I'm sure they all do their best.
They all deserve it.
I just like Erin and Camilla better than Brendan and Vinthenth.
They all deserve it.
I just like Erin and Camilla better than Brendan and Vinthenth.
Which pro 'deserves' to win?
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I just don't think Erin's as good an all rounder as vincent, for example. I don't particularly enjoy her latins, although her ballroom is gorgeous
Originally Posted by arddunol:
“I think Camilla's choreogrpahy leaves a lot to be desired .
Only this series has she played to her partner's strengths and then only in a couple of dances and she is not helping Tom to create masculine Latin dances.
However , I still think Tom will win despite her .”
“I think Camilla's choreogrpahy leaves a lot to be desired .
Only this series has she played to her partner's strengths and then only in a couple of dances and she is not helping Tom to create masculine Latin dances.
However , I still think Tom will win despite her .”
I agree with this - it has been lovely to see her produce some routines which have played more to Tom's strengths than her own, but I still think she has let him down in some areas. I suspect he will win though, he seems to have strong popularity and is undeniably a talented dancer. I just think that Camilla sometimes gets in his way rather than letting him shine, and it's something I have often thought about her with her celeb partners. Lilia, by contrast, often manages to get quite astonishing results with partners who, on their first few outings, looked to have very little potential at all.
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“I do see Darren as the stronger partner, my point is that they were actually fairly similar in build, in strength at ballroom and in weakness at latin. I don't think you can explain the difference in scores and placing just in terms of saying Darren was naturally a better dancer- part of it has to be about the pro. For me his success was at least partly because Lilia worked far more effectively at choreographing dances, especially on the latin side, that helped Darren score as well as he did despite being no better than James at latin to begin with.
(I don't agree with you about him having a larger following at all though; maybe in general, but in the SCD audience I suspect far more had heard of James than of Darren. In fact James' fanbase was tested quite a few times towards the end and it was that, rather than his dancing, that kept him in. Undeniably though Darren did gain a lot of popularity as the show progressed.)”
“I do see Darren as the stronger partner, my point is that they were actually fairly similar in build, in strength at ballroom and in weakness at latin. I don't think you can explain the difference in scores and placing just in terms of saying Darren was naturally a better dancer- part of it has to be about the pro. For me his success was at least partly because Lilia worked far more effectively at choreographing dances, especially on the latin side, that helped Darren score as well as he did despite being no better than James at latin to begin with.
(I don't agree with you about him having a larger following at all though; maybe in general, but in the SCD audience I suspect far more had heard of James than of Darren. In fact James' fanbase was tested quite a few times towards the end and it was that, rather than his dancing, that kept him in. Undeniably though Darren did gain a lot of popularity as the show progressed.)”
^ agree with both your points.
I have to say I think Erin and Anton , superb ballroom dancers as tehy are , have the same skill level in Latin as some of the Latin specialists have in ballroom .
This often shows in their choreography of Latin numbers .
This often shows in their choreography of Latin numbers .
Originally Posted by ormster:
“Erin Boag, she deserves it more than any other. Austin is only her second decent partner after Colin over all 6 series which proves how amazing she is with what she has had to work with.
Camilla, why does she deserve it? she has had plenty of decent partners, James Martin, Ray Feron, Gethin Jones and Tom Chambers. She just doesnt excite me, would be nice for her to make the final but winning it, NO. ”
“Erin Boag, she deserves it more than any other. Austin is only her second decent partner after Colin over all 6 series which proves how amazing she is with what she has had to work with.
Camilla, why does she deserve it? she has had plenty of decent partners, James Martin, Ray Feron, Gethin Jones and Tom Chambers. She just doesnt excite me, would be nice for her to make the final but winning it, NO. ”
Colin isn't Erin's only partner with potential - she could have got Peter Schmeichel further but didn't. Same for Martin Offiah. I think both these had as much potential as James Martin. Erin got lucky with Julian as those were the days when duff dancers weren't pushed out by the judges.
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“I do see Darren as the stronger partner, my point is that they were actually fairly similar in build, in strength at ballroom and in weakness at latin.”
“I do see Darren as the stronger partner, my point is that they were actually fairly similar in build, in strength at ballroom and in weakness at latin.”
They may have been similar in size, but James, too put it crudely, consisted of far more fat, and was far more unfit to start of with than Gough. This gave Gough an advantage. I think Gough won because he had more of a lad image to start off with (big, burly sports bloke), who ended up loving to dance. It was his story that won him his title in the end. Lilia probably had a lot to do with inspiring into him this love of dance, so I'll give her credit for that.
I think, unluckily for Erin and Anton, shortcomings in ballroom technique are far less obvious the overage Joe Bloggs watching at home. So I suspect the Latin specialists probably get away with lack of expertise in ballroom much more easily.
