I think only Jill had the technique and presentation that would mean she could turn pro over all six series so far. However, she failed to knock my socks off in the way Alesha did. That opening sequence of the Cha Cha didn't have much in the way of Cha Cha steps in it, and she made a mistake in the original. However, I'd rather watch Alesha and Austin than Jill. Its a programme about learning to dance; about getting enough technique (to please the judges) in the short time available, and to wow the public. So, if a dance is more about entertainment than about dance technique its still a winning dance. Austin embodied the spirit of the paso doble far better than any other paso in the six series. Its all about the bullfighter and aggression and showing off, and he did that brilliantly. There were a few slightly dodgy steps in it, but those went virtually unnoticed.
The requirements of the paso...
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Originally Posted by mr.bojangles:
“Here is Paso proper!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aGeq1aA9ON0
Now I'd never expect a celeb to dance like this, before someone jumps on my back. Of course not!
But you can get a flavour for the dance and the range of steps that are danced, which Austin didn't really do that many of. The other big difference for me is that dancers show the authority and power through their movement, and not just through posing, posturing and shouting. Now I don't want to say that's all Austin did, but compare with Jill and Jill with these, and you can clearly see how she actually danced this properly.”
“Here is Paso proper!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aGeq1aA9ON0
Now I'd never expect a celeb to dance like this, before someone jumps on my back. Of course not!
But you can get a flavour for the dance and the range of steps that are danced, which Austin didn't really do that many of. The other big difference for me is that dancers show the authority and power through their movement, and not just through posing, posturing and shouting. Now I don't want to say that's all Austin did, but compare with Jill and Jill with these, and you can clearly see how she actually danced this properly.”
I was coming back to say this but you stated it much more eloquently
To be honest, his paso struck me as 90 seconds of "Appel! Strike a pose! Shout! Glare! Appel! Do a few steps! Turn! Strike a pose! Shout! Glare! Shout! Pose! Appel! Point!"
Entertaining but dull with little content
We might as well have been giving John 9s for being funny.As for Rachel - It's been stated that Len at least can tell if someone's footwork is correct by the influence it has on their body position, so that is dubious but much more forgivable than 10s for Austin's dance. 8s or 9s would have been fair.
Originally Posted by peely:
“Austin embodied the spirit of the paso doble far better than any other paso in the six series. Its all about the bullfighter and aggression and showing off, and he did that brilliantly. There were a few slightly dodgy steps in it, but those went virtually unnoticed.”
“Austin embodied the spirit of the paso doble far better than any other paso in the six series. Its all about the bullfighter and aggression and showing off, and he did that brilliantly. There were a few slightly dodgy steps in it, but those went virtually unnoticed.”
Considering the spirit of the rumba is essentially sex (or at least the enticement), this way of thinking could lead us to very dodgy ground indeed!
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“Not to flame Gethin or provoke his fans, but he got one of the highest (if not the highest) Paso score last year, so this is the closest I can get to comparing apple-to-apple.
Ironically, all the judges gave Gethin an eight, saved Len who awarded him a ten (!!!).
Gethin used the prop that Len so detested this year and Len said NOTHING about it.
Here's the link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KMCwMw0APSI
Now, which Paso is better? Why did Len award Gethin ten while the other judges awarded him only eight? Again, ironically, all the other three judges didn't like Gethin's 'techniques'.
Discuss.”
“Not to flame Gethin or provoke his fans, but he got one of the highest (if not the highest) Paso score last year, so this is the closest I can get to comparing apple-to-apple.
Ironically, all the judges gave Gethin an eight, saved Len who awarded him a ten (!!!).
Gethin used the prop that Len so detested this year and Len said NOTHING about it.
Here's the link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KMCwMw0APSI
Now, which Paso is better?
Why did Len award Gethin ten while the other judges awarded him only eight? Again, ironically, all the other three judges didn't like Gethin's 'techniques'.Discuss.
”
Oh dear, I can't discuss because I don't have the dance knowledge but I have to say I cannot understand why Len would score this 10 as opposed to Austin's 8. It certainly had nothing like the performance or spirit of Austin's dance and to my eyes it didn't have the content either. In many places it looked very clumsy.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“So you keep saying but you still haven't told me what wasn't there! Mr Bojangles at least, gave me some idea of what he meant.
And I thought the woman could be the cape or the bull. Or is it the man could be the bull or the bullfighter. See, told you I knew nothing!”
“So you keep saying but you still haven't told me what wasn't there! Mr Bojangles at least, gave me some idea of what he meant.
And I thought the woman could be the cape or the bull. Or is it the man could be the bull or the bullfighter. See, told you I knew nothing!
