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  • Strictly Come Dancing
Dance Rivals Livid - off-camera frustration among the SCD performers
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dome
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Melissa1743:
“But I genuinely enjoy John and Krystina's routine each week. I do not vote for them because I feel sorry for them,or to be awkward, or unreasonable or to annoy the judges. I have voted for them because I love the charm pf the dance and they move me in a way that many other technically excellent routines do not. You may not agree with me and that's fine but I have voted for the dance and couple I most enjoy watching. I didn't realise that made me sad, but perhaps you are right and I am. Sad maybe, but I am also sincere in enjoying John and Krystina's performances.
.”


Of course you are not sad.

I'm sure that's the main reason why people vote and long may you continue.

If it was a programme for the dance elitists it wouldn't be on air for long the ratings would bomb.
TallyHo77
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Melissa1743:
“But I genuinely enjoy John and Krystina's routine each week. I do not vote for them because I feel sorry for them,or to be awkward, or unreasonable or to annoy the judges. I have voted for them because I love the charm pf the dance and they move me in a way that many other technically excellent routines do not. You may not agree with me and that's fine but I have voted for the dance and couple I most enjoy watching. I didn't realise that made me sad, but perhaps you are right and I am. Sad maybe, but I am also sincere in enjoying John and Krystina's performances.
.”

Me too - yes it's mainly about Kristina (but then we do vote for the couple, right?) But that routine on Saturday? I had it as the second best of the night - just amazing.
jtnorth
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Melissa1743:
“But I genuinely enjoy John and Krystina's routine each week. I do not vote for them because I feel sorry for them,or to be awkward, or unreasonable or to annoy the judges. I have voted for them because I love the charm pf the dance and they move me in a way that many other technically excellent routines do not. You may not agree with me and that's fine but I have voted for the dance and couple I most enjoy watching. I didn't realise that made me sad, but perhaps you are right and I am. Sad maybe, but I am also sincere in enjoying John and Krystina's performances.
.”

Then you're right to vote for them, and good for you for coming on the site in the current mood. I voted for Austin, Rachel and Cherie, but I don't for a moment think it's John's fault that Cherie's gone and I think all this hysteria is ridiculous. We have it every year. I remember being in a fit of fury about Kate last year, and then when she'd gone not being able to remember what on earth I'd been so angry about.

I don't believe this story - I think it's the SCD publicity department trying to compete with the Jungle. All the bad feeling spoils the programme for me a lot, but the PR people think we love it - look at the way they egg on the judges to bicker. All the celebs took part in this show knowing that Chris Parker got to the final, as did Julian Clary and so on - they knew what they were signing up for, and nobody has any right to make John feel guilty.

The programme is meant to be fun.
ESPIONdansant
17-11-2008
I too actually enjoy John's performance.

He was never going to be a serious rival to Darren Bennett, was he?

He does the best he can and, according to the BBC, he doesn't neglect his training.

There are obviously plenty of people like me who haven't warmed to Cherie or Lisa or Rachel.

Why get so upset about a TV show?

You want a bit of wrathful indignation? What about getting worked about human rights abuses in China then? Iraq? The situation in DRC?
Psychosis
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by ESPIONdansant:
“You want a bit of wrathful indignation? What about getting worked about human rights abuses in China then? Iraq? The situation in DRC?”

Rubbish. What, do you think human beings are only capable of worrying about one thing at a time? If I worry about SCD I can't worry about human rights in China? So if I then start worrying about Iraq, I'm suddenly not caring about China? Posts like these make me despair.
luckyforest
17-11-2008
Doesn't sound reliable source to me, more like a tabloid story.
marieofromania
17-11-2008
To be fair to James (I don't know why!), he probably feels he's been a 'victim' of this kind of voting for two series in a row. On the other hand, as a professional dancer and a competitive person, I'm sure he would want to go far in a competition even if he had an awful partner himself.
grockleprincess
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by marieofromania:
“To be fair to James (I don't know why!), he probably feels he's been a 'victim' of this kind of voting for two series in a row. On the other hand, as a professional dancer and a competitive person, I'm sure he would want to go far in a competition even if he had an awful partner himself.”

He certainly wasn't impressed when he and Georgina knocked out his missus and Ray.
ESPIONdansant
17-11-2008
And Anton hasn't had a dozy bunch of partners throughout the entire six series?

Yet you never hear him complain.

Sorry, James just isn't a gentleman.
dome
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by ESPIONdansant:
“And Anton hasn't had a dozy bunch of partners throughout the entire six series?

