Now don't you go getting like that with me Mr Stroppy
Jade and Tommy are 18 year old adults......why are they being held as being the worst examples of naive children? Because they had unprotected sex on a TV show? At 18 they are responsible (or irresponsible) for their own acts........I very much doubt that they didn't know what they were doing or the consequences of that act.........Why are they being treated like children in this case? Would it have helped if Big Bro had hit them both with sticks to show everyone that unprotected sex was a bad thing? We all know it is....they knew it was...it didn't stop them though.....

i think "teen" big brother is a bit of a misnomer... what self-respecting 18 year old would want to class themselves as a teenager? "teenager" or "teen" makes me think of 13, 14, 15, 16 year olds...still children... these teens are adults, in body and in law, and their behaviour shouldn't be justified by people citing their "youth" and "immaturity".
if they are old enough to vote, and old enough to marry without parents consent, then they are old enough to have sex and take all the consequences of that action without anyone making excuses or shifting blame.
after all, its not the first time someone has done something they might regret in front of the big brother cameras.

Okay,..I was a bit tired yesterday,...and was generally in an irritable mood all day.

Got irritated because you took my post line by line,.and some of your answers to me were clarified in other parts of my post.
Got a bit pissed off because you felt I was being patronizing,..when I honestly wasn't.
Hope that explains my abruptness

Like I said,..I don't know,.maybe Jade and Tommy are fully aware adults.

But that wasn't what I was getting at.

I was mainly questioning the remit that this was supposed to be intended for educational purposes. But it was crap on many fronts because it just sends out mixed messages.
I can fully understand why some may be outraged.
They can make some educational thing out if it later,....but they kind of have to reverse educate any confused mesages they sent out on this earlier late night slot.

They can claim it was some educational experiment all they like,..but I simply don't trust Endemol at all.

For some reason, I have to question whether Endemol is the best qualified to reckon they can educate anybody. Bit arrogant on their part when all their programmes tend to focus on exploitation and manipulation. And I'm not sure I could apreciate their brand of morality that they are bound to project.
All through the BBs they have tried to project their own morality to viewers and Hms alike.

For example.....James throws his sunglasses into teh diary rom in a bad mood,...gets scolded by BB,....falls asleep,..ends up being seriously reprimanded,...then.
BB stick all the boys and girl in one room,..let them fu*k to their hearts content,..no contraception, no condom,..nice as pie to them the next morning.

Now I'm not being outraged here,..I'm coming from a more neutral position,..but if you contrast those two examples, you have to seriously ask if you would want Endemol educating your kids.
Nothing to do with Jade and Tommy,..I couldn't care less what they do,..it's what Endemol choose to show,..that they think they have the ability to educate,..that they have more in comon with exploitation TV.
Basicaly it's about the hypocrisy of Endemol. I simply have no faith in their bullshit motives,..you can't trust them as far as you can throw them.

It's uncanny that you mention that BB should hit them with sticks,...because yesterday, I was just going to post something stupid yesterday like, "just beat them with sticks, that's what I say."

[quote]Originally posted by Alrightmate
Okay,..I was a bit tired yesterday,...and was generally in an irritable mood all day.

Got irritated because you took my post line by line,.and some of your answers to me were clarified in other parts of my post.
Got a bit pissed off because you felt I was being patronizing,..when I honestly wasn't.
Hope that explains my abruptness

No worries AM...we've both put up with a lot worse

Like I said,..I don't know,.maybe Jade and Tommy are fully aware adults.

But that wasn't what I was getting at.

I was mainly questioning the remit that this was supposed to be intended for educational purposes. But it was crap on many fronts because it just sends out mixed messages.
I can fully understand why some may be outraged.
They can make some educational thing out if it later,....but they kind of have to reverse educate any confused mesages they sent out on this earlier late night slot.

They can claim it was some educational experiment all they like,..but I simply don't trust Endemol at all.

For some reason, I have to question whether Endemol is the best qualified to reckon they can educate anybody. Bit arrogant on their part when all their programmes tend to focus on exploitation and manipulation. And I'm not sure I could apreciate their brand of morality that they are bound to project.
All through the BBs they have tried to project their own morality to viewers and Hms alike.

For example.....James throws his sunglasses into teh diary rom in a bad mood,...gets scolded by BB,....falls asleep,..ends up being seriously reprimanded,...then.
BB stick all the boys and girl in one room,..let them fu*k to their hearts content,..no contraception, no condom,..nice as pie to them the next morning.

Now I'm not being outraged here,..I'm coming from a more neutral position,..but if you contrast those two examples, you have to seriously ask if you would want Endemol educating your kids.
Nothing to do with Jade and Tommy,..I couldn't care less what they do,..it's what Endemol choose to show,..that they think they have the ability to educate,..that they have more in comon with exploitation TV.
Basicaly it's about the hypocrisy of Endemol. I simply have no faith in their bullshit motives,..you can't trust them as far as you can throw them.

