Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times? Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors. As it was it doesn't really matter as I think the final ranking was correct, but it could otherwise have made a difference as to who ends up in the dance off.
Dress Length in Ballroom
Originally Posted by Icarus17:
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times? Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors. As it was it doesn't really matter as I think the final ranking was correct, but it could otherwise have made a difference as to who ends up in the dance off.”
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times? Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors. As it was it doesn't really matter as I think the final ranking was correct, but it could otherwise have made a difference as to who ends up in the dance off.”
I jsut started that thread on beebs site! LOL
funnily a lot of people agree..
It could also make a difference in the dance off if Rachel is in that- if the judges are presuming for her and actully marking the other couple??
I agree it was a strange comment and if he brought it up then maybe he shouldn't have scored a 10.
I agree it was a strange comment and if he brought it up then maybe he shouldn't have scored a 10.
It wasn't just the length I think, but the style of the skirt which was quite stiff (net?) and didn't really show her leg movements. I prefer it when the dress is more fluid and slightly shorter.
It was the same with Rachels ballroom dress last week. You couldn't actually see her feet for much of the dance.
Originally Posted by alfie71:
“It was the same with Rachels ballroom dress last week. You couldn't actually see her feet for much of the dance.”
“It was the same with Rachels ballroom dress last week. You couldn't actually see her feet for much of the dance.”
Seems evevyone is scared to say it though!
I thought that as well....surely they are supposed to be able to see the footwork, not just guess it based on the rise and fall of the body ?
and yes if Len brought it up why did he then mark her so highly ?
and yes if Len brought it up why did he then mark her so highly ?
Originally Posted by Amethyzt:
“I thought that as well....surely they are supposed to be able to see the footwork, not just guess it based on the rise and fall of the body ?
and yes if Len brought it up why did he then mark her so highly ?”
“I thought that as well....surely they are supposed to be able to see the footwork, not just guess it based on the rise and fall of the body ?
and yes if Len brought it up why did he then mark her so highly ?”
Agree..the dresses are getting longer and longer...one does wonder why??????
Originally Posted by Icarus17:
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times?”
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times?”
I don't know for sure, but I did just read a document on dress regulations which had nothing to say about length.
Perhaps it is a case of the longer the dress is, the more likely the dancer might trip over it, and so in practice the feet tend to be visible.
Personally I thought that was a nice dress from the top down to the thighs but the bottom bit was awful. I can't imagine what they were thinking.
Quote:
“ Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors.”
“ Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors.”
I didn't have a problem with that myself, given Len's experience in performing, teaching and judging ballroom.
I said to my OH at the time - how can they judge her dance when they can't see her feet. All the other ladies ballroom dresses were ankle length which gave the judges a good view of their feet. It's two weeks on the trot that her dress has been so long we've been unable to see her footwork properly.
The judges should not be dolling out 10's on what they think they saw, they should make a point of saying that her dress needs to be shorter next week to enable them to see her footwork and should have given no more than a 9.
The judges should not be dolling out 10's on what they think they saw, they should make a point of saying that her dress needs to be shorter next week to enable them to see her footwork and should have given no more than a 9.
Originally Posted by Icarus17:
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times? Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors. As it was it doesn't really matter as I think the final ranking was correct, but it could otherwise have made a difference as to who ends up in the dance off.”
“Quick question for ballroom dancers with reference to Rachel's dress length in particular: in a strict competition, presumably there are rules governing the length of a lady's dress so that the judges can see her footwork at all times? Len made the remark today that he could hardly see Rachel's footwork owing to the length of her dress but would assume that it was perfect based upon her body position. That seemed to me to be an extremely strange thing to say, and potentially unfair on the other competitors. As it was it doesn't really matter as I think the final ranking was correct, but it could otherwise have made a difference as to who ends up in the dance off.”
There is no ruling about the length a ballroom dress should be, and it varies from year to year with fashion. My own dresses are slightly longer than "ballerina" length, as that is the style in which I feel most comfortable. Most ballroom dancers would not wear a dress longer than ankle length because it would be dangerous - when lowering to take a back step, it would be easy to step on the hem of the dress and fall.
