones in the loo and denying it? I've heard all the excuses under the sun. It's a combination of shrewed business practice, sheer ignorance, and the fact that phones simply aren't tested properly before they are released, and the fact that the phones probably genuinely cost a lot to repair if something goes wrong.

06-11-2008, 12:23	#15
qualafoo Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sofa / at my Desk Posts: 844	Quote: Originally Posted by MrKev Normal moisture in the air or a bit of rain as you use it outside isn't going to get liquid into the battery compartment and onto the sensor. They are generally sealed fairly well so it would take a fair splash to trigger it. Putting a wet finger directly on the sensor is very obviously going to trigger it. does any liquid have to be in the battery dept? not in my experience.. when i mentioned BER photos above, i meant the circuit boards inside the handset. Doesnt make sense to me how this can happen and only be a small drop, bang in the middle of the phone.

06-11-2008, 12:47	#16
MrKev Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Durham Posts: 1,636	I was responding to the poster above yourself. I wasn't quick enough posting before you did. I was presuming the water sensor he was talking of would be in the battery compartment or similar. If most sensors are actually within the phone it makes his point even more questionable.

06-11-2008, 13:11	#17
goomba Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,444	Quote: Originally Posted by Talizman That will cost a LOT of money if the software is large in quantity. The software is not large. I can't remember the size of the last time I did it, but given it took next to no time to download I suspect it will be well under the 15MB mark, which will cost a quid on Voda on current tariffs. Edit - SE claims 1-5MB, so a quid.

06-11-2008, 13:46	#18
mattwoodfield Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Birmingham Posts: 5,831	Well according to the Vodafone rep i spoke to yesterday, water damage can happen even if you have had it in a steamy bathroom, placed it on a droplet of water on the side, txt outside when raining or even moisture in the AIR! It can also occure from simply going from hot to cold places! Its ridiculous. I have a feeling she said a manager would phone, just to get me off the line... But i will phone later on when i get home from work regardless.

06-11-2008, 14:09	#19
Inkblot Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: West London Posts: 24,316	Quote: Originally Posted by mattwoodfield Well according to the Vodafone rep i spoke to yesterday, water damage can happen even if you have had it in a steamy bathroom, placed it on a droplet of water on the side, txt outside when raining or even moisture in the AIR! It can also occure from simply going from hot to cold places! The phone has to be fit for purpose. If a product sold as a mass-market consumer item for everyday use is rendered unusable by "moisture in the air" then it's not fit for purpose. If they are saying that the alleged damage is caused by normal everyday conditions then the water indicator is irrelevant because it's indicating something that should not harm a phone.

06-11-2008, 14:14	#20
acoolwelshbloke Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Swansea, UK. Posts: 2,469	Hmm i wonder why we never seem to see or hear about water damage when it comes to mp3 players, walkmans, portible cd players etc...

06-11-2008, 14:19	#21
Niranjaniz Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: UK, Nottingham Posts: 624	bring it down the the root it is a way to not be bothered to replace your phone any excuse not to, although ive said it before i always use my phone in the bathroom to play music and ive sent my phone in for repair and no complaints, how new is the water patch? was there a different method before it?

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** Be Aware of the Water Damage excuse **

Be Aware of the Water Damage excuse

06-11-2008, 16:09	#22
qualafoo Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sofa / at my Desk Posts: 844	Quote: Originally Posted by Inkblot The phone has to be fit for purpose. If a product sold as a mass-market consumer item for everyday use is rendered unusable by "moisture in the air" then it's not fit for purpose. If they are saying that the alleged damage is caused by normal everyday conditions then the water indicator is irrelevant because it's indicating something that should not harm a phone. your right, the thing is most people, on the other end of the phone to customer services / helpdesk staff have no idea how to argue this point. The manufacturers know this, and play on it big time. engineers desicion is final, blah blah blah. If it was me, or any of my family, i would take it all the way to the top and never let it go.

06-11-2008, 16:10	#23
qualafoo Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sofa / at my Desk Posts: 844	Quote: Originally Posted by acoolwelshbloke Hmm i wonder why we never seem to see or hear about water damage when it comes to mp3 players, walkmans, portible cd players etc... true. its a farce

06-11-2008, 16:40	#24
Roz Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cambridge, England Posts: 1,427	My phone (Nokia N95 - crap) had to be repaired, and also replaced with the 3 network. The battery that came with the new handset was not mine, mine was in perfect condition and this one is covered in scratches and pen scribbles!

06-11-2008, 16:56	#25
coopermanyorks Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In Gods Own County Posts: 20,678	Quote: Originally Posted by Roz My phone (Nokia N95 - crap) had to be repaired, and also replaced with the 3 network. The battery that came with the new handset was not mine, mine was in perfect condition and this one is covered in scratches and pen scribbles! Did they not tell you to take out the sim , battery and battery cover before giving it up for repair ? Three did when my sons phone required repairing