[B3aten]

PLT meaning Power Line Ethernet Adaptors, such as Comtrend being supplied by BT as part of the Vision package etc.

I would suggest you bin them.

I am a member of a group called UKQRM (www.ukqrm.org) who are trying to get them banned because they do not and cannot comply with EN55022B, conducted emissions.

Pre-compliance testing has been conducted by the Radio Society of Great Britain and have been seen to fail by a massive margin over the range of 2 - 28MHz. They carry a CE mark but are non-compliant.

Ofcom have been involved in the removal of a number of installations because of interference to other services. These devices produce massive amounts of RF interference, causing problems in a radius of up to half a mile per installation.

[weetaminute]

thats gonna cause trouble in here....

[B3aten]

I hope so!

Products that do not comply with CE regulations are being brought to market KNOWINGLY and users who buy them without knowing cannot be blamed.

[weetaminute]

I think bt give them away.

[B3aten]

I get the impression that they are still selling them rather than giving them away although they aren't expensive. I'm not a BT customer. What with Phorm and leaky forums giving user email accounts out, I seriously doubt BT's technical abilities as a corporation. They got rid of engineers and replaced them with Bureaucrats, as have so many other technical service providers, and its going to bite them hard in the arse.

[Imorrison]

I respect your right to complain about interference in Trumpton and your ability to use BT Vision without the use of PLAs but in Hampshire I need to use the PLAs provided to make BT Vision work - unless you are willing to send some one round to recable my house to meet your esoteric requirements.

If you do decidee to send someone, please ensure that they come from the real world, not the imaginary world of Trumpton where everything is perfect

[weetaminute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by B3aten

I get the impression that they are still selling them rather than giving them away although they aren't expensive. I'm not a BT customer. What with Phorm and leaky forums giving user email accounts out, I seriously doubt BT's technical abilities as a corporation. They got rid of engineers and replaced them with Bureaucrats, as have so many other technical service providers, and its going to bite them hard in the arse.

agree..

[weetaminute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imorrison

I respect your right to complain about interference in Trumpton and your ability to use BT Vision without the use of PLAs but in Hampshire I need to use the PLAs provided to make BT Vision work - unless you are willing to send some one round to recable my house to meet your esoteric requirements.

If you do decidee to send someone, please ensure that they come from the real world, not the imaginary world of Trumpton where everything is perfect

why is it anyone else's responsibility other than yours??

[airprox]

I understand the OP's issues, but as an astronomer, I'm afraid this will go the same way as light pollution. Thousands if not millions of outdoor "security" lights are sold each year and are installed/set up incorrectly so that most of the light shines up and out, instead of down towards the area they intend to illuminate, thereby flooding the night sky with another form of interference, albeit in another part of the spectrum. I regret that it will just have to be something that shortwave radio users will have to work around in the same way that astronomers do.

Cheers
Alun

[Imorrison]

Quote:

Originally Posted by weetaminute

why is it anyone else's responsibility other than yours??

Where in my post does it suggest that it is anyone else's responsibilty or ine for that matter?

[Imorrison]

Quote:

Originally Posted by weetaminute

why is it anyone else's responsibility other than yours??

Where in my post does it suggest that it is anyone else's responsibilty or ine for that matter?

I was merely stating that I, and many other people, need to use these adapters, and that short of recabling my house there is no way to avoid this.

Please do not attribute statements to me that I have not made - or inferred

[weetaminute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imorrison

Where in my post does it suggest that it is anyone else's responsibilty or ine for that matter?

I was merely stating that I, and many other people, need to use these adapters, and that short of recabling my house there is no way to avoid this.

Please do not attribute statements to me that I have not made - or inferred

in stereo..??

anyway.. inferred? I think so...

I need to use the PLAs provided to make BT Vision work - unless you are willing to send some one round to recable my house to meet your esoteric requirements.

[You_mo]

erm, what? Never heard of this one before. Funny old world, my neighbour's short wave system used to interfere with my TV, now my TV setup is interfering with the short wave radios!