Yet you never hear him complain.

Sorry, James just isn't a gentleman.”


He's just on The Wright Stuff, he doesn't see a problem with John still being in and if anyone knows how to get near but so far it's Anton in Series 1.
ESPIONdansant
17-11-2008
Well, Anton's not the sort to whinge. I really like him.
Muggsy
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by bobferret:
“And John does?????????????????????? It's you having the laugh! ”

Neither I, nor the Times article (which I think you failed to read) suggested that John was a potential winner. However, it did suggest that Cherie was.

Better to make sure you've understood the point of a post before jumping in with the Oliver Cromwell quotes, I always think.
moogman
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Tinydancer:
“I don't agree - in our youthful ignorance I think we expect the more senior contestants to be kicked out in the early stages but John's stint confirms what we already know - it's not just the dancing that influences the public vote .. they vote for who they like - always have .. always will!”

I think a lot voting in this are just being encouraged to do so by DJs and red-tops. It's clear that John would have a lot of support regardless, for reasons many have expressed on here, but not anywhere near the level that has been generated by the publicity. It will die down but probably has a bit longer to run yet.
rita1
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“There is something at stake for the pro dancers, when you consider Nicole being dropped. Strictly is a good living for them, so it must be frustrating and worrying to James that two years running his wife gets lumbered with a no-hoper and he gets a possible contender knocked out early.”

True, but as I said James did achieve his ambition this year, didn't he. And the pro dancers know the score surely. I feel sorry for those that keep getting knocked out early, but whatever SCD is about, whether its dancing or entertainment, what it is not about is boosting the pro dancers' careers.
40-40J's
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by nelliek:
“Um, Christopher Parker anyone? Christopher Parker, young enough to be John's grandson, but who had no sense of rhythm.
Kenny Logan? The same Kenny Logan who moved round the floor (certainly can't say 'danced') with James' wife Ola last year way past his sell-by-date?
Quentin Wilson? Dennis Taylor? Kate Garraway? Fiona Phillips?
As many other people have already said, John agreed to become the BBC's token 'older overweight unfit bloke who makes up the right mix for the programme'. I doubt that he expected to last beyond even the first dance. The fact that he has is because some of the public have fallen in love with him/Kristina/the choreography/all or none of these. The same as some of the public have fallen in love with any of the other contestants and their partners.
Ask supporters of the other contestants why they are supporting them, and in the majority of cases you will get the same sort of answer 'I like Joe/Fred/Mary/Freda'. I suspect the number of people who vote each week based purely on the best dance on the night is quite small. Even then 'best dance' is still subjective. I wasn't blown away by Rachel and Vincent's rumba. Don't know whether it was the music or what - but it just didn't do it for me.
The simple truth is that SCD will NEVER be a DANCE competition while
(a) the BBC continue to provide a cross-section of people of various ages, weight, fitness levels, previous experience, and ability to take part. And those people have other commitments which means that they can't all have the same number of training hours
(b) the BBC fail to provide the public with the chance to see the whole of the dancers in one shot, not just their feet for one second, their upper body for another two seconds, long distance for 4 seconds, feet, full body, face, all in lightning succession.
(c) the majority of the judges have no qualifications in judging ballroom and latin dance competitions.
(d) the judges currently appointed fail to provide constructive criticism of a dance. 'You jumped across the floor as if you were dancing on hot coals - and jumping all the way to the final' or 'D.U. double L' tells Joe Public very little about the dance.
(e) the current judges clearly have their favourites, and overmark/undermark accordingly.
(f) the public have absolutely no idea what each judge is looking for in a dance, nor on what basis they are awarding marks in a particular week. (e.g. are they basing it on supposed ability in that week? Performance? Or purely the dance itself, on the night? The latter being quite difficult to do I would have thought if everyone is doing a different dance. Certainly makes it much harder for the GBP. )
(g) Bruce and Tess keep telling us to vote for our favourites.”

Brilliant post - couldn't agree more!

People are banging on about 'fairness' - it is 'fair' that John stays because the public want him too - simple as. If the judges don't want the public to have their say, then don't dont have a public vote - and those of you who feel that you are being given a raw deal over John's efforts, should not vote either.

Anton De-Beke has been given duff partners year after year and only stays in the competition for a short while - is this fair? I'd like to see more of his dancing but I know that wont happen. The SCD team always give him the no-so-good dancer because they know he has the patience to deal with them - can you really see Brendon in his position...