”
It difficult to explain if you don't know the dance but the basic steps of the dance were missing the best I can do is post a link to a basic bronze routine (ie beginner level) and I would expect some of those moves in the routine I think all they did was Flamenco taps I dont think they did an Apel or Promenade Chassis at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8E1...eature=related
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“It difficult to explain if you don't know the dance but the basic steps of the dance were missing the best I can do is post a link to a basic bronze routine (ie beginner level) and I would expect some of those moves in the routine I think all they did was Flamenco taps I dont think they did an Apel or Promenade Chassis at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8E1...eature=related”
“It difficult to explain if you don't know the dance but the basic steps of the dance were missing the best I can do is post a link to a basic bronze routine (ie beginner level) and I would expect some of those moves in the routine I think all they did was Flamenco taps I dont think they did an Apel or Promenade Chassis at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8E1...eature=related”
Oh, that's Kristina's boyfriend, Corky Ballas presenting!
Bendymixer:
Just out of curiosity, must one do all the 'basic' Bronze level steps before one attempts the Silver level or Gold level steps?
I ask because Austin clearly did at least one Silver level step and two Gold level step. Some may question his Flemenco taps. But goodness! He did that in 4 days of training with a man-flu!
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“It difficult to explain if you don't know the dance but the basic steps of the dance were missing the best I can do is post a link to a basic bronze routine (ie beginner level) and I would expect some of those moves in the routine I think all they did was Flamenco taps I dont think they did an Apel or Promenade Chassis at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8E1...eature=related”
“It difficult to explain if you don't know the dance but the basic steps of the dance were missing the best I can do is post a link to a basic bronze routine (ie beginner level) and I would expect some of those moves in the routine I think all they did was Flamenco taps I dont think they did an Apel or Promenade Chassis at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8E1...eature=related”
but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“Paso as a dance didnt exisit, whereas the samba and rumba did and was danced already before Piere laid down a technique for them so no would not call them French. As the Paso Doble is taken from the French Paso Redoble and all the steps in it are in French then I class it as a French dance”
“Paso as a dance didnt exisit, whereas the samba and rumba did and was danced already before Piere laid down a technique for them so no would not call them French. As the Paso Doble is taken from the French Paso Redoble and all the steps in it are in French then I class it as a French dance”
Taken from another thread
`Paso Doble
Paso Doble is a representation of a 'Bullfight', where traditionally the male dancer takes on the role of the Matador (the bullfighter) and the partner takes on the role of his cape.
Synonymous with Spanish culture, the Paso Doble is a traditional folk dance, that is more commonly performed as a competition or exhibition dance, rather than a social dance.
The name 'Paso Doble' in Spanish means 'two step'. The 'two step' refers to the marching nature of the steps, and the dance is recognisable by its dramatic poses that usually mirror highlights in the music.`
So is it french or spanish ?
Originally Posted by kittles:
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels”
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels
”
But there were attempts at DIFFICULT (silver and gold level) steps, such as twist turns (which he did really well), Flemenco taps and Spanish lines. The last two are gold level steps and it's amazing a beginner achieved that level of performance in four days.
Also, that 'Paso Jump' (don't know the technical name) in the beginning.
So it's clear is NOT *just* Apels. If so, that would look SILLY.
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“But there were attempts at DIFFICULT (silver and gold level) steps, such as twist turns (which he did really well), Flemenco taps and Spanish lines. The last two are gold level steps and it's amazing a beginner achieved that level of performance in four days.
Also, that 'Paso Jump' (don't know the technical name) in the beginning.
So it's clear is NOT *just* Apels. If so, that would look SILLY.”
“But there were attempts at DIFFICULT (silver and gold level) steps, such as twist turns (which he did really well), Flemenco taps and Spanish lines. The last two are gold level steps and it's amazing a beginner achieved that level of performance in four days.
Also, that 'Paso Jump' (don't know the technical name) in the beginning.
So it's clear is NOT *just* Apels. If so, that would look SILLY.
”
I know me dear
I was just making the point that one poster criticised it for having no Apels and another for having too many leaving those of us who are lot less technically aware somewhat confused!
Originally Posted by kittles:
“I know me dear
I was just making the point that one poster criticised it for having no Apels and another for having too many leaving those of us who are lot less technically aware somewhat confused!”
“I know me dear
I was just making the point that one poster criticised it for having no Apels and another for having too many leaving those of us who are lot less technically aware somewhat confused!”
Oh the irony! Even a non-dancer like me could see an Apel when there is one. Don't understand how people can say there is NO Apels.
Originally Posted by diddygirl:
“could not give a flying toss whether is was 'paso enough', that dance rocked!!!”
“could not give a flying toss whether is was 'paso enough', that dance rocked!!!”
Well said DG! If I remember right Tess said it was the best score ever for a paso on SCD.
Originally Posted by kittles:
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels”
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels
”
oops typo didnt realise I had typed Apel I meant Ecart the most basics of steps
The Paso Doble as danced in Latin is based on the dance devised by Pierre Lavelle and as such is French
Originally Posted by Seymour:
“Well said DG! If I remember right Tess said it was the best score ever for a paso on SCD.”
