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The I-Phone Killer has arrived
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flagpole
08-12-2008
there's half a story about another new nokia touch screen

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12...hscreen_nokia/

based on some leaked images.
tdenson
08-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“I am aware of those apps, but just because they can do some small gimmicky desktop apps does not equate to being able to put together a whole OS for a phone. Most are just apps knocked together by some guys at Google with some of their free time they get, few actually come to fruition, not all integrate with existing Google services and with the credit crisis Google will be looking to cut costs. Also, let's be honest, a lot of the software Google churns out is not that great, especially Google toolbar. I am very strongly against toolbars...and what exactly is the point in them? All browsers now have search built in at the top and all come with pop-up blockers. Companies like AOL and Yahoo have also released software, but it is the worst most bloated software you could possibly use. I admit that Google software is generally better, but on par with Apple and Microsoft? They have a long way to go. Apple and Microsoft have been designing software and UI for decades, Google just started a few years ago.”

You seem to have a real downer on Google the company for some reason. (In my opinion) Google write some of the best software around, I happen to like their nice clean simple approach to UI.
To answer some of the points you make -

Yes, Google haven't been around long, but so what ? IBM have been around 50 years plus, but I don't particularly rate their approach to s/w development.

Google are laying people off, but then so are Apple

Their stock price - which tech company's stock price has not halved in the last 12 months, certainly Apple's has (I know that from bitter experience as a shareholder)
maccy
08-12-2008
One big problem - it's Symbian. Think extremely slow, and prone to crashing.

Getting rid of my N95 for the iPhone 3G was the best thing I ever did.
BT@home
08-12-2008
Originally Posted by flagpole:
“there's half a story about another new nokia touch screen

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12...hscreen_nokia/

based on some leaked images.”

A typical register article. That pic is part of a PDF from a presentation that Nokia CEO did a week ago. Hardly a leak when you can get the full presentation from here: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...sentations.pdf

They really should do some more work before publishing this stuff.
jammers
08-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“True, but companies and consumers still pay extra to have Windows over Linux. Symbian is Linux and this has been done before, so what makes Google different? The Google reality distortion field? I admit the same could be said about Apple. If Microsoft did a good job with Windows Mobile then they could make a big impact. It was just another market they went into and didn't have to make it that good because no one else in the market didn't understand software. Now Apple has jumped on the bandwagon, who do understand software then Microsoft really has to step up its game. It has the talent, experience and resources. Google has little experience of software. The only thing they make money on at the moment is search and AdSense. They have yet to prove they are good at software. They have the money and a lot of talented people working at Google, but we are already seeing Google's share price plummet, advertising revenue is drying up (this will effect Google in the long-term) and they are laying off a lot of people, plus they have a lot of other (some pointless) projects and labs and everything else in beta status. You have to ask how well they can contribute to the mobile phone. Plus free comes at a price. Google isn't giving it away for free because they are nice, they are giving it away so they can get even more information about you and sell ads to you etc. Although, because everyone things Google isn't evil and is all friendly people are happy just to give their info to Google no questions asked.”

I see what you are saying regarding Google but I don't think you can compare the Mobile OS world with the PC one. Windows market share was built mainly by stealing technologies and then forcing everyone else out of the market illegally. Licensing terms are still completely in Microsoft's favour with companies not offering Linux for fear of Microsoft screwing them over for OEM licenses in the future. Plus they own 90% of the market and people have invested money in software they do not necessarily want to replace if they dump Windows. Plus everything comes with Windows and average Joe doesn't realise that it is really is a hidden Windows tax.

In mobile terms the software you bought probably only works on the mobile you bought it for and the market was tiny until Apple launched its Apps store and showed everyone else how it should be done. The high value and good availability of some very good apps (with some rubbish ones as well lol) generally will encourage current iPhone users to upgrade to another iPhone in the future so they can continue to use their software. This does not really exist with current Windows Mobile phones and thus there is no incentive for Mobile Phone companies to continue to license Windows Mobile if they could get a free version, especially on phones which have razor thin margins.
MrKev
08-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“I am aware of those apps, but just because they can do some small gimmicky desktop apps does not equate to being able to put together a whole OS for a phone. Most are just apps knocked together by some guys at Google with some of their free time they get”

You make it sound like it's blokes in a shed. Rather Google went out and bought companies, hired programmers and appointed managers with experience in mobile platform development. Android was the company they initially bought actually, founded by the developers of the T-Mobile sidekick and full of people highly experienced with mobile platform development. Hardly home-brew.

Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“Also, let's be honest, a lot of the software Google churns out is not that great, especially Google toolbar”

OK, other than the toolbar list me this 'lot' of churned out, not that great software then.

Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“They have a long way to go. Apple and Microsoft have been designing software and UI for decades, Google just started a few years ago.”

What has that got do do with anything at all? Experience counts and that just depends who you have working for you. If I went out and employed 100 people who'd worked on and developed Photoshop and gave them 2-3 years of development time, then I'd say I'd have a pretty darn good photo editing program.
TheSoulBrother
08-12-2008
Google took the key people from Sidekick/Danger to build Android. And They are more than competent enough to pose a serious challenge in the mobile OS space. Add in the OSS aspect, lack of a Windows-esque dominance in the market and it being free and you have a really compelling proposition.

I still think Microsoft can make gains in the market though - even with a paid OS.