This is an entertainment show and John has entertained - can we say the same about Bruce and his unwitty ramblings

The judges are so full of themselves, it's cringeworthy. Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen each one of the judges with one of the professional dancers doing a routine for Children in Need? This would maybe have given their [sometimes] rude comments about others some credence (especially Eileen, who is closer to John's age than she'd care to admit) because we might get to see that they know what they're talking about and it would show they are game-for-a-laugh.
mindyann
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by nelliek:
“The simple truth is that SCD will NEVER be a DANCE competition while
(a) the BBC continue to provide a cross-section of people of various ages, weight, fitness levels, previous experience, and ability to take part. And those people have other commitments which means that they can't all have the same number of training hours
(b) the BBC fail to provide the public with the chance to see the whole of the dancers in one shot, not just their feet for one second, their upper body for another two seconds, long distance for 4 seconds, feet, full body, face, all in lightning succession.
(c) the majority of the judges have no qualifications in judging ballroom and latin dance competitions.
(d) the judges currently appointed fail to provide constructive criticism of a dance. 'You jumped across the floor as if you were dancing on hot coals - and jumping all the way to the final' or 'D.U. double L' tells Joe Public very little about the dance.
(e) the current judges clearly have their favourites, and overmark/undermark accordingly.
(f) the public have absolutely no idea what each judge is looking for in a dance, nor on what basis they are awarding marks in a particular week. (e.g. are they basing it on supposed ability in that week? Performance? Or purely the dance itself, on the night? The latter being quite difficult to do I would have thought if everyone is doing a different dance. Certainly makes it much harder for the GBP. )
(g) Bruce and Tess keep telling us to vote for our favourites.”

Snipped for space, but <thumb up>!

I would also add while they still have It Takes Two running as the sister show, everynight of the week, promoting the personalities of the contestants, giving them stories and journies and rollercoaster rides.


Originally Posted by katie_p:
“There is something at stake for the pro dancers, when you consider Nicole being dropped. Strictly is a good living for them, so it must be frustrating and worrying to James that two years running his wife gets lumbered with a no-hoper and he gets a possible contender knocked out early.”


Having the hopeless duffer year on year hasn't done Anton any harm in contractual terms.

Being knocked out with a good contestant more than once when the designated duffer with personality goes through over her hasn't done Camilla any harm.

But they have both taken the hands dealt them by the producers with grace and aplomb.
i4u
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by mindyann:
“....Having the hopeless duffer year on year hasn't done Anton any harm in contractual terms.

Being knocked out with a good contestant more than once when the designated duffer with personality goes through over her hasn't done Camilla any harm.

But they have both taken the hands dealt them by the producers with grace and aplomb.”

How dare you call Anton the Hopless Duffer.!

Anton's just said he holds no grudges despite not getting to the final due to Chris Parker in series one. So maybe the other dancers and judges should lighten up and enjoy the moment.
BunsenHoneydew
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by kittles:
“It's no surprise though is it?

To use an allegory - If there was someone at your work who was no effing good at their job and had brown nosed their way to the top denying you your promotion or payrise on the way, how much would you go out of your way to be nice to them? It may not be professional or kind but they're only human and are reacting as I think the vast majority of people would.”

Are you really comparing a celebrity dancing competition to your working life? How is John staying in the competition and Cheri going going to effect Cheri's life? I think that the answer lies somewhere between nothing and zero.

Steve
Muggsy
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by BunsenHoneydew:
“Are you really comparing a celebrity dancing competition to your working life? How is John staying in the competition and Cheri going going to effect Cheri's life? I think that the answer lies somewhere between nothing and zero.

Steve”

You mean there are workplaces where promotion isn't down to a public telephone poll? I'm shocked.
Snikpoh
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by 40-40J's:
“Brilliant post - couldn't agree more!

People are banging on about 'fairness' - it is 'fair' that John stays because the public want him too - simple as. If the judges don't want the public to have their say, then don't dont have a public vote - and those of you who feel that you are being given a raw deal over John's efforts, should not vote either.

Anton De-Beke has been given duff partners year after year and only stays in the competition for a short while - is this fair? I'd like to see more of his dancing but I know that wont happen. The SCD team always give him the no-so-good dancer because they know he has the patience to deal with them - can you really see Brendon in his position...


This is an entertainment show and John has entertained - can we say the same about Bruce and his unwitty ramblings

The judges are so full of themselves, it's cringeworthy. Wouldn't it have been nice to have seen each one of the judges with one of the professional dancers doing a routine for Children in Need? This would maybe have given their [sometimes] rude comments about others some credence (especially Eileen, who is closer to John's age than she'd care to admit) because we might get to see that they know what they're talking about and it would show they are game-for-a-laugh.”