I find it hard to see Schmeichel getting any further than he did - Erin did well to get him that far, he arguably "should" have been out much earlier IMO.. And Martin Offiah she got to fourth place.
I find it hard to see Schmeichel getting any further than he did - Erin did well to get him that far, he arguably "should" have been out much earlier IMO.. And Martin Offiah she got to fourth place.
Originally Posted by Shappy:
“They may have been similar in size, but James, too put it crudely, consisted of far more fat, and was far more unfit to start of with than Gough. This gave Gough an advantage. I think Gough won because he had more of a lad image to start off with (big, burly sports bloke), who ended up loving to dance. It was his story that won him his title in the end. Lilia probably had a lot to do with inspiring into him this love of dance, so I'll give her credit for that.”
“They may have been similar in size, but James, too put it crudely, consisted of far more fat, and was far more unfit to start of with than Gough. This gave Gough an advantage. I think Gough won because he had more of a lad image to start off with (big, burly sports bloke), who ended up loving to dance. It was his story that won him his title in the end. Lilia probably had a lot to do with inspiring into him this love of dance, so I'll give her credit for that.”
Goughie was a bit podgy when he started, but yes presumably he would have been fitter. I also agree his story won it for him, but part of the story was that he turned out to be a pretty good dancer!
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
Erin all the way!! I think she's proved by now she can choreograph well and she really does get the best out of her partners as well as coming across as a lovely person.
This is a philosophical question and requires a philosophical (sort of) answer:
Everyone and no-one.
All the pros have worked hard and tried to cater to their celebs' abilities. Don't understand why Erin shouldn't deserve it because 'she blew it with Colin'? One of the most bizarre thing I have read for a long time!
Everyone and no-one.
All the pros have worked hard and tried to cater to their celebs' abilities. Don't understand why Erin shouldn't deserve it because 'she blew it with Colin'? One of the most bizarre thing I have read for a long time!
For me - and I am SO surprised I have reached this conclusion
Vincent who really has produced some stunning performances despite his rather character free partners in more than one series
OR
Erin who is just so consistent in all she does and (apart from her big mistake with Colin Jackson and the puppet dance) has since been gifted some 'unusual' partners and she deserves to have Austin win for her this year.
BUT NOT
Camilla - no sorry never quite got her but would have like Tom to be a winner.
Brendan well he has won it before, deservedly, but would like a different pro to win......... & is it too late for me to warm to Lisa ... am nearly there but.................
Vincent who really has produced some stunning performances despite his rather character free partners in more than one series
OR
Erin who is just so consistent in all she does and (apart from her big mistake with Colin Jackson and the puppet dance) has since been gifted some 'unusual' partners and she deserves to have Austin win for her this year.
BUT NOT
Camilla - no sorry never quite got her but would have like Tom to be a winner.
Brendan well he has won it before, deservedly, but would like a different pro to win......... & is it too late for me to warm to Lisa ... am nearly there but.................
Erin, the girl hasn't put a foot wrong this year and she and Austin have the most charisma and connection by far.
I don't think any professional deserves to win - in the same way that I don't think any professional doesn't deserve to win because of perceived missed chances/mess ups etc.
However, I do find it more entertaining when professional dancers who haven't been in the final get there as their styles/choreographies/personalities are so different, it's nice to get to see new ones every year. I was tiring slightly of Lilia and Ian being in the final every year in the early stages, whereas it's been nice to see Karen and Flavia and Matt (Cutler not Brat) get there in more recent years.
However, if an "old" professional like Brendan or Lilia were to get a very talented and entertaining partner, then I would have no problem with them winning again.
However, I do find it more entertaining when professional dancers who haven't been in the final get there as their styles/choreographies/personalities are so different, it's nice to get to see new ones every year. I was tiring slightly of Lilia and Ian being in the final every year in the early stages, whereas it's been nice to see Karen and Flavia and Matt (Cutler not Brat) get there in more recent years.
However, if an "old" professional like Brendan or Lilia were to get a very talented and entertaining partner, then I would have no problem with them winning again.
I'm not convinced about the notion that Camilla hasn't played to her partners strengths on the grounds that David Dickinson and Roger Black never had ANY strengths whatsoever James Martin was a good ballroom dancer and Camilla actually choreographed a nice QS, VW, Waltz and Foxtrot that seemed to me to suit him very well. Worth mentioning as well is the Tango and Paso she did with James, which certainly made him look a better latin dancer than he actually was.
With Ray Fearon she showed him off with a good opening Chacha and also did a very good VW as I recall. Even I couldn't watch that guy for long though...
Next up was Gethin for whom Camilla did some wonderful ballroom routines and managed to prize him out of his shell enough to do some very passable latin too
So far this year Camilla has been praised twice by the tightwad of praise himself, CRH for showing Tom off so well....
