It's very subtle Jill but it's most definitely there. For me it goes all the way back too describing Colin as "airy fairy" (and no I have no idea if Colin is gay or straight). Whereas Darren danced like a bloke. There are other little asides, usually when he's exchanging banter with Brucie.

While I would agree with you that Austin is a great dancer, but I would vigourously dispute Matt Dawson and Darren Gough being described as such

He wasn't really nasty to John, he said he was the same age and he couldn't make allowances for him just because he was older - it's not Help the Aged. Or something like that. Obviously he didn't want good dancers to go out and John to stay instead but he also said the previous week that if he was at home and not judging he would be voting for John.

Craig and Arlene were pretty bad, especially Arlene, but talking to the press, as Arlene did last week to the NoTW, and saying really vile things, was the pits. Craig having a go at John as he and Kristina came down the stairs after being saved. Len wasn't like that. I have gone off Len a bit but we must be fair.

He gave a similar comment to Joey Fatone of N'Sync.

My take on that comment is that Colin and Erin were very equal on the dancefloor, the AS to Me and My Shadow is a prime example, whereas likes of Austin is definately taking lead. That what Len likes as opposed to it being any comment on someone's sexuality.

I think both Goughie and Matt Dawson produced some of the most beautiful ballroom dances in Strictly history.

The comment Len made was in relation to Colin's Rumba and specifically when Arlene compared Colin's finished arm movements to Darren's rather less refined ones. Len went into one of his "know-it-all" moments and said you can't expect Darren (the bloke) to move like "airy fairy Colin". There are some other comments as I said before sometimes at the expense of Bruno who appears to (on camera at least) appears to laugh it off.


As for Darren and Matt, I'll simply agree to disagree

It was staged so put the pitchforks away.

I'll put in a bit of defence for Len. When this show started, Len had the trickiest job, because he was the professional judge - he judges competitions when there's a black and white criteria for what drops points. So he had to revise his judgements to suit a show that was also about entertainment - the others could do whatever they wished. That was difficult. Then, as he came to see Craig (who had no internal conflict about sometimes focussing on the technical conventions and other times on the theatrical aspects) sometimes marking so outrageously low, and Bruno (who doesn't care what criteria he uses to suit his mood) marking so outrageously high, he started - understandably IMHO - to vote to counteract their excesses (hence the sevens). Now I think he's just downright tired and disoriented, but, in the long term, he's played a well-meaning game that hasn't been appreciated by some on here.

I think the judges are under the illusion that they are the main part of the show and that their petty arguments are entertaining, although personally I think they're just annoying and take the focus away from the person they are supposed to be judging. I don't think it was Len alone that was out of order, I thought Craig shouldn't have interrupted which sparked the whole argument in the first place. I think they need telling that they're there to judge, not to make the whole show about them.

I don't agree - I thought Len was going to explode! His attacks on Craig are so venemous and unwarranted, I wish the smug git would go back to his kiddies' dance school and stay there.
Craig for head judge!

I have watched all series since Strictly One, and after watching last night's programme, I am sadly hanging up my strictly shoes. Whether that spat between Len and Craig was staged or not, it was downright nasty. And the spectacle of John Sargent bowing out of the competition because he was too popular with the viewers was too ridiculous for words. And I've never voted for JS. What has Strictly become?

Then I will stop watching. That man is pure poison.

Much as Len gets on my nerves this series I'd get rid of the others first.

Which almost identical to the comment Joey Fatone got after his rumba.

I agree about the egos. I think in Len's case, if you look at all the series, he's had the most understandable decline. You look at Craig, and most of what he says is right, but it is cynically one-sided from dancer to dancer - if he likes you, he'll ignore some blatant technical errors (e.g. Cherie) and if he hates you he'll absolutely destroy you for them. You look at Bruno, and he'll be all over the place. Then you look at Arlene: she used to be pretty astute, but then the muscles, sex and god knows what else crept in and she's almost as contrary these days as Bruno. Now, for the professional judge that is Len, the combination of these things is going to (a) make you counteract the excesses by favouring the '7/8' band of marking, and (b) make you increasingly angry about the others (especially Craig, because Craig knows exactly what he's doing when he flits from one set of criteria to the other). So, much as Len's annoyed me, like the others, this year, I feel a bit for him, because he's the centre that's trying to hold.

I think Len is really awful this series. He's spoiling for a fight every Saturday, usually with Craig, but he picks on Arlene and Bruno too.
And I don't like ITT any more now that it's becoming the Len Goodman show.

I don't like Craig but I did agree with him that Len was out of order.

Telling a woman to "get her knickers off" even as a joke - for someone who has to work on TV isn't really fair. It was kind of funny - but I'm sure she must have been mortified. Particularly given her character - she's quite shy.

She'll no doubt get blokes shouting that at her in the street now.

I just don't think there is any reason that can be justified for Len's "outbursts" on SCD......i still remember his "attack" on Lisa/Brendan last year and although he said in his book he had apologised to Brendan has he ever apologised to Lisa ??

We all have bad days but in any other working environment Len's obviously aggressive "outbursts" would not be tolerated and they put a very negative feeling into a show that is supposed to be "light family entertainment".

Mind you i said all this last year and he's still there and gets even more coverage on ITT

He wasn't even objecting to that. Remember Craig talking about 'fat pigs' last year? He's hardly a feminist.


(Anyway, this clearly a dialogue between deaf people. No point in trying any more.)

Oh Craig is responsible for some of the worst comments on Strictly - him & Arlene. However that doesn't mean he wasn't right in this instance that Len was out of line.

Since Bruce makes a big thing about SCD being a family show, why do the judges think it is acceptable to behave in such a rude way?

I tell you, any child of mine that rolled their eyes and pulled faces like Len did, when an adult was speaking would be sent straight to their room!

He might not agree with Arlene, but they all have a chance to make their (frequently bonkers) point.
Eye rolling, interrupting and shouting each other down is just rude and sets a dreadful example.
Last edited by mimi dlc : 23-11-2008 at 14:01

I totally agree, his behaviour was appalling. Once again. I used to really like Len, but his persistent rudeness towards the other judges (and this and last week's episodes were the top) and his arrogance when talking to people have made him, for me, the worse of the judges.
I don't have kids, but I agree that that interrupting other judges and shouting is unacceptable in a show that is watched by children - and even as an adult I get royally annoyed by it too.
Get a grip Len.

I think he's a bit of a dirty old man - his innuendo-laden comments to Alesha last year about coming to his dressing room turned my stomach and his comments about fat middle aged women not voting for Alesha due to jealousy were beyond the pale.

I think it's a generational thing tho' - he's not in tune with what's acceptable nowadays and keeps overstepping the mark.

Why don't they just go to "deadlock" a la X-factor if it's tied Len should NOT have the casting vote.....the power has gone to his head.


Last nights rant at Craig was because he realised his real personality had slipped out I.E the knicker comment to Christine, so he distracted attention/covered up for it by launching one at Craig.

I too think if the vote is tied it needs to go to deadlock .......why should Len be able to in essence have two votes

Len is definately losing the plot and believes only his opinion is valid

Explain how deadlock works please?

I would prefer it if, if the judges were spilt, the person with lowest vote would go. I don't understand why they don't do that.

While I accept that it wasn't clear cut and these things are in the eye of the beholder, I felt that Len's tone to Colin and the way he was contrasted with 'manly' Darren was unpleasant, unnecessary and at best open to misinterpretation. I thought less of Len for it.

Producers clearly believe that judges fighting is popular. They do it on all these kinds of shows. Though it annoys me, I'm willing to believe they are right about what gets them viewers.