Although as choreographers and not ballroom/Latin experts, Craig, Arlene and Bruno would not be able to judge footwork in a longer length dress, a judge of Len's experience can tell whether the footwork is correct by the balance, and as he said, the body position, of the dancer.
In the same way, a teacher who is actually dancing with a student, and therefore unable to see the feet, will still be able to tell if the footwork is right or wrong by the way the student moves.
[I should add, that juvenile dancers - i.e under 12s - are restricted in the length and style of dresses]
Originally Posted by Puffle:
“
The judges should not be dolling out 10's on what they think they saw, they should make a point of saying that her dress needs to be shorter next week to enable them to see her footwork and should have given no more than a 9.”
“
The judges should not be dolling out 10's on what they think they saw, they should make a point of saying that her dress needs to be shorter next week to enable them to see her footwork and should have given no more than a 9.”
I agree and as the viewers who are responsible for half the scoring should be allowed to see the feet to make a reasonable decision.
Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Although as choreographers and not ballroom/Latin experts, Craig, Arlene and Bruno would not be able to judge footwork in a longer length dress, a judge of Len's experience can tell whether the footwork is correct by the balance, and as he said, the body position, of the dancer.
In the same way, a teacher who is actually dancing with a student, and therefore unable to see the feet, will still be able to tell if the footwork is right or wrong by the way the student moves.”
“Although as choreographers and not ballroom/Latin experts, Craig, Arlene and Bruno would not be able to judge footwork in a longer length dress, a judge of Len's experience can tell whether the footwork is correct by the balance, and as he said, the body position, of the dancer.
In the same way, a teacher who is actually dancing with a student, and therefore unable to see the feet, will still be able to tell if the footwork is right or wrong by the way the student moves.”
Theoretically, I would agree. However Len is not infallible and the pros on ITT do sometimes pick up on things that he has missed. Also my teachers have still asked me to dance round the room on my own when they've wanted to concentrate on my footwork (and they have mirrors to help).
In any case, why make the job of the judges more difficult? The visibility of the feet removes all doubt.
Originally Posted by Vivacious Lady:
“Theoretically, I would agree. However Len is not infallible and the pros on ITT do sometimes pick up on things that he has missed. Also my teachers have still asked me to dance round the room on my own when they've wanted to concentrate on my footwork (and they have mirrors to help).
In any case, why make the job of the judges more difficult? The visibility of the feet removes all doubt.”
“Theoretically, I would agree. However Len is not infallible and the pros on ITT do sometimes pick up on things that he has missed. Also my teachers have still asked me to dance round the room on my own when they've wanted to concentrate on my footwork (and they have mirrors to help).
In any case, why make the job of the judges more difficult? The visibility of the feet removes all doubt.”
I would agree if all the judges were bb/Latin pros, but I doubt Arlene & co would really know the correct footwork for all the steps anyway. But as for the viewers - yes you have a point. To be honest, I thought Rachel's dress was horrible - the top was ok, but the skirt ...... yuk!!!!
Originally Posted by Paace:
“I agree and as the viewers who are responsible for half the scoring should be allowed to see the feet to make a reasonable decision.”
“I agree and as the viewers who are responsible for half the scoring should be allowed to see the feet to make a reasonable decision.”
I agree with you, but unfortunately we're stuck with the rubbish camera work of the BBC who seem to think we'd much rather see a swirly 'let's make the viewer feel sea sick' shot of them than the whole dance feet and all!
Thanks all. I do take the point about an experienced judge being able to make an educated guess on the footwork based upon the lady's balance and positioning etc., but it's surely no more than that (in this case he is essentially making the assumption that the correct heel lead is taking her into the correct rise and fall - I paid attention to Len's master class on ITT 
), and, in this case, places the male celebrities at a disadvantage. And it's not infallible: to use a sporting example, in cricket, if a batsman hits a ball perfectly, it's likely that his footwork was excellent, but not inevitable, as anyone who ever watched David Gower bat will tell you.
), and, in this case, places the male celebrities at a disadvantage. And it's not infallible: to use a sporting example, in cricket, if a batsman hits a ball perfectly, it's likely that his footwork was excellent, but not inevitable, as anyone who ever watched David Gower bat will tell you.