It's uncanny that you mention that BB should hit them with sticks,...because yesterday, I was just going to post something stupid yesterday like, "just beat them with sticks, that's what I say."

It all depends on the way the education experience is going to be represented.....I'm of a belief it'll be a pyschological observation rather than sex ed...........The sunglasses was about being able to observe his eyes.......The shag didn't actually go that well at all did it?....how long did Jade take to regret it....did the effect on the group, how did it effect Jade and Tommy, didn't it lose Jade a holiday of the lifetime? It hardly went "unpunished" in a group context....

And we are all discussing Jade and Tommy's little fumble....But what about the girl who claimed she'd had 17 partners (5 girls)....no one has been too outraged by her claims...shouldn't we be? Is it okay as long as we don't actually see it?

[quote]Originally posted by Mesostim
[b]
Yes, it does depend on how the education is going to be represented.
But going by Endemol's track record,..I don't credit them with the ability to teach anybody anything. They have vested interests.
I don't trust them as far as I could throw them, so for them to suddenly make out that they want to dabble in education,..well they can go take a flying fu*k,..I'm not interested.

I'm not the one to say what we should be outraged against.
As far as the housemates go, I quite liked most of them. No problem with Jade and Tommy at all, or what they did,..it was up to them.
As for the girl(Shaneen?) who had 17 partners(5 girls)..she was probably one of my top three favourite out of all of them.
I was more on her side when some of the others judged her as dirty, after she had been open and revealed something about herself to them.
Going with 17 people, in itself, has no bearing on how I decide if I like her or not.

I think this is very interesting when we talk about wether an 18 yr old is an adult or not, by law of course they are, however those of us with children that age ( see, we still refer to them as children) will know that the law and reality don't mix, we would all hope that by the time they reach 18 that they have the life skills and sense to become the adults that the law states they are, in reality this just isn't true, they are still kids, this is the first time that Tommy has been away from home ( I can only speak about Tommy), and to be honest I didn't think he would last a day, he has the personality to get on with others etc, but I didn't think he would cope with the cooking (which we saw little of) etc, it amazed us when we saw him cleaning. Now wether we liked it or not, the show DID have educational content on a multitude of levels, it taught Tommy so many things about coping and mixing with others, it taught him to look deeper than the way someone dresses or talks. It also taught him we don't live in a free world where you can say a word that is in everyday use , but when you say it in front of a particular person, that innocuous word becomes racist or has racist overtures, when you see the documentary in Jan you will see why we had a giggle over this point!, needless to say Tommy hasn't got a racist thought in his body.
I don't think that at 18, normal kids who have lived at home and led a decent life have the skills of an adult, now onto the sex thing, I can only tell you what I know, and that is, Tommy never mentioned or spoke about going into the house with the intention of having sex, now if you take into account that these housemates had never met before entering the house, they were monitered by movement and what they said 24/7, how could it have been planned? it wasn't, that simple, why did it happen? God knows, we have all given our theories, but only those pair know why, and why they did it without protection is very upsetting and worrying to us as parents, BUT, I will hold my hands up and say it has happened to me in the distant past, (way distant) and at the time I didn't give it a second thought, it was just a thing that happened and I got on with my life and didn't look back, how many teenagers do you think have unprotected sex a day? thousands, it is just the fact that several million people know about Tommys mistake, and that initself with the following criticism is an educational tool in itself, it teaches youngsters that it is WRONG and unnacceptable to have unprotected sex in those circumstances, it also teaches youngsters to adopt a mature attitude and discuss the problem and not just ignore it if it does happen.
Trust me when you have an 18 yr old kid they are still your 'baby' nowhere near adults, but the law say's they are, and so be it.

By the way, to the poster who said they (BB) were as nice as pie to them the next morning, think again, what you saw on TV might have seemed that way, but in reality it wasn't, there was alot more to it than what you saw, and you must never forget it cost them the chance of a £30.000 prize, which one of them in my honest opinion (and inside info) would have won.

You get a council house or flat quicker if you're pregnant.

Oh, alright then, you've talked me into it.

Think again, you say?
Okay, I just did,...if they are claiming to show reality TV, then why didn't they show us the reality?

Why didn't they show it?..Maybe you should think again, and ask yourself why we weren't shown the reality that you describe from your inside info.
It's all very well saying,.."Ahh...but I know the truth about what went on behind the scenes".....but that's the whole point.
Why didn't they show us this reality of what really went on?

You may think that Endemol did a good job of telling you what went on,..but the point is that they are broadcasting something different to the millions who watched it.
By telling us that you have inside information,..pretty much spills the beans that Endemol deal with broadcasting a false reality.
You more or less reveal that there is much to be said for the suggestions by people, that Endemol engineer a fake reality of events to be broadcast to the viewers.