Can she really be all that bad at her job?
James Martin was a good ballroom dancer and Camilla actually choreographed a nice QS, VW, Waltz and Foxtrot that seemed to me to suit him very well. Worth mentioning as well is the Tango and Paso she did with James, which certainly made him look a better latin dancer than he actually was.With Ray Fearon she showed him off with a good opening Chacha and also did a very good VW as I recall. Even I couldn't watch that guy for long though...
Next up was Gethin for whom Camilla did some wonderful ballroom routines and managed to prize him out of his shell enough to do some very passable latin too
So far this year Camilla has been praised twice by the tightwad of praise himself, CRH for showing Tom off so well....
Can she really be all that bad at her job?
Originally Posted by SideshowStu:
“I'm not convinced about the notion that Camilla hasn't played to her partners strengths on the grounds that David Dickinson and Roger Black never had ANY strengths whatsoever James Martin was a good ballroom dancer and Camilla actually choreographed a nice QS, VW, Waltz and Foxtrot that seemed to me to suit him very well. Worth mentioning as well is the Tango and Paso she did with James, which certainly made him look a better latin dancer than he actually was.
With Ray Fearon she showed him off with a good opening Chacha and also did a very good VW as I recall. Even I couldn't watch that guy for long though...
Next up was Gethin for whom Camilla did some wonderful ballroom routines and managed to prize him out of his shell enough to do some very passable latin too
So far this year Camilla has been praised twice by the tightwad of praise himself, CRH for showing Tom off so well....
Can she really be all that bad at her job?”
“I'm not convinced about the notion that Camilla hasn't played to her partners strengths on the grounds that David Dickinson and Roger Black never had ANY strengths whatsoever
James Martin was a good ballroom dancer and Camilla actually choreographed a nice QS, VW, Waltz and Foxtrot that seemed to me to suit him very well. Worth mentioning as well is the Tango and Paso she did with James, which certainly made him look a better latin dancer than he actually was.With Ray Fearon she showed him off with a good opening Chacha and also did a very good VW as I recall. Even I couldn't watch that guy for long though...
Next up was Gethin for whom Camilla did some wonderful ballroom routines and managed to prize him out of his shell enough to do some very passable latin too
So far this year Camilla has been praised twice by the tightwad of praise himself, CRH for showing Tom off so well....
Can she really be all that bad at her job?
”
She has also done MORE routines then any other pro and never reached the final. She deserves it for hard work alone!
Brendan has been the best the series. His coregraphy has been praised for every dance, I want Lisa to win but camilla did really well last year and just missed out so after Brendan I want her to win
[quote=SideshowStu;29168727]I have to admit that the old mantra that Camilla has had loads of good partners totally baffles me. David Dickinson was crap, as was Roger Black, as was James Martin in the latin, Ray Fearon was so so and hard to take a liking to and finally along came Gethin, who was ridiculously shy and cursed with wooden hips at the start, but was transformed into a very elegant ballroom dancer and a better latin dancer than anyone expected by the end. On a more fatuous level, I'd say that among them only Gethin could realistically be described as a 'looker', but as a hetero male I accept that my view may be different to the majority of SCD viewers
QUOTE]
Obviously you never know until someone steps onto the dance floor whether they will be any good or not and/or whether they will be popular but there are usually some things that are pointers
1. being under 40 - Camilla has had 1 partner over 40. Everyone else has taken more than one turn with an oldie but Camilla had David Dickinson and since then it's been a procession of young(ish) blokes
2. being fit - roger black an athelete likely to be able to train for long periods of time, gethin and tom clearly keep themselves in shape as I think did ray fearon. James martin was the only one who at the time was a tad lardy
3. being attractive - roger black, ray fearon, gethin jones, tom chambers - not exactly been battered by the ugly stick have they
now none of the above means they can dance but it's sure as hell better than getting for example
Dom littlewood and then don warrington
or jimmy tarbuck and phil daniels
or brian capron and gary rhodes
none of whom will be seeing 45 again and in most cases 50 again
QUOTE]
Obviously you never know until someone steps onto the dance floor whether they will be any good or not and/or whether they will be popular but there are usually some things that are pointers
1. being under 40 - Camilla has had 1 partner over 40. Everyone else has taken more than one turn with an oldie but Camilla had David Dickinson and since then it's been a procession of young(ish) blokes
2. being fit - roger black an athelete likely to be able to train for long periods of time, gethin and tom clearly keep themselves in shape as I think did ray fearon. James martin was the only one who at the time was a tad lardy
3. being attractive - roger black, ray fearon, gethin jones, tom chambers - not exactly been battered by the ugly stick have they
now none of the above means they can dance but it's sure as hell better than getting for example
Dom littlewood and then don warrington
or jimmy tarbuck and phil daniels
or brian capron and gary rhodes
none of whom will be seeing 45 again and in most cases 50 again
[quote=kittles;29176638]
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.