Who is Eileen?
Last edited by Snikpoh : 17-11-2008 at 10:25
Roatobi
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by BunsenHoneydew:
“Are you really comparing a celebrity dancing competition to your working life? How is John staying in the competition and Cheri going going to effect Cheri's life? I think that the answer lies somewhere between nothing and zero.

Steve”

Here here

I've just heard Arlene Phillips and Kate Garraway discussing it on 5live like it was as important as the fall of the Berlin Wall. FFS its a dancing competition for dead beat celebs hoofing it up. Why all the drama? Some people need to venture outside once in a while.
Servalan
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by TallyHo77:
“Honestly, this argument is just silly. How paranoid are you - do you think John edits It Takes Two?

Eh?! For a start all the contestants beg for votes, and Tess also reminds us that each couple "needs your votes". Second, intelligence (or "apparent" intelligence) is a bad thing? Of course the world would be a much more interesting place were it populated with minor celebs whose every bland utterance contains the words "amazing", "journey" and "please vote for us" in various tedious combinations.

What a load of tosh. I'm not picking on you particularly by dissecting your post, but really - how dare you spout such bile about John just because you don't like him? "Obviously happy"? I didn't see any evidence of that. I did see that Rachel and Lisa should get a bit more perspective though.

Thank goodness this forum is far from representative of the millions who watch this show.”

It's not John I dislike - it's his behaviour. And in answer to your reponse to my "load of old tosh" (LOL) ...

No - obviously John doesn't edit ITT. But you don't have to be paranoid to see how John is using that show and his interviews to up his profile. He baits the judges and the public love it. I'm not the only one who has noticed this. If you prefer to see things differently, fine - but it's there for all to see ...

And I did say the BBC has gone all out to make the most of the Sergeant scandal they have built up ... I don't hold John totally responsible.

I didn't see anyone beg for votes on Saturday. So I fail to see the point you are making ...

And as for "bile" - pur-lease. If you want bile, try looking at some of the posts made about Tom, Rachel and Cherie. The points I made were all driven by what we have all seen and heard John do and say. It is fair to say he must feel obviously happy about the way his "campaign" is going, otherwise he would have said otherwise. He has had ample opportunity to comment on the last two dance-offs and has remained curiously silent. Which pretty much says it all ...
Slainte Mhath
17-11-2008
It isn't a dancing competition - it's a popularity contest based around dancing.

Whether you decide who to support each week is based on the quality of their dancing or any other criteria you choose, it's not just a dancing competition and all those who insist it is have lost all perspective.

If they want it to actually be a dance competition then they'll do away with the public vote and get in some competent judges.
dome
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Servalan:
“It's not John I dislike - it's his behaviour. And in answer to your reponse to my "load of old tosh" (LOL) ...

No - obviously John doesn't edit ITT. But you don't have to be paranoid to see how John is using that show and his interviews to up his profile. He baits the judges and the public love it. I'm not the only one who has noticed this. If you prefer to see things differently, fine - but it's there for all to see ...

And I did say the BBC has gone all out to make the most of the Sergeant scandal they have built up ... I don't hold John totally responsible.

I didn't see anyone beg for votes on Saturday. So I fail to see the point you are making ...

And as for "bile" - pur-lease. If you want bile, try looking at some of the posts made about Tom, Rachel and Cherie. The points I made were all driven by what we have all seen and heard John do and say. It is fair to say he must feel obviously happy about the way his "campaign" is going, otherwise he would have said otherwise. He has had ample opportunity to comment on the last two dance-offs and has remained curiously silent. Which pretty much says it all ... ”


There is no reason for him to say anything.

As for baiting the judges do that for themselves.

Believe it or not the only reason that all the celebs are there is to raise their profile, it has nothing to do with the love of dance. Some may well love dancing afterwards but it wasn't what made them sign up.
alan29
17-11-2008
Originally Posted by Slainte Mhath:
“It isn't a dancing competition - it's a popularity contest based around dancing.

Whether you decide who to support each week is based on the quality of their dancing or any other criteria you choose, it's not just a dancing competition and all those who insist it is have lost all perspective.

If they want it to actually be a dance competition then they'll do away with the public vote and get in some competent judges.”

So I guess it would be OK if all the celebs learned two or three moves and endlessly did them (rather badly) while the professionals danced around them. Then they could just ask the public to vote for them on whatever criteria they wanted.
That sounds like a rivetting bit of TV. I wonder why nobody has tried it.
Alan
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