You're missing the point. The idea is not that anyone consciously dislikes women because of their looks. And of course the dislikers think it's because of personality and so on. But it can't be that simple, because (a) they're not mind-readers and their claims about personality require unjustified assumptions about what's going on in women's heads, and (b) because other people see the women has having very different personalities.


WHo says it's not complex? Certainly not me. It's obviously not as simple as "just seeing red at any pretty women that walks by". But there is clearly something odd going on with how viewers react to good-looking young women in reality shows.

There's a lot of sweeping generalisations on these forums about female jelousy, a lot of people just can't accept that a woman could dislike another women without the root of it being jealously, is that not reducing women to a stereotype?

I like Rachel & Vincent and think they have really worked hard to win over the judges despite a whole load of "didn't deserve tens" posts.

More than anyone they have really took on the comments and worked on them which I admire.

I don't think it is just a bitchy thing that people don't like Rachel, everyone has their reasons, however a lot of comments have been rather unsupported in regard to her personality or lack of, and very negative and presumptive too.

I find her and Vincents partnership funny, entertaining and genuine, and solid despite the bumpy ride.

I will say that this year so many off hand comments by the judges have been swooped on, the smug thing, the dead eyes thing, that have been adopted by lots of folks as fact not opinion.

I hope she gets to the final, Vincents routines have been really great as always and I think she is definitely one of the best remaining contestants.

Perfect summary.

.... vote for someone they could see as being their mate or someone they could imagine themselves going out on the town with.

It's the perfect test to apply to any reality TV contestant, male or female.

People who fail that test, fail to get public support.

Not really - I just felt that it was an indication that Christine wasn't as without ego as her and some of her fans would have you believe. Other comments like her referring to the competition as a marathon not a sprint and her creeping up the leaderboard have led me to believe she's not as non-competitive as some people think she is. I'm not the only person who thinks like this and it annoys me that some people leap down your throat if you dare to criticize her but think nothing of saying very negative things about Tom, Austin, Rachel and/or Lisa.

I agree about Christine but I still think her reaction was really blown out of proportion, the amount of people calling her a fake bitch on here you'd think she'd morphed into Dom Littlewood an gone on a tirade about how the judges hated her.

Clearly not representative of your general viewer though, or she wouldn't have survived so many bottom 3rd positions on the leaderboard.

I dont think these people who accuse those who dislike Rachel of 'jealousy' realise that its actually a form of mysoginy. Im assuming these are male posters? I can't see women coming out with such piffle to be honest.

Accusing women of disliking another woman because of perceived jealousy is mysoginistic.

I suppose we could say these men are all shallow because they only like Rachel because they fancy her and had pics of her on their bedroom walls when they were 12?

I think though that in itself as a reaction to some people going on about how she's so sweet and without ego and she's got their vote because she's as ruthlessly competitive as everyone else which I personally think is rubbish. I think she's media savvy enough to know what she's doing in playing up to the 'sweet modest little me' image - I'm not saying she's a horrid person but I think she's projecting an image of herself to get votes and sadly it's working.

I've not been able to warm to Rachel as I have with the other female contestants this year, and I don't know why that is.

I'm hoping she doesn't get to the final because I don't get excited by her dancing.

I agree that Christine is definitely competitive - surely you have to be to some extent anyway to want to be in showbiz where you essentially spend your career competing for the public's attention in some way or other!

I just think there are different levels of competitiveness, some more attractive than others.

Gaby reminds me of my sister in a way - she is very good at sport, hideously competitive and hates being beaten by anyone, especially someone she deems not as good as her at whatever activity it is. She was so bad when we were young that my parents banned her from playing board games as her tantrums if she lost were legendary!

That type of competitiveness is great on the sports field but not so much on a light entertainment show, hence why I think people were put off Gaby a bit, especially as her partner was as bad if not worse than she was on that front! I liked Denise a lot but I think some people were also put off her for similar reasons. Gary Rhodes also fit the bill here (though he was also crap!)

Then there's the competitiveness tinged with desperation, which I have to agree both Lisa (much as I love her) and Rachel have exhibited a bit of when in the bottom 2. Also a bit off-putting. It's a TV entertainment/dance show, not a matter of life and death and they completely over-reacted to being in the bottom 2.

Finally there's being competitive but having fun at the same time, which is the way most contestants on SCD are. Jodie, Austin, Mark, Tom and latterly Christine all definitely fit into this category this year.

I agree to some extent except that I think that it's Brendan's fault if Lisa is like this because he's so competitive he won't allow her to progress at her own pace if that makes sense if she was with a gentler character like Matt or Ian. She seems to be a lot more realistic about her marks and her expectations of herself than Brendan is.

I also disagree about Jodie - I get the impression from what she says that she's competing with herself - she doesn't expect to win or to get better scores than anyone else but just aims to get better and is happy if she does - although she does want to stay in for as long as she can. This is a good type of competitiveness. Tom and Christine are different - Tom talks of 10's and beating Austin - fair enough he is very good - and Christine of saying things that indicate at least to me that she can overtake the competition by stealth almost - which I hope isn't true as hubbie (who unlike me likes her) says she's just not as good as other people.

I don't know about Gaby although perhaps she's isn't like your sister.

