What's wrong with Tom?

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missfrankiecat

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Smokeychan1:
“As for Austin, don't get me started. There is nothing endearing about a middle-aged man behaving like a slightly naughty 10-year old unless he happens to be among children at the time.”

35 is middle aged now? Help!

moonbaby

22-11-2008

This is the biggest pile of tosh I have ever read on this forum!

To accuse women of disliking Camilla because in 'your opinion' she is attractive is extremley mysoginistic. Likewise assuming that Erin and Lilia are not attracitve because you don't find them so is equally stupid and narrow minded. Have you not heard of the saying 'beauty is the eye of the beholder'? Why do you assume eveyone will see things from your point of view?

Alli-F

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“35 is middle aged now? Help! ”

That makes me old and decrepid!

BuddyBontheNet

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by FarmLoon:
“I have to imagine that all this antipathy towards Camilla is from women, not from men. I suppose she's too attractive, too much fun, too sexy to appeal to the many women who watch this programme. They must find her a threat in some way. They seem to find Lilia and Erin more attractive which I find amazing as they're not attractive at all. Very plain in fact. Is it that they're less of a threat to the psyche of the females watching the show? I don't know, but it does seem that many of the people who dislike Tom do so, not because of Tom but because of Camilla. A weird and warped and totally irrational reason.

The boy is easily the best dancer in the group left, but for some reason no one is interested in this. It all depends on whether they like him as a person or not. I can understand that to an extent. I know he's better than Austin but at least he doesn't try to curry favour with the audience in the way that Austin does.Last night on ITT where he popped up "by accident" between Erin and Matthew while Claudia was interviewing them and kneeled there pulling focus as much as possible during the rest of the interview. Despite his being an awful personality and much more smug than Tom, you can see that he has done well with his dancing. He does have a natural ability, probably more than Rachel or Lisa do. It should really come down to Tom and Austin in the final, but Tom can never win it. Why? Because the fans don't like Camilla. How pathetic is that?”

Are you mad?

Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“By the way, I find insults such as yours to other forum members and broad generalisations far more pathetic. I don't find Camilla particularly sexy, but that's not the reason why I don't like her. I'm not taken by her dancing and her facial expression during the dancing. I also think she overdances, and her routines IMO are predictable. I think she is otherwise a lovely person. I don't like Erin very much personally, however, she doesn't overdance and seems to produce routines for her partners that IMO are great (apart from Muppetgate). I don't care if Lilia is good looking or not, but the woman is a genius when it comes to creating good dances for her celebrities.

We are not all that shallow that we are just driven by the looks of people you know. We don't all support a celebrity male, because he is good looking and we don't all dislike a female because she is good looking.”

Originally Posted by moonbaby:
“This is the biggest pile of tosh I have ever read on this forum!

To accuse women of disliking Camilla because in 'your opinion' she is attractive is extremley mysoginistic. Likewise assuming that Erin and Lilia are not attracitve because you don't find them so is equally stupid and narrow minded. Have you not heard of the saying 'beauty is the eye of the beholder'? Why do you assume eveyone will see things from your point of view?”

Well said lach doch mal and moonbaby.

(I'm still trying to work out if FarmLoon is serious or just yanking our chains.

)

Jan2555*GG*

22-11-2008

Asking for 10s AGAIN thats whats wrong with Tom

Xassy

22-11-2008

I have to say, I did like Tom's dance tonight but I had to squint to avoid seeing his tango face which was bad, albeit not as bad as his paso face. He's desperate for a 10, he must be gutted with four 9s!

CityofRoses

22-11-2008

I actually feel a bit sorry for Tom, given the amount of undeserved 10's thrown at Rachel & Austin, the judges could've at least given him one 10 by now, it's a bit like Mark in season four.

Shappy

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Xassy:
“I have to say, I did like Tom's dance tonight but I had to squint to avoid seeing his tango face which was bad, albeit not as bad as his paso face. He's desperate for a 10, he must be gutted with four 9s!”

Actually I thought both Camilla and Tom's reaction to their 9's was sweet and genuine - they both seemed so pleased - unlike Brendan whose face looks pinched whatever score he and Lisa get. Considering Tom wanted a 10, he still so seemed to pleased with his 9's, which just made me think he can't be that desperate for them.

dogsdinner

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“Asking for 10s AGAIN thats whats wrong with Tom”

Actually I don't think he's ASKING for them, he would like a 10 just like I am sure all the other contestants would like a 10 - they would be mad not to!

flashgirl

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Shappy:
“Actually I thought both Camilla and Tom's reaction to their 9's was sweet and genuine - they both seemed so pleased - unlike Brendan whose face looks pinched whatever score he and Lisa get. Considering Tom wanted a 10, he still so seemed to pleased with his 9's, which just made me think he can't be that desperate for them.”

I thought that too. I've not been a Tom fan at all up to now, but I thought his tango was great tonight and I really liked how excited he and Camilla seemed by the marks.

BuddyBontheNet

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by flashgirl:
“I thought that too. I've not been a Tom fan at all up to now, but I thought his tango was great tonight and I really liked how excited he and Camilla seemed by the marks.”

I'm not a big Tom fan but I thought his tango was great - better than Austin's last week - I didn't 'get' it at all last week.

