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Rachel cannot win |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: north east england
Posts: 10,586
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When was Alesha a pin up before SCD? I know she did FHM after.
i doubt many of the strictly audience knew much about alesha or rachel pre strictly. I have no idea which of the two was a bigger pin up beforehand. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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I have plenty of female friends who couldn't take to Kelly Brook but love Rachel - so this argument about young, attractive pin-ups alienating female viewers isn't washing with me.
(It doesn't happen only with female viewers.) The mistake many make is that they think that if young, attractive, etc women tend to alienate viewers, then it will happen in absolutely every case regardless of any other factors. Or they try to pick off other factors one by one, thinking that if they can find one counter-example to each, then they can't possibly matter in other cases. BTW, one phenomenon that's often seen is that it's as if there's only so much dislike to go around, and if one woman is getting it (Kelly, say) others won't (or not as much). |
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#53 |
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Posts: n/a
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Once again Veri, we will have to agree to disagree!
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#54 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
i'm talking about during strictly. No one cares what they did beforehand.
Rachel and Kelly were both pretty well known for doing lad's mags. Alesha wasn't. Kelly was still being slagged off for things that happened (or people thought had happened) when she was presenting the Big Breakfast. And so on. Quote:
And Alesha wore shorter dresses then Rachel does so if women really were threatened by looks and so on they'd have disliked Alesha for that.
If only it were so simple!Quote:
i doubt many of the strictly audience knew much about alesha or rachel pre strictly. Rachel was probably much better known, which may be one reason why she's getting more dislike.
I have no idea which of the two was a bigger pin up beforehand. |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On the sofa
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Given that the viewer/voters are mainly female - & that Rachel is gorgeous & rich I'd say it's very, very unlikely that she'd win.
![]() It will be Tom or Austin. So how did Alesha win last year then? ![]() I don't think Rachel is rich btw - wasn't there some controversy about how badly they were paid? *should have read rest of thread before posting , shouldn't I?* Last edited by spider9 : 23-11-2008 at 15:57. Reason: this point seems to have been well covered! |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Down to earth
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I would agree with this. I do however think Emma was a girls girls too and hugely popular in the spice girls but like Rachel didnt have a huge fanbase on strictly. Maybe it is partly down to the judges. No one minded Rachel getting 39 for her rhumba but getting 40 for a foxtrot was a bit extreme. Even Alesha who some claimed was the judges favourite never got a 40 for her stunning waltz.
I like Rachel but so far her best dances have all been the slow pasionate ones. She needs to inject a bit more of a performance into her other dances. It will be interesting to see how she copes with the cha cha and tango where performance is a lot more important then footwork IMO. |
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#57 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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I find it quite sexist and patronising that people have to come up with reasons Alesha wasn't threatening to female voters as though the entire female population is exactly alike and all of them are seething with hatred at any attractive female on tv, I think a lot of the time people are more likely to vote for people that they fancy which is most likely to be male contestants since most of the voters are women. Also why does it have to be hatred or jealousy? It could well just be apathy that led to people like Rachel & Emma not having much public support, neither of them are particularly exciting performers and just like in real life sometimes you warm to people and sometimes you don't, there doesn't have to be a reason for it.
But I'm glad to have seen it because I never understood previously why the prettiest female contestants are often voted out in the early on. (This refers more to BB than SCD - but I think it played a part in Gaby & Penny going early last year). That's not to say all women are like that - my friends thank God. |
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#58 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Why not, when it sounds like you have plenty of female friends who are confirming instances? People disliking one while liking someone similar is just the sort of thing I'd expect when a young, attractive, etc women is alienating (female) viewers.
(It doesn't happen only with female viewers.) The mistake many make is that they think that if young, attractive, etc women tend to alienate viewers, then it will happen in absolutely every case regardless of any other factors. Or they try to pick off other factors one by one, thinking that if they can find one counter-example to each, then they can't possibly matter in other cases. BTW, one phenomenon that's often seen is that it's as if there's only so much dislike to go around, and if one woman is getting it (Kelly, say) others won't (or not as much). Quote:
You're very wrong there. Many negative opinions of Kelly were formed before SCD or were influenced by things from before SCD, for instance. And the same is true of Lisa and Rachel and perhaps others too this year.