It's not as simple as that. It depends to some extent who she is against. I would definitely vote for Rachel rather than Austin but against Tom it would depend on how they both danced on the night.

Do you know much of the history of trying to account for human behaviour using rules? Of course if you imagine that there is a simple and rigid rule there will be numerous exceptions!


Sure, but if someone wanted to do full justice to the complexity of it all, they'd have to write a rather long essay, or perhaps a book, rather than a forum post.


I pointed out somewhere above that it's not only women. It's also possible, btw, to have a long discussion about whether "jealousy" is the right word.

Imo people who think they do know are often mistaken. A lot of things make more sense if it's assumed that people like or dislike contestants for reasons that are unknown, and the reasons that they give, and that come to mind when they reflect on it, are more like post hoc rationalisations.

I felt about Emma much the way that you feel about Rachel, and I could give the sorts of reasons people give. It did seem to me that she was lacking in personality, that her dances were missing something, and so on. But then, why did she seem that way to me? Who knows?

I'm a psychologist by trade, so I know plenty about human behaviour thank you very much.

Agree.
It's much more complex than that. Judging by threads on this forum and the BBC message board, a lot of women fantasize about male dancers (right now the choice is Tom or Austin). They wish them success and want to see more of their favourites. And when the male dancers are in danger of elimination and the threat comes from a successful female contender, the fans often turn against the source of threat - who is usually a younger good-looking and talented woman.

Cheers, Sid!
I remember your thoughtful comments from last year.

Because women are too stupid to understand why they don't like someone? "Poor little things ...they don't even know their own thought processes."
You don't have to be a mind reader to work out a few clues about a personality...you can just try listening to what the person says. It isn't, I would suggest, an unjustified assumption to form an opinion that Rachel, placid and polite as she appears, is not the brightest and has nothing original or amusing to say. That's not a reason to hate her, or denigrate her undoubted dancing skills but it's a perfectly valid reason not to warm to her personality, which has nothing to do with her looks. Equally, if you don't value intelligence or wit as a quality in men or women, then obviously her lovely looks may weigh more heavily with you. But don't accuse others of lack of insight into their motivations!

I so hope your right that she wont win, as i am getting teed off at her getting high marks for do nothing special and those like Austin who work the floor get piffle.

For God's sake give the girl a break - she just happens to be different from a lot of people, as Brian Fortuna so aptly put it "Rachel has a delicate, gentle personality" - she just happens to be completely different to how we all imagined she would be IMO

Absolutely. The dislike is never explicit - it's always couched in terms of - she's fake, competitive, over-confident, insipid, too clever, not clever enough, gut instinct... whatever.

For all those who are getting miffed about being tarred with the same brush, of course there are women who dislike a female contestant for genuine reasons - but it's impossible to tell which is which on here! There's so much un-necessary bitching.

Women need to think about why they dislike other women so often - they don't take instant dislikes to male competitors in the same way, nor do they rake over their characters in such obsessive detail.

But why do you require great intellect in a dancer on reality TV show? In real life I'm known for intolerance of people who don't come up to my intellectual standards. I like my friends to be highly educated, highly intellectual, funny & original. I don't expect some random contestant on a TV dance show to be the brain of Britain. I don't expect good conversation, insight, or wit. And I'm certainly not going to take against her if she can't provide it. Why would you care? I don't give a monkeys.

Oh for goodness sake, we all like what and who we like for different reasons.

I happen to like Rachel, and Jodie and Alesha last year come to that. I like Heather too. My very favourite this year, apart from Phil who was knocked out first, has been John. I also like Tom and Austin. What eclectic taste eh? Very difficult to unpack any jealousy issues from my like list.

But I could not warm to Cherie, and again anyone who did not like her was accused of jealousy.

They human psyche is complicated and varied. It is a simple case of we like who we like and thats an end on it, or something like that. Trying to assign jealousy and tying yourself in knots doing it, does no one, especially not Rachel, any favours at all.

All reality production teams attempt to put together a cast of characters who will appeal in some way to their target audience. But they will not all appeal to everyone. Hence we have 16 very different people and not 16 clones. I get sick to death every year during BB of being accused of jealousy because there are certain housemates I do not like. It is a cheap shot there and a very cheap shot in Rachel's case.

I think it is a great shame that Rachel is not more popular with the voters. But it would never enter my head to accuse those people of jealousy. It is their personal taste and choice.

Jodie and Lisa have both been among the 'elite' if you like of beautiful people. Rachel is more the girl next door, very pretty but not beautiful. So accusing those who cannot warm to her of jealousy is, well, trite. It is as bad as accusing those who did not like Heather and Don of racism, an easy cheap shot. Or accusing those who do not like John of not being intelligent enough to 'get him'. Or accusing those who didn't like Phil of being elitist and snobby.

I have yet to read, not saying it doesn't happen, men accused of jealousy because they do not like Tom or Austin. I wonder why?

I've changed my opinion it seems from week to week and Rachel was not on my radar until a couple of weeks ago. I'm interested in what she looks like or how many GCSEs she has or where her hext speaking tour will be (or not if she does not have any GCSEs).

If Rachel continues dancing as she is now then I will vote for her and I hope she wins. Of course she could do a Cherie?