I'd like Lisa to go out those left, but if she's in the dance off with Jodie or Christine, I think Lisa will be saved by the judges which is a shame as I've voted for both Jodie & Christine.

footygirl

22-11-2008

Well I have just slung about 10 votes Tom's way

footygirl

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by CityofRoses:
“I actually feel a bit sorry for Tom, given the amount of undeserved 10's thrown at Rachel & Austin, the judges could've at least given him one 10 by now, it's a bit like Mark in season four.”

And look what happened to Mark Ramprakash

he won

While all the tens and lavish praise thrown the way of Emma Bunton ended in a semi final defeat

pickledgherkin

22-11-2008

Tom danced very well tonight and Camilla was great as always. I'm not the greatest Tom fan but credit where credit is due.

BuddyBontheNet

22-11-2008

Remember though that Alesha won without getting 4 10s.

I would chose Tom over Austin if they were the final two, as I find Tom more exciting to watch - on the other hand though I prefer watching Erin than Camilla!

CityofRoses

22-11-2008

I have a feeling the semi final will be Austin getting through on public votes and a Rachel/Tom dance off with the judges sending poor Camilla packing two years running.

SCD-Observer

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“That makes me old and decrepid! ”

I am 34 and am I supposed to undergo mid-life crisis next year? *shudders*

SCD-Observer

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by pickledgherkin:
“Tom danced very well tonight and Camilla was great as always. I'm not the greatest Tom fan but credit where credit is due.”

Me too. Don't really warm to Tom. But his Doctor Sam persona is far more attractive and it suited the tango. Well done, Dr Sam!

Shappy

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by CityofRoses:
“I have a feeling the semi final will be Austin getting through on public votes and a Rachel/Tom dance off with the judges sending poor Camilla packing two years running.”

footygirl

22-11-2008

Rachel is good but not as good as Tom.

JukeJive

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“I am 34 and am I supposed to undergo mid-life crisis next year? *shudders*”

36 is the best year, so you've still got it to come, girl, and the mid-life crisis is around 42/43. 46? 50 looms, trust me, I'm looming.

angelac

22-11-2008

Completely depends on what dance they get - who would have though Matt getting through over Gethin last year??

Jan2555*GG*

22-11-2008

I was suprised to see that 36 was their higest score ....Gethin got that in week 5 for the Vienesse Waltz. I think that his routines might be just a little sloppy, he said himself he hasnt done one without a mistake yet. Whereas last year Camilla said that Gethin never ever got a routine wrong from week 1 it was always the performance with him. I think Tom's mind is away with the fairies sometimes.

angelac

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“I was suprised to see that 36 was their higest score ....Gethin got that in week 5 for the Vienesse Waltz. I think that his routines might be just a little sloppy, he said himself he hasnt done one without a mistake yet. Whereas last year Camilla said that Gethin never ever got a routine wrong from week 1 it was always the performance with him. I think Tom's mind is away with the fairies sometimes.”

I think perhaps that you need to get over the Gethin v Tom comparison.... the arguments you make above are meaningless as it doesn't relate to this year's competition.

I don't see Matt comparing Alesha to Christine and where she was in week 10.

In week 10, Tom was second, regardless of where he was v Gethin.

thenetworkbabe

22-11-2008

Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I think that's part of the issue...Tom hasn't been vulnerable get. Every other competitor has.

This brings up certain issues (and all of them have to work together IMO, hence Emma and Tom suffering it, but not Jill or Alesha):

1) The public is not needed - the public feel a bit worthless when the couple is constantly at the top. This leads to...

2) Judge's favourite - why are they always top? Arde they the favourites??? Why are the judges so biased??? Resulting in defending those lower down.

3) Inhuman - I don't mean this in a bad way, but when someone is strong at everything, then they seem slightly different from everyone else, which tends to isolate them from the majority.

4) Previous experience - Questions are asked even when not proved. Look at Austin as an example. This leads to cries of unfairness (again), and a rise in support for the 'underdog'.

Unrelated to these issues (but important when differianting between Tom and, say Jill) is that of Tom's personality. Some call him bland - I'd argue he's very much like Austin: both have a jokey, sarcastic, confident nature which is generally well liked by people. However, as there are two contestants like this in this year's competition, one's being overshadowed by the other IMO, and in this situation Tom is being overshadowed slightly by Austin.

Add to these: the Gethin factor and lack of perrcieved partnership with Camilla, and the unpopularity of Camilla when compared to others (must be something to do with the name ), and I think that's why Tom and Camilla seem to have a reasonable anti-following.

Sorry, that was a longer post that I thought it'd be. ”

Great breakdown. There's something too of the completely irrational. Emma Bunton and Alesha are not that different. Alesha just wasn't seen as too good even when she got the same marks for similar performances.. Emma was more successful in her career at being bubbly which just didn't carry over into that audience. Matt Dawson to me had the charisma of a tree but Ray and Spooney went dancing better at the time . Gethin was wimpier than Zoe Salmon or Konnie Huq but emerged as a hunky male with a journey. Zoe Ball who started the ladette movement was seen as too posh and nice. Jessie was seen as common- Christine is seen as pleasantly ordinary. Rachel was seen as dull wheras Cherie was seen as serene. Tom is better technically than the male winners but suffers from not having a (shorter) journey to get there. Its all pretty random and the wonder is how the labels travel and build and why anyone believes them.

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