Originally Posted by SideshowStu:
“I have to admit that the old mantra that Camilla has had loads of good partners totally baffles me. David Dickinson was crap, as was Roger Black, as was James Martin in the latin, Ray Fearon was so so and hard to take a liking to and finally along came Gethin, who was ridiculously shy and cursed with wooden hips at the start, but was transformed into a very elegant ballroom dancer and a better latin dancer than anyone expected by the end. On a more fatuous level, I'd say that among them only Gethin could realistically be described as a 'looker', but as a hetero male I accept that my view may be different to the majority of SCD viewers
QUOTE]
Obviously you never know until someone steps onto the dance floor whether they will be any good or not and/or whether they will be popular but there are usually some things that are pointers
1. being under 40 - Camilla has had 1 partner over 40. Everyone else has taken more than one turn with an oldie but Camilla had David Dickinson and since then it's been a procession of young(ish) blokes
2. being fit - roger black an athelete likely to be able to train for long periods of time, gethin and tom clearly keep themselves in shape as I think did ray fearon. James martin was the only one who at the time was a tad lardy
3. being attractive - roger black, ray fearon, gethin jones, tom chambers - not exactly been battered by the ugly stick have they
now none of the above means they can dance but it's sure as hell better than getting for example
Dom littlewood and then don warrington
or jimmy tarbuck and phil daniels
or brian capron and gary rhodes
none of whom will be seeing 45 again and in most cases 50 again”
“I have to admit that the old mantra that Camilla has had loads of good partners totally baffles me. David Dickinson was crap, as was Roger Black, as was James Martin in the latin, Ray Fearon was so so and hard to take a liking to and finally along came Gethin, who was ridiculously shy and cursed with wooden hips at the start, but was transformed into a very elegant ballroom dancer and a better latin dancer than anyone expected by the end. On a more fatuous level, I'd say that among them only Gethin could realistically be described as a 'looker', but as a hetero male I accept that my view may be different to the majority of SCD viewers
QUOTE]
Obviously you never know until someone steps onto the dance floor whether they will be any good or not and/or whether they will be popular but there are usually some things that are pointers
1. being under 40 - Camilla has had 1 partner over 40. Everyone else has taken more than one turn with an oldie but Camilla had David Dickinson and since then it's been a procession of young(ish) blokes
2. being fit - roger black an athelete likely to be able to train for long periods of time, gethin and tom clearly keep themselves in shape as I think did ray fearon. James martin was the only one who at the time was a tad lardy
3. being attractive - roger black, ray fearon, gethin jones, tom chambers - not exactly been battered by the ugly stick have they
now none of the above means they can dance but it's sure as hell better than getting for example
Dom littlewood and then don warrington
or jimmy tarbuck and phil daniels
or brian capron and gary rhodes
none of whom will be seeing 45 again and in most cases 50 again”
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.
[quote=The_abbott;29176709]
Dominic Littlewood still gets on my nerves - he always comes across as negative when interviewed backstage at SCD. Admittedly this may well be the editing, but I don't recall him saying anything nice about anyone when he goes to watch the live shows.
Originally Posted by kittles:
“
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.”
“
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.”
Dominic Littlewood still gets on my nerves - he always comes across as negative when interviewed backstage at SCD. Admittedly this may well be the editing, but I don't recall him saying anything nice about anyone when he goes to watch the live shows.
Originally Posted by The_abbott:
“
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.”
“
I think gary could have done better if not with Karen. Same with Brian.
I also think Dom was universally disliked because of his attitude. Had he been nicer he would have stayed in longer.”
That sort of overlooks the point that all three of them had two left feet!
Originally Posted by katie_p:
“ That sort of overlooks the point that all three of them had two left feet!”
“
That sort of overlooks the point that all three of them had two left feet!”
so did Roger, David and James!
Originally Posted by The_abbott:
“so did Roger, David and James!”
“so did Roger, David and James!”
I'll give you David, but not the other two. Gary in particular was beyond rubbish- no comparison to David and James. Brian had no idea what he was doing, and Dom couldn't hear the beat to the music. Roger and James weren't contenders for the title the way things stood, but they were still in a completely different league from the celebs kittles mentioned.
Based on the pro I'd like Erin to win.
Out of all of them I want Ian to win. And Lilia to be the first to win twice
Out of all of them I want Ian to win. And Lilia to be the first to win twice
out of all of them for me it is Ian Waite who deserves to win it I wish the BBC would stop partnering him with 6ft plus partners - I hope he gets a decent one next year
Out of the 4 left would like to see Brendan win it because I have really enjoyed his choreography this year
Out of the 4 left would like to see Brendan win it because I have really enjoyed his choreography this year
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