“Well said DG! If I remember right Tess said it was the best score ever for a paso on SCD.”
Yes but what a great pity the highest marked Paso on SCD contained no Paso and was show dance to Paso music
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“Oh the irony! Even a non-dancer like me could see an Apel when there is one. Don't understand how people can say there is NO Apels.”
“Oh the irony! Even a non-dancer like me could see an Apel when there is one. Don't understand how people can say there is NO Apels.
”
I will leave you none dancers to it
Why are we comparing Austin's paso to a professional paso? He had one week in which to learn a paso and a foxtrot. He did a pretty damn good job as far as I'm concerned.
And why is his paso being compared to that of Jill Halfpenny? Yes, she was good but come on - let it drop!! I'm sick to death of every dancer being compared to Jill Halfpenny
And why is his paso being compared to that of Jill Halfpenny? Yes, she was good but come on - let it drop!! I'm sick to death of every dancer being compared to Jill Halfpenny
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“oops typo didnt realise I had typed Apel I meant Ecart the most basics of steps
The Paso Doble as danced in Latin is based on the dance devised by Pierre Lavelle and as such is French”
“oops typo didnt realise I had typed Apel I meant Ecart the most basics of steps
The Paso Doble as danced in Latin is based on the dance devised by Pierre Lavelle and as such is French”
Not to be pedantic, Ecart (fallaway whisk) is a silver level step. I thought the Bronze level steps are considered 'basic'?
Originally Posted by SCD-Observer:
“Not to be pedantic, Ecart (fallaway whisk) is a silver level step. I thought the Bronze level steps are considered 'basic'?”
“Not to be pedantic, Ecart (fallaway whisk) is a silver level step. I thought the Bronze level steps are considered 'basic'?”
And if they are considered "basic" surely they should form the core of the dance?
Don't know why but the whole way through I kept waiting for Austin & Erin to dance rather than pose.
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“Yes but what a great pity the highest marked Paso on SCD contained no Paso and was show dance to Paso music”
“Yes but what a great pity the highest marked Paso on SCD contained no Paso and was show dance to Paso music”
I guess three of the judges must have given perfect 10's for the paso music
Originally Posted by kittles:
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels”
“but Psychosis critique above pretty said much there was nothing but Apels
”
There were appels, but I was indulging in a spot of hyperbole to describe it
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“And if they are considered "basic" surely they should form the core of the dance?
Don't know why but the whole way through I kept waiting for Austin & Erin to dance rather than pose.”
“And if they are considered "basic" surely they should form the core of the dance?
Don't know why but the whole way through I kept waiting for Austin & Erin to dance rather than pose.”
Oh it's you again.
You don't seem to like Austin and Erin from very early on already, if I recall correctly?
Yes yes yes it was all very dramatic and captured the feeling of the dance, but even I could see it was lacking in content - and, no, I can't describe what steps should have been there but I can notice a lack of dance steps - ie the posturing where steps would otherwise be. I thought that it was the judges job to judge according to the technical content and the performance and we could judge according to how much we enjoyed it, so that it shouldn't matter to us if it was all performance, but it should matter to the judges. Anyway, the judging as a whole was inconsistent last night. And, by the way, I did find it thrilling to watch, I can just see the point others are making.
Originally Posted by cabbage soup:
“Yes yes yes it was all very dramatic and captured the feeling of the dance, but even I could see it was lacking in content - and, no, I can't describe what steps should have been there but I can notice a lack of dance steps - ie the posturing where steps would otherwise be. I thought that it was the judges job to judge according to the technical content and the performance and we could judge according to how much we enjoyed it, so that it shouldn't matter to us if it was all performance, but it should matter to the judges. Anyway, the judging as a whole was inconsistent last night. And, by the way, I did find it thrilling to watch, I can just see the point others are making.”
“Yes yes yes it was all very dramatic and captured the feeling of the dance, but even I could see it was lacking in content - and, no, I can't describe what steps should have been there but I can notice a lack of dance steps - ie the posturing where steps would otherwise be. I thought that it was the judges job to judge according to the technical content and the performance and we could judge according to how much we enjoyed it, so that it shouldn't matter to us if it was all performance, but it should matter to the judges. Anyway, the judging as a whole was inconsistent last night. And, by the way, I did find it thrilling to watch, I can just see the point others are making.”
Craig, Bruno and Arlene have never judged on the technical content of a dance, they have always judged on performance.
As far as I know, none of the three have ballroom experience, they are all choreographers or stage performers, it's Len that judges on techical content usually, although now I'm as he gave Tom a 10 (I'm not moaning, he deserved one) when everyone said that the waltz wasn't brilliant.
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