Rachel and Kelly were both pretty well known for doing lad's mags. Alesha wasn't. Kelly was still being slagged off for things that happened (or people thought had happened) when she was presenting the Big Breakfast. And so on. If only it were so simple! Rachel was probably much better known, which may be one reason why she's getting more dislike. The anti-Kelly stuff on here last year was extraordinary. |
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#59 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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I have plenty of female friends who couldn't take to Kelly Brook but love Rachel - so this argument about young, attractive pin-ups alienating female viewers isn't washing with me.
Kelly Brook is tall, sexy, glamourous with long shapely legs. Rachel may have a "sexy" image, but she is short with less attractive legs and face. For this reason, she may be less unpopular with the girlies than Kelly. Alesha is sweet and smilie (although tall and pretty). She came across as unthreatening - and being mixed race, a lot of the female whites voting might identify a white woman like Kelly as more of a "threat" than Alesha. Christine is tall, long legged and sexy - but has a girlie/smilie image. If you are a sexy woman, dealing with other women - a large dollop of self-deprecation goes a long way towards placating them and causing them to draw in their claws. ![]() ![]() ![]()
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#60 |
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Posts: n/a
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Rachel & Vincent were haven't really had any of the showy dances yet. No Paso, Tango or Cha Cha. Their most showy were the American Smooth & Rumba. .
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#61 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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Alesha is sweet and smilie (although tall and pretty). She came across as unthreatening - and being mixed race, a lot of the female whites voting might identify a white woman like Kelly as more of a "threat" than Alesha. ![]() Whats your excuse for pretty Christine getting so many votes? Aleshas a girly girl yes but im sure she has just as many male admirers as kelly and Rachel. I dont agree that someone being mixed race makes them less threatening. I actually find that a slightly offensive remark to make. I wish people would make there mind up one minute if your black/mixed race your at a disadvantage and wont win now if your black your less threatening so have more chance of winning. |
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#62 |
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Join Date: May 2007
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Im not a fan of Rachel,nothing to do with her looks, as I think she is pretty but average, not drop dead. Her dancing is good and she remembers most of the steps.
but there is no wow factor in her, she doesnt blow me away when she dances, its like dancing to numbers. That is what I think is putting the people off, she has no emotion to her dance. |
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#63 |
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Posts: n/a
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Females are notorious for their bitchiness - with good reason.
Kelly Brook is tall, sexy, glamourous with long shapely legs. Rachel may have a "sexy" image, but she is short with less attractive legs and face. For this reason, she may be less unpopular with the girlies than Kelly. Alesha is sweet and smilie (although tall and pretty). She came across as unthreatening - and being mixed race, a lot of the female whites voting might identify a white woman like Kelly as more of a "threat" than Alesha. Christine is tall, long legged and sexy - but has a girlie/smilie image. If you are a sexy woman, dealing with other women - a large dollop of self-deprecation goes a long way towards placating them and causing them to draw in their claws. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() There seem to be so many exceptions to the rule. You can be attractive but not tall, attractive but not white and attractive but not smiley. Wasn't Penny tall, white and smiley? And she was well-liked. Ditto Jodie. It's all sounding a bit make-it-up-as-you-go-along to me. |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Alesha is just as pretty as Rachel and they are both pin ups for males so i dont think women as a whole are jealous or threatened of pretty women.
Thats just a consipiracy theory. I think rachel can win it this year. The votes (according to the People) show how far down the pecking order the females in the show are: John 1.7 million Tom 890,000 Austin 700,000 Christine 500,000 Lisa 300,000 approx Rachel 300,000 approx Jodie 300,000 approx Cherie 200,000 Viewers of early evening TV will be accustomed to seeing Christine (smiley and bubbly) on their TV screens - so she picks up more votes than the other females. Lisa (tall, sexy, long legged), Rachel, sexy girl-band image, Jodie (tall, sexy, long legged ex-supermodel) are right near the bottom. Cherie is "old" and has the cheek to be slim, attractive - with long legs - so she's right at the bottom of the pile. The older, unfit, smiley guy who can't dance - is right at the top! The voting rationale has nothing to do with the dancers' skills - Cherie - consistently among the top scorers throughout the competition, Rachel, a very good dancer - are languishing right at the bottom. Who is at the top? Why the blokes, of course. (Do the Blokey-Cokey...... |
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#65 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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There seem to be so many exceptions to the rule.