[B3aten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imorrison

I respect your right to complain about interference in Trumpton and your ability to use BT Vision without the use of PLAs but in Hampshire I need to use the PLAs provided to make BT Vision work - unless you are willing to send some one round to recable my house to meet your esoteric requirements.

If you do decidee to send someone, please ensure that they come from the real world, not the imaginary world of Trumpton where everything is perfect

Thanks for a trite and condescending post.

So you go out, spend £10,000 on equipment, and one day you get home, switch your equipment on and all you get is massive, relentless interference across spectrum that you have a license to transmit on, wipeing out all signals and basically making your investment unuseable, how would you feel?

I'm not a BT Vision customer. I also don't give a toss if you are incapable of running Cat5 cabling or get a WiFi solution working. However, our concerns happen to be real-world.

Comtrend devices have been independently pre-compliance tested and failed by a massive margin - somewhere in the region of 28dB. This means that they do not comply with EU regulations and should not be marketed. We are working on getting them off the market.

I've "decidee"d not to send anyone out. Sorry.

[B3aten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by airprox

I understand the OP's issues, but as an astronomer, I'm afraid this will go the same way as light pollution. Thousands if not millions of outdoor "security" lights are sold each year and are installed/set up incorrectly so that most of the light shines up and out, instead of down towards the area they intend to illuminate, thereby flooding the night sky with another form of interference, albeit in another part of the spectrum. I regret that it will just have to be something that shortwave radio users will have to work around in the same way that astronomers do.

Cheers
Alun

Hi Alun,

Thanks - is there any legislation that you can use? We are fortunate in that we have legislation that we can use.

[B3aten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by You_mo

erm, what? Never heard of this one before. Funny old world, my neighbour's short wave system used to interfere with my TV, now my TV setup is interfering with the short wave radios!

The CE approval system has been an absolute Godsend to Radio Amateurs. The problem for a long time has been poor design and the lack of design for susceptibility of out-of-band signals. Most issues that Radio Amateurs have to deal with have been down to bad design of TV's, Amplifiers etc.

The only piece of kit I have problems with in our home is one 20 year old audio amp (The AV system has cost me about £30k). Everything that is CE marked in our home is fine - I can run 200W and cause no problems. I had an issue with my neighbours TV (Non CE marked) but solved it reasonably easily

The domestic TV license also states " You must not let your TV equipment cause undue interference to radio or TV reception"

Amateur Radio is also recognised by the Cabinet Office as a component of UK emergency services. Also, on 9/11, when the towers came down, all emergency services went off-air because essential repeaters were destroyed, and Radio Amateurs went in from hundreds of miles away to volunteer to set up emergency communications networks. We were also key in setting up networks and relief aid during the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004.

Why should we be forced off the air because some spanners are incapable of setting up a home network without polluting spectrum ILLEGALLY?

[airprox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by B3aten

Hi Alun,

Thanks - is there any legislation that you can use? We are fortunate in that we have legislation that we can use.

It's a very tricky one, if someones light is shining directly into my garden, I can approach them, and further to that can get the Environmental Health to approach them as new legislation was laid down for England and Wales a few years ago... but it's very weak, and the problem is the larger light polution issue of poor street lighting, golf clubs/driving ranges etc, all of which are exempt. There is an organisation, the Campain for Dark Skies which does all it can, but ultimately...

Cheers
Alun

[Magnetron]

I would be surprised if any powerline device would ultimately pass the standards for conducted emissions unless anyone has evidence to the contrary.

The purpose of these devices is to push signals through mains wiring and as well as conducted emissions I am sure there would be radiated as well because twin and earth is not normally shielded in the home.

The CE mark being what it is, ie normally a self declaration by the manufacturer or importer that the product complies with the relevant directives is potentially also open to abuse.

Some countries have mandatory third party approvals for safety and EMC which can be seen as restrictive to trade but in the EU we have the opposite in effect.

