I addressed the question of whether Christine was still in the competition because of the support Matthew has earlier in the series. I was firmly shouted down and told it was the celeb that was getting voted for, not the pro.

Now we're getting closer to the final, other people's favourites have left, and I'm starting to wonder whether the 'pro vote' isn't playing a bigger part than other posters suggested.

It's not just the fact that after a mediocre cha-cha, Christine breezed through - it's the fact that Lisa was left struggling even after a lovely quickstep, and I'm wondering whether the notoriously unpopular Brendan is to blame.

So, people - will Matthew's following vote him in over Brendan? Will the Erin fans shout down the Camilla lovers? Or am I talking rubbish and it really is *all* about the celebrities?

Of course its also about the pros. They are the common detomenator for each series. You get to like/love/loathe them as you do with the judges. So I would want Erin or Camilla to win rather then Brendan or Vincent.

No matter how popular a pro dancer is it is the celeb that people vote for.

Brendan has become more popular this year and indeed he is no longer "the bad boy", but I think the votes for he and Lisa are because people like their partnership and the way she goes for it.

Lilya is a very popular pro dancer but was voted out with Don.

People are voting for Christine because they like her, not because of Matthew no matter how lovely he is (& he is).

I think you're absolutely right!

The adoration some of the pros get now surely means that people vote for the couple, not just the celebrity.

The amount of "we love Matthew" threads on here is surely testimony to this!

But they're getting fab scores and yet being left trailing in the public vote! Do people REALLY like the partnership - or are the majority still thinking 'ugh, Brendan, no way'? Or is it Lisa they object to?

For the tiny minority of fans or here that like the pros etc it probably has some form of bearing.

To the casual viewer I doubt they care about the pros. This can be seen this year with Darren and Lilia - both two very well known and liked pros (in fanatical circles) however both had very early exits this year.

I don't think it matters in the wider context as the celebrity will always be the one very much in the forefront and in the public eye.

I think there are votes for pros, but I believe they only make up a tiny proportion of the vote, but I do think that votes held back because of negative feelings towards the pro is more likely, but I'm not sure how significant it is though. I'm not entirely convinced it's enough to sway the positions, if the vote percentage leaks is true then we're talking 100,000 of votes to make a difference.

It's number and a couple of them are even about Matthew Cutler

In answer to the OP though I think this comes down to the judges marking. The public are not fools and if they see a contestant being undermarked and others overmarked they will adjust as they see fit. It's not just this but I believe Lisa is not benefitting from the judges treatment of her and others.

You don't know that.....for all we know people could be voting for Matthew as well,for one thing he has a lot of passionate (and i don't choose that word lightly) support on here totally in his own right.

I think as some of the pros have become more well known and some obv more popular than others, it must have some influence. The question is how much. E.g. I am liking Lisa and feel sorry that she keeps being in the dance off but I really find Brendan difficult to take. I did vote for them this week but that's the first time.

I think in the context of this forum a lot of people love the pro's but in the big wide world away from here most people do not even know who they are. I;d say the only pro's most people have heard of would be Brendan and Anton.

This forum is a very small drop in the ocean of 10+million viewers.

I think once viewers have been watching for a few years and for those pros who have been around for a while they develop followings: although Kristina and to some extent Brian have come in this year and it seems gained a lot of support too. Hayley I think would need to do another year or two to get that, with her having been eliminated with Mark so early etc.

That said I would think that the celeb the pros are paired with would still be a big factor each time. For example James this year I think gained a lot of fans for his partnership with Cherie (although maybe has lost some ground on that because of his outspoken-ness about John).

I don't think Brendan notoriously unpopular , quite the opposite .

Moonbaby is absolutely right , we may love a particular pro , the public do tend to vote more on the celebrity .

That said , innappropriate choreography does have an effect just as great routines do . To my mind , Kristina was a lot of the reason for John's success .
Equally I think Camilla's routines rarely do her celebrity justice or show them off and not her . Their QS this year was a wonderful change !

If Lilia can get past the early weeks she can take celebrities a long way , but NOT Dom !
Karen took Bill a very long way , but he had a huge fan base as well .

A great routine does not make up for lack of public interest , whatever may be the reason for that .

I love their partnership - they seem to be very well matched

At this stage I think it is as much about the partnership as it is about the pros as individuals. So the fact that Austin and Erin and Christine and Matthew have very good relationships probably helps their popularity (just as the amazing connection between Jodie and Ian did). Tom and Camilla and Rachel and Vincent also appear to have good partnerships, but their dancing is of a level that probably has less overall effect. Lisa and Brendan I'm personally not sure about. I know some people feel that Lisa is frightened of Brendan and the partnership doesn't sparkle for me. This, I think, more than Brendan's personal unpopularity is having an effect.

