Hello. I have a EZ45V. I'm trying to record off an old Sky+ hard drive. As the picture plays on my (sony square) TV it is in landscape 16:9 and looks good. The recording seems to be successful. Then when I playback, it slips into 4:3 and makes everything tall and thin. Can't see where I'm going wrong. PS when I recorded (copied) direct from another dVD player to the EZ45Z the aspect ratio on playback was correct. Confused OAP !!

The problem lies with your dvd recorder.

Your Sky+ sounds as if its set to output in 4:3 L/B - this uses the WideScreen Switching flag to tell a 16:9 tv to stretch the image so it will look correct on playback or to letterbox on a 4:3 set

Unfortunately most dvd recorders are incapable of recording the flag.

Panasonic only record WSS to RAM for discs but IIRC it should also record WSS on the HDD - although it wont transfer it onto a dvd from the HDD

If you copy your "tall and thin" recording to an RW disc you can use a free program on your computer to manually add the flag and then burn it back to -/+R.

The widescreen flag enables correctly proportioned 16:9 images on a wide set and also enables 4:3 letterboxed images on a 4:3 tv if the player is set to 4:3

If you want to archive a recording to dvd - you should change your Sky+ to output at 16:9 - record onto the HDD.

Transfer that to either a RAM disc if you have a RAM compatible PC or to a -RW disc.

Transfer the whole recording from RAM to your PC HDD ,and burn the recording back to -R,or use IFO Edit to manually add the WSS flag to the -RW recording then burn it back onto -R.

Job done.

The easier alternative is to get a Pioneer recorder as they record WSS from HDD to disc - albeit only on a high speed copy

Gosh. Thank you both. There's plenty to experiment with there. I thought it would be much simpler. But thanks for your help. T

The Sky box doesn't output WSS at all - it uses Pin 8 switching on the scart to change the widescreen mode of the TV, and DVD recorders can't record this signal.

Freeview boxes on the other hand do output WSS on the first half of line 23, and all DVD recorders (even VHS video) can record this signal and the TV will respond to it on playback to ensure the picture is in the right shape.

If you refer to VCR scart yes - but who uses that?

Sky+ and Sky HD outputs WSS via the tv scart .

Both my Pioneer dvd recorders record it just fine- my Panasonic never could

Anyone with half a brain will record via the tv scart as the VCR scart will not even output RGB

The Pioneer will record it to HDD and -RW(VR) but only to -R via a high speed HDD transfer.

Panasonic will record WSS to HDD and RAM

Most other recorders have problems - obviously your recorder is one of them

They must have updated the software since I had a Sky+ (which was several years ago), because the Sky+ I had would only output the SCART Pin 8 switching, and no WSS. (I have TVs capable of underscan, so can see the WSS signal).

Some DVD recorders are capable of recording the pin 8 signal, but by no means all. (And for the record, I always had my DVD recorder connected to the TV output, and the TV connected to the RGB Loop-through on my DVD recorder)

And WSS, being part of the TV signal on Line 23 would be present on both TV and VCR SCART outputs if the digibox was outputting it.

Addition, I'm at work now, and just looking at the output of a Sky digibox - Sky sports 1 is currently in widescreen, and there is no WSS present on Line 23, so the signal is only being output on Pin8 of the SCART.

I've had Sky+ since 2001 and dvd recorders since 2002.

Pin 8 switching is WSS

If it isnt - what is it?

Its been there since day 1 of Sky+ as I've always recorded in widescreen where available - even back in the days of regular digiboxes to SVHS then DVD+R.

IIRC it was Line 23 switching that was absent from Sky on most channels - although it did work on BBC at least.

We are obviously referring to different things.

The switching used by Pin8 is what I refer to as WSS because that is what it does.

As I said my Pioneer records whatever it is and all my dvd recordings are watchable in 16:9 on my wide set and display in letterboxed 4:3 on our 4:3 set

Edit- I think the mistake is in assuming that all dvdr's cannot record the Pin 8 signal.
It appears that recording in 16:9 is not wholly dependant on Line 23( not for Pioneer anyway)

I was so chuffed with the WSS from Pioneer recordings that I redid all my Panasonic recordings (2 years worth) using IFO Edit on the PC.

Had over a years worth of Philips dvd+r discs to do too

Waste of discs really but I'm a pedant about things like that

There are two methods of widescreen signalling, Sky chose to use the type that is embedded in the ancilliary data in the MPEG transport stream, which is decoded by the digibox and output via Pin 8 of the SCART, a high voltage, around 12 switches the TV to 4x3, 6v switches the TV to 16x9, and 0v means switching not used via SCART.

There is also the AFD method of widescreen signalling, which inserts a code into the video, a bit like teletext, but where teletext is in vertical blanking, WSS is in the first half of line 23, which is the first line of active picture.

Some DVD recorders can record the first type using SCART switching, but all VHS and DVD recorders can record and playback the second, AFD type of signalling.

The advantage of the WSS inserted into Line 23 is that it can have more than just 4x3 or 16x9 - it actually has several modes, including forced 16x9, 16x9 with 4x3 protected. The first will force a widescreen set or digibox into 16x9, even if you've told it you want 4x3 centre-cut, the second will allow the box to do centre-cut. There are about 9 currently defined AFD codes for Line 23 WSS.

You clearly are more familiar with the technical side of it than I am.

I believe all my 16:9 dvd's are recorded using the Pin 8 switching .

Various tests show that they all work as I wanted them to , which is automatically stretching into 16:9 on the wide set , and then on the 4:3 set I can either play them back in letterbox format or full frame centre cut out depending on the output setting of the dvd player.

As I said - the Pioneer records whatever is necessary to do it but the Panasonic and Philips recorders would not- although the Panasonic did record it to the HDD but would never transfer it to a dvd copy .

The Pioneer does but only in high speed mode .

Real time rate conversion loses the WSS aswell as all the manually added chapter stops

Unfortunately I am quite intimiate with the technicalities as it's part of my job!

It can get confusing as there are two methods of widescreen signalling in use in consumer units like Sky Digiboxes and Freeview boxes.

However, in a broadcast environment, everything is done using AFD's on Line 23 because it is always passed by equipment (unless specifically configured to blank the Line 23 signal), which ensures consistent handling throughout the broadcast chain.

When the signal is coded to be sent to the viewers home, what should happen is the encoder will read the Line 23 signal, blank it, encode the video, and insert the AFD into the MPEG data stream, which is then read by the decoder, and depending on decoder implementation, will either alter the state of pin 8 on the SCART, or will regenerate the line 23 signal for the TV to read, or even both!

OK. So where does that leave me? Can I easily make a 16:9 dvd from a 16:9 recording on my sky+ hard drive? Or do I have to do what the first two answers suggested? Would it help if I used RAM discs?

I seem to remember reading that there was a bug in the Sky "Copy Function" involving the widescreen flag and that you had to Play the Titles out normally one at a time rather than using Copy in order to preserve the flag.

I thought that it was only the later models ( ..7 series onwards ) that recorded the widescreen flag. Are you sure you just didn't have the wrong Zoom setting on your TV when you viewed this previous recording ?

As you have a Panasonic machine make sure that when you have copied the recording to the Panny HDD that it plays with WSS on your recorder.

If it does I would transfer it to a RAM disc and use your PC to copy it back to -R (assuming your PC drive accepts RAM).

If you cant play RAM on the PC then copy the recording from the Panasonic HDD to a -RW disc , then use your PC to manually add the WSS using IFO Edit before burning it back to -R.

You can then reuse the -RW next time.