[belleville1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imorrison

I respect your right to complain about interference in Trumpton and your ability to use BT Vision without the use of PLAs but in Hampshire I need to use the PLAs provided to make BT Vision work - unless you are willing to send some one round to recable my house to meet your esoteric requirements.

If you do decidee to send someone, please ensure that they come from the real world, not the imaginary world of Trumpton where everything is perfect

If someone does come round to deal with interference caused by your BT Vision powerline ethernet installation, it won't be a hobbyist or shortwave enthusiast, and they won't recable your house for you to meet their "esoteric" requirements.

It'll be EMC compliance officers from the government, who will have a legal right to ask you to disable the equipment to meet the EMC requirements set down in law and find some other solution for your home networking needs. Normal ethernet cables or wi-fi would suffice, so why BT are sending out these dubious PLT devices is beyond me. They have been removed by Ofcom following an interference investigation in several instances recently. There are so many other ways of providing high quality network connectivity without causing harm to radio spectrum.

The equipment on your premises is your responsibility, and you have a legal responsibility to ensure that your unlicensed kit doesn't interfere with licensed services on the radio spectrum, including amateur radio and shortwave broadcasting, not to mention aircraft and the military. If you set up a pirate radio station broadcasting across the AM dial, you'd expect to be closed down. What's different about having your own interference generating device broadcasting across the SW dial for a half-mile radius?

I predict a short life for these devices. Either regulators will finally banish them to the ends of the earth or superior technology will come along and render them as obsolete as the ZX Spectrum, or both.

PS. Why are you going on about Trumpton, Barney McGrew?!

[weetaminute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirpipe

WTF is B3aten on about? He is not a BT Vision user so why has he brought such an anti-BT contribution to this forum?
I really object to people hijacking this forum and whinging on about BT and Phorm and bureaucrats.

1. I have worked with BT people. They are not bureaucrats except for HQ.
2. Phorm is not part of BT. They have been involved in a trial with BT but are also working with other ISPs, including Virgin Media.
3. My Powerline adapters do not interfere with any other electrical device in my house; SW radio, LW radio, FM radio, DAB radio, TV, CD, DVD, telephone, alarm clock, cooker, microwave, fridge, printer, lights, boiler controls, coffee maker, or kettle.

Go away, or be accused of being a troll.

its not anti-BT its anti PLA, which are used (most commonly?) by BT.

oh and judging by his remarks and your remarks I think he 'has you' from every angle.

[sirpipe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by weetaminute

its not anti-BT its anti PLA, which are used (most commonly?) by BT.

oh and judging by his remarks and your remarks I think he 'has you' from every angle.

On the contrary, I think it is a personal attack on BT equipment that works well in every house to which it has been sent.

I do not understand your remark about, "he 'has you' from every angle". What do you mean by that?

BTW, are you a BT vision user or a spectator?

[sirpipe]

Further to my earlier posting, I have looked at all of weetaminutes's postings on the DS forums and none of them has been helpful.

Troll alert!!

[B3aten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirpipe

Further to my earlier posting, I have looked at all of weetaminutes's postings on the DS forums and none of them has been helpful.

Troll alert!!

Do you need your bottom wiping?

You clearly are incapable of taking part in a technical discussion and you are the troll on this thread.

How can you have a personal attack on equipment? You really need to get a life....fail.

Contribute something sensible or get lost.

We are waiting.....

---

Last edited by B3aten : 17-11-2008 at 00:20. Reason: Trollification

[weetaminute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirpipe

Further to my earlier posting, I have looked at all of weetaminutes's postings on the DS forums and none of them has been helpful.

Troll alert!!

helpful to who?

didn't know I had to be helpful...

[B3aten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirpipe

Further to my earlier posting, I have looked at all of weetaminutes's postings on the DS forums and none of them has been helpful.

Troll alert!!

HAVE been useful...

/me sends troll to the naughty chair