That being said, I do have one opinion about the pros that is all to do with their personality and record rather than the celeb they are currently paired with. I either want to see both Matthew and Brendan in the final, or neither at this stage. I think Brendan would be insufferable if he made it to the final ahead of Matthew. Matthew I think would be less cocky if the situation was reversed, but honestly I don't think at this stage I really want to find out. Far better at this point for Lisa and Christine to be knocked out in the next two weeks and leave three pros who have never won to battle it out. (And yes, I say that as a huge fan of Christine and Matthew's! )

I think a few of the pro's are much more well known in their own right than some people might think,it's not just the obvious ones like Brendan and Anton.

Matthew for one is extremely well known and thought very highly of in the dance world,he did the SCD tour this year ( and was a major part of it ) which played to hundreds of people practically every night for nearly 2 months.

He and Nicole do demo's up and down the country in the Summer a lot of weekend's to 100's of people at a time.

He was a very popular winner last year.

Look at the Team Cutler thread on here. ....people multi vote.

I just don't think anyone can say he isn't attracting votes from some people for himself and Christine.

I really like Lisa but Brendan puts me off

I think more casual viewers don't really vote for the pro. I'd bet that a lot don't really know them (other than maybe Anton and Brendan) and vote for the celebrity.

I doubt there's a huge amount of people voting for Christine because of Matthew etc. The partnership might get votes but the pro themselves I don't think does.

The pros need to be popular and capable of good choreography.

If they dip significantly in one or the other "discipline" then they do make it tougher for their partners.

Erin totally shot Colin in the foot with her choreography.
Brendan really makes a lot of people mad.

I think they can both overcome that. But it's difficult.

M Cutler is a golden boy and could go @rse over thingummy-whatsit and still get mass public adulation. On the other hand I don't think James would go very far if he had Alesha Halfpenny as a partner...

Surely if you watch the programme over a series, even if you aren't a forum poster, you develop some sort of opinion about the pro dancers? The idea of a viewer who is so empty-headed that they see the celebs as dancing round with some sort of faceless individual is a bit narrow, now i think about it.

I think the idea of the 'casual viewer' belittles the intelligence of the thousands who watch every week but just don't post on here. Perhaps they have better things to do - I know the idea's a little bizarre

Sorry one last point......i suppose you would get to the heart of the matter if say the people who are voting for Matt and Christine asked themselves if they would still vote for Christine if she was paired with eg,Brendan ?? (given Brendan might not be your No 1,2 or 3 pro)

If they wouldn't then they are defo voting for Matthew.....if they still would then they are probably voting for Christine.

My view is if you like a celeb you should vote for them whoever they are paired with........otherwise it's very unfair on te celeb.

*just using Brendan as an example,i know he has a lot of support*

I think Camilla is seriously hindering Tom's chances of winning by not gently encouraging him to stop pulling those ridiculous faces.

I think that in the early part of the comp the pros have little effect on who goes out.

However, as the series goes on, and couples emerge as a "unit" people vote more for the couple rather than just the Sleb.

This formula would seem to support the early exits of such excellent pros as Flavia, Lilia and Darren, and the growing support now for "Lisa and Brendan", "Austin and Erin" etc. etc.

To an extent it even supports the truly excellent partnership Kristina established with John.

Just my 2p.

JJ

and vice versa in that partnership

Of course people take the pros into account.

Blokes salivating over Ola and Kristina, for example.
Vinthenth and Flavia did nothing for me until Matt-gate.
Since then I have really been put off Flavia and, though sorry for Vinthenth, his ruddy lithp jutht driveth me crathy!!!!!!!!!

They are blinding dancers but I wouldn't vote for them - EVER.

I speak as a mad Matthew Cutler fan - much as I like him and want him to do well I'm not that keen on Christine so my vote has gone elsewhere to Austin who is my fave celeb but Erin definitely isn't near being one of my fave pros.

I think the partnership between the celeb and pro helps but I think its a small proportion of viewers who would vote purely for their fave pro.

As a negative vote, I think the pro might make a slight difference in the initial stages in forming opinions of the celeb. I freely admit to not liking Brendan and I don't think it's by coincedence that I've struggled to initially connect with his partners (Kelly and now Lisa). I actually quite like Lisa now but its too late in terms of my voting to switch favourites.