You can be attractive but not tall, attractive but not white and attractive but not smiley. Wasn't Penny tall, white and smiley? And she was well-liked. It's all sounding a bit make-it-up-as-you-go-along to me. Penny was smiley and girlie - and deemed relatively unthreatening. But she didn't get many votes anyway. Gabby was tall, long legged and attractive - but was not liked - the excuse being that she was "too competitive" . All the people taking part in SCD are competitive. They are all in this competition to raise their profile career-wise. Kelly was frequently criticised for being "smug" - probably because she didn't grin and giggle as often as Alesha. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Who is at the top? Why the blokes, of course. (Do the Blokey-Cokey...... I do recall an all girl final between Jill and Denise, so how do these stats fit in with your anti girl theory? |
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#67 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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So how do you explain Alesha's success and that of Jill and Natasha.
I do recall an all girl final between Jill and Denise, so how do these stats fit in with your anti girl theory? Gawd knows how he can justify Jill and natasha winning, Maybe they werent pretty enough for the poster. :yawn: |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Ignazio & beanbean, there's no point in arguing with them. Some people will never accept that women saying they don't warm to another woman is not about their looks. God forbid it could possibly be that it's their personality (or lack thereof) that puts people off!
As a woman there are many very beautiful, successful women who I both like and admire, but I admire them for the people they are not what they look like. Conversely there are also some that I don't warm to/like, again down to their personality. That's how I and millions of other women judge people. Although according to some people that can't possibly be true. No, we're all jealous apparently. Of course there are a some women it applies to, in the same way some men judge women purely on their looks. Those people are simply very shallow, male or female. |
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#69 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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I think you're right, because she may make it to the final but I don't think she'll get enough votes to win. With any luck she'll go out fairly soon, and take Lisa with her. I can't stand those two!
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#70 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Trust me, this is not make it up as I go along.
Penny was smiley and girlie - and deemed relatively unthreatening. But she didn't get many votes anyway. Gabby was tall, long legged and attractive - but was not liked - the excuse being that she was "too competitive" . Me, as a laydee, I like Lisa, Christine and Jodie. |
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#71 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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As a woman there are many very beautiful, successful women who I both like and admire, but I admire them for the people they are not what they look like. That's how I and millions of other women judge people. Although according to some people that can't possibly be true.
No, we're all jealous apparently. |
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#72 |
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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I don't think it's to do with attractiveness but judging by whom wins BB women I think on the whole vote for someone they could see as being their mate or someone they could imagine themselves going out on the town with i.e sort of one of the girls. Alesha and Jill fitted that mould and I think Christine and Jodie do too, Gaby perceived as over-ambitious didn't nor I imagine Denise fit it either - I don't think other women relate to sporty type women well. Kelly possibly came across as the sort who'd compete with you for the blokes and win and Rachel possibly comes across as a bit too aloof.
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#73 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Down to earth
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Females are notorious for their bitchiness - with good reason.
Kelly Brook is tall, sexy, glamourous with long shapely legs. Rachel may have a "sexy" image, but she is short with less attractive legs and face. For this reason, she may be less unpopular with the girlies than Kelly. Alesha is sweet and smilie (although tall and pretty). She came across as unthreatening - and being mixed race, a lot of the female whites voting might identify a white woman like Kelly as more of a "threat" than Alesha. Christine is tall, long legged and sexy - but has a girlie/smilie image. If you are a sexy woman, dealing with other women - a large dollop of self-deprecation goes a long way towards placating them and causing them to draw in their claws. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() To say that some women take against the pretty ones doesn't mean that all do. I don't for a start & that's partly what makes me impatient with the nonsense on here. I've read comments such as "Lisa is over-confident", "not pretty enough to be a supermodel", "how did she get George Clooney?" as though any of that were relevant to her dancing. Personally, there's not been a single woman on this show that I've actually disliked. |
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#74 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Alesha and Denise are black so thats why they were popular and nonthreatening according to the OP.
Gawd knows how he can justify Jill and natasha winning, Maybe they werent pretty enough for the poster. :yawn: Alesha is stunning, but won because - a) She was a great dancer b) She had a wonderful personality and huge enthusiasm for the show. Jill similarly. She also beat the hugely popular Julian Clary. Wasn't keen on Natasha but she had very weak opposition and was the best of a bad lot. Rachel just isn't a very appealing personality. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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The negativity towards Christine started after her Quickstep when she got upset at the judges comments, some people really blew her reaction out of proportion and decided she felt she was above criticism, even though plenty of other people have had the same reaction to the judges comments.
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