They seemed to be very moralistic to James for the simple crime of being a bit grouchy.

I wasn't aware that their actions cost them the prize?

I still think that BB try to take the moral high ground, based on what they consider to be acceptable forms of behaviour.

They cetainly like to be seen to tell Hms off for the pettiest of things,..but on other occasions they are very lenient.
I guess that if they think they'll get good ratings, they'll be more forgiving towards bad behaviour.
Sometimes they encourage bad behaviour,..other times they don't, dpending on how the ratings are.

I don't know what this educational thing will be like in January, but I have reservations about whether Endemol are the correct organization for the job.

Endemol are producers of trash TV,..I can't understand why people are so ready to trust them to educate.
They will tell you what they want you to believe,....they have your long term loyalty to Endemol products to consider for the future.

Every guise that Endemol have taken in their various shows have simply been facades to gain a veneer of repectability.

BB1..scientific experiment,..educational.
To watch the interactions of people, and gain an insight into human behaviour.

Fame Academy...an asset to the music industry,..innovated to produce an effective means to discover raw new talent,...a valuable, credible ally to the music industry. Necessary for the future of British music.

This thing in January,.....simply more rubbish that repeats the apparent objectives of BB1.

If they were talking absolute crap about BB1,..then why on earth do people believe that they really intended TeenBB to be educational?

Why are people actually trusting Endemol?..Have they really got to people that much?
Last edited by Alrightmate : 21-10-2003 at 01:15

You are asking me a few questions that only endermol have the answers to, however even with todays technology, you can't fit a full 10 days into 5 hours.But I accept all your comments

It would have been good to see more of the side you saw to it that went on.
But even when they have 24 hour feeds, they still present to us a version of reality. The whole presentation surrounding the BB shows still has an effect on viewers, and even then we'll never get to know about decisions and motivations behind the scenes.
Even certain camera cuts, decisions on what events to highlight, what they show, what they don't show, leave so much to specualtion that it's hard to get close to anything other than the reality we're given.

By the way,..are you able to say which of the two you felt would have won?

Endemol and channel 4 are only in this game to make money, they may come across as all caring but these HM's were used, as soon as they saw what they were like in there, and what went on, they rubbed their hands together and thought sod the educational stuff we will show this earlier, once the programme has finished they dump them all, and just leave them to face the consquences, yes it was wrong what happened in there, but they didnt know it would be shown on national TV, the thing is, IF they do decide to make another one will the teens in that show think they have to live up to the last one?

It's my opinion Alrightmate, that Jade would have gone on that holiday if the emotional fallout from that spur of the moment shag hadn't completely screwed up the group dynamics and her relationship with the winner.........It was a big brick in a small pond...IMO.....)

Oh...James broke a rule..there was no rule that you couldn't have sex..that's why James got a good telling off and the lurvers didn't........

I think if you read the thread entitled families you will see why Jade couldnt go with Paul, it was all a big unfair fix. I wouldnt reccomend anyone ever going on the BB programme unless your face fits you are guarnteed not to win.

I have to disagree with End1 there, it was NOT a fix, it may have been manipulated etc, but all the HM's were aware of the situation and were happy to go along with it.

But did Tommy and Jade go along with it ?

I would have thought they would be angry (altho Im not sure anyone was much bothered about the prize), at least angry afterwards.

Im surprised at the others going along with it all the same (if its true )

If it's true indeed......I'd have thought some show of anger would have been seen......And there is still that point of everyone thinking Jade would be picked for the round the world trip.....

yes but I dont think they found out until they were out the house.

I dont know why the others would go along with it so easily. Maybe they felt under a lot of pressure (if its true) or else it meant 2 opponents out the way for the prize or something.

Maybe the BB spokesperson was convincing to them or summat ?

We may well find out the answer here (if its true )

I don't understand what you're saying to me here??
That about Jade going on holiday?...I don't know what you're talking about.
Isn't that something you should be directing to weymel? I don't know anything about what went on.

Why are you going on about the sex?
James broke a rule. What rule?..A BB rule. A rule that they made up.
I was making the point that they gave James a moral lesson in how to behave. Naughty James. Don't be so grumpy and place the sunglasses nicely on the chair please.
They were certainly very arsey with James. Being in a grouchy mood wasn't in their rules, but they certainly gave him a hard time about it.
I find their choice of morality very suspect. Not talking about just anyhtin gin Teen BB,..I'm talking about everything we've seen in all BBs.
Tell Federico off for being rude doing an impression of Avid Merrion that wasn't to their taste....But then try and ridicule him to millions of people that he has a small penis.
Can anyone really trust these people to educate children, when they are capable of this crap?

You can go on about the sex all you want, there's nothing else for me to say about that to to you..but the fact is that I just don't trust Endemol to be suddenly be interested in going in to the profession of education, unless their motive is soley to make as much money as possible.