Whatever happens, it will be fascinating to watch. Ideally you want 2 or 3 platforms with 30% or so of the market each, and all loosely based on open standards and common frameworks where necessary (Webkit/HTML5, OAuth/Portable Contacts, CalDav, Zeroconfig etc) so that data access and portability is platform independent
Mark in Essex
09-12-2008
Originally Posted by mjdj1689:
“Thing is when this phone comes out most new phone will be upto 8 meg on the camera and nokia are still using 5 meg.”

I think 5mp is more than enough for a mobile.

Unless they have decent optics then anything over that would be worthless - the more mega pixels is just a marketing ploy (unless you have a decent camera with good optics and are blowing photos up to A0 size then there is not much difference (apart from interferance with them trying to cram more mp's onto a small CCD)).

As long as it's at leastm 3mp, has decent optics and a flash then I'm happy (would be better with an optical zoom). My old 3mp Canon takes great pics.
call100
09-12-2008
I agree the MP number becomes irrelevant from 5 onwards unless the quality of the optics and shutter speed are up to scratch. This is where the competition will be won or lost
Mark in Essex
09-12-2008
Also I think there have been iPhone killers years before the iPhone, but it depends what you want it for (if you want video, music & internet then the iPhone is the best - for EMAIL's, spreadsheets etc then other phones are the best - it depends what you want it for and I'm not too bothered about music, videos etc and the other phones are quite good for the internet).
Mark in Essex
09-12-2008
Originally Posted by omipalone:
“Shortly after the final word on the ZX Spectrum Vs BBC Micro/Atari ST Vs Commodore Amiga/PC Vs Apple Mac is delivered I don't doubt

I played with the iPhone - I hated it - I played with the HTC Touch HD - I loved it - I paid my money - I made my choice.

*note - for the record - BBC Micro - Commodore Amiga - jury still out on the last one *”

Dragon 32! Dragon 32!
canvey
09-12-2008
vic 20
red_g00ner
10-12-2008
calculator
kyussmondo
10-12-2008
Yes I do have a downer on Google. They probably can make a good mobile OS because at the moment they are rolling in cash and with the whole do no evil and the whole bubble they are riding at the moment, the most talented people want to work for them.

I have two issues. One, I do not trust Google. I feel like they show themselves as being a really friendly company but at the end of the day they are collecting more and more information on us and still answer to the shareholders. Two, I fear they will become too bloated. Lets look at companies such as Microsoft or Sony. Both huge companies and do everything but the kitchen sink. All well and good when you have cash to burn, but if you are making crap on the side then it is going to come back and bite you a few years down the line. Google are not the good guys, they are just the new Microsoft.
tdenson
10-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“ Google are not the good guys, they are just the new Microsoft.”

Oh, I quite agree. I just happen to like what they do (at the moment) and I'm not paranoid about the information they collect about me.
MrKev
10-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“Yes I do have a downer on Google. They probably can make a good mobile OS because at the moment they are rolling in cash and with the whole do no evil and the whole bubble they are riding at the moment, the most talented people want to work for them.

I have two issues. One, I do not trust Google. I feel like they show themselves as being a really friendly company but at the end of the day they are collecting more and more information on us and still answer to the shareholders. Two, I fear they will become too bloated. Lets look at companies such as Microsoft or Sony. Both huge companies and do everything but the kitchen sink. All well and good when you have cash to burn, but if you are making crap on the side then it is going to come back and bite you a few years down the line. Google are not the good guys, they are just the new Microsoft.”

So essentially you're anti-Google on what you think they might become rather than the great (free) stuff they do now? Being a big, diverse company doesn't mean things are going to go wrong. You seem happy with Apple stuff for instance when they have for more of a history of poor behaviour.

Seems a bizzare way of thinking.
jammers
10-12-2008
Originally Posted by kyussmondo:
“Yes I do have a downer on Google. They probably can make a good mobile OS because at the moment they are rolling in cash and with the whole do no evil and the whole bubble they are riding at the moment, the most talented people want to work for them.

I have two issues. One, I do not trust Google. I feel like they show themselves as being a really friendly company but at the end of the day they are collecting more and more information on us and still answer to the shareholders. Two, I fear they will become too bloated. Lets look at companies such as Microsoft or Sony. Both huge companies and do everything but the kitchen sink. All well and good when you have cash to burn, but if you are making crap on the side then it is going to come back and bite you a few years down the line. Google are not the good guys, they are just the new Microsoft.”

You can't claim they are the new Microsoft. They haven't illegally destroyed the competition or used illegal contracts to force its crappy OS on everyone and everything.
ib1-2
11-12-2008
I'm happy with my E71
bondagekitten
01-01-2009
I use the lovely touch screen and qwerty keyboarded G1 phone.

No real problems so far and I got mine on launch day (but I am a beliver in open source software and my N95 was driving me nuts with it's constant crashing and inability to show e-mail with CSS properly).

I am peeved that T-mobile wouldn't let me upgrade despite being 2 months past my 18 month contract running out so I had to get a new number and transfer my old one onto a pay as you go (I picked a £15 virgin phone that came with £5 credit on it) to transfer it back onto my G1. I use my phone for my business so needed to keep the number on my main phone. I would have had to pay over £300 on launch day for the handset and admin charges so I took the slightly annoying route and got the phone for free on a £40 a month contract (800 mins and unlimited texts/internet), if the £30 flex option had been available then I would have went with that.

To me the G1 is much better than the iPhone because of the keyboard making emailing and texting a doddle and the open source apps market. Yes the G1 will get blown out of the water soon but it's doing the job well for me, the you tube app and the mp3 player get a fair amount of use too. Ok it doesn't have a big onboard storage but I got a 2gig card free with it and bigger cards are cheap enough if I get bored chaning albums on and off it.
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