Parents have a BT Hub Phone and currently use it as a second line to make calls to my analogue land line.

Quality is a bit rubbish, and I wondered if it would be better if they could make a true SIP to SIP call (being as it's really a SIP phone).

If I was with BT and had a Hub Phone myself then the answer obviously would be yes.

However I'm with PlusNet.

I use my Nokia N80 for VoIP anyway, and have both PlusNet and Sipgate VoIP accounts. I can call a SIP phone either with a number if there's a peer arrangement (there isn't between Plus and BT, even though BT own Plus!), or direct via the sip address (e.g. 12345@somesip.address.com).

In fact I understand it is possible to connect to a BT Hub Phone like this if you have the IP address (though it's dynamic, so use of a service like DynDns is required).

However, can a BT Hub Phone call a SIP address of the format 12345@somesip.address.com ?

I don't have such a phone myself so I don't know if it's possible to enter such addresses.

It should be possible to call any sip uri from BT home hub but depends on peering arrangements in place.
As you know sipgate is notoriously hard sometimes to make an actual sip to sip call to other than from another sipgate user due to sipgates slightly restricted peering arrangements (depends from what service you are calling from.

I'm unsure on this, but I've been told that peering only applies to where you want to call via a prefix and a number.

If you call via the full uri, in theory your SIP client just makes a direct connection to the resolved IP address at the other end. I have found I can call some URIs that have no peering arrangement. Although maybe it's just they haven't published the arrangement.


But it's all very confusing. I can't see how any of the general public can even start to understand this stuff.

It's probably why hardly anyone really promotes true VoIP calling, and most people just use it to make cheap landline, mobile and international calls to analogue phones.

The lock-ins for VoIP->VoIP that ISPs and operators are using may be attractive for them, but worse than useless for the user as they are limited to calling someone with the same provider.

in what way ?
is it echo / delayed transmission etc ?



looking at the PlusNet website, it states you can call landlines etc - since the hub phones generally have a Geo Number (which is regarded as a landline, even the 0560 numbers), any call made from PlusNet VoIP account dialing the Broadband talk GeoNumber should be VoIP to VoIP and not hit PSTN.

that said, it's entry into the BT network is dependant upon where PlusNet feeds in. as PlusNet operate independently it could be that they come in/out via traditional trunks rather than an IP interconnect. BT don't hand out SIP endpoint info as it's meant to be used purely for dialing geo numbers (as it's a lot more convenient).



If you mean what i think you mean - then no. The hub phone is a dect handset. The client is actually in the Hub.


the hubphone is set up to be an additional service and mucking about with long SIP addresses is not convenient or simple for end users to type into the handset. i would not expect this functionality to be available.

Heavy distortion from the person calling using the Hub phone to my land line. If they call from their land line to mine, it's quite clear.

No delays or echo issues though. Just really distorted and hard to make out what the other person is saying sometimes.

BT boast about high quality when doing Hub to Hub, so I wondered if the same would apply if they could call any SIP phone rather than go out via PSTN.


Ah, that explains things then. So the hub is an ATA.


Works great with Nokia's VoIP integration into their mobiles. Basically a SIP address is just another entry you can make against a contact in the address book on the handset. Typically with a mobile you wouldn't type it in anyway but have it send via vCard or some other means of transferring to the phone.

Thing is, with VoIP->VoIP, I can't see the numeric method and peering working either, as there's no way anyone in the world with a VoIP phone can call anyone else with a VoIP phone and each provider has their own method of prefixes (and even if you have the right peering, you have to know who provides the number to dial the right prefix). With SIP addresses there is at least a universal means of addressing and (from what I understand) peering may not always be necessary.

However, VoIP->VoIP seems a non starter anyway as almost everyone is just interested in using VoIP to make cheap calls analogue calls.

ok - VoIP to VoIP on BBT is v.good. I have used it a number of times, the Voice Quality is surprisingly good.

second - VQ on your parents stuff. sounds funny.
consider the following.

find out if they have a PC/Laptop etc. get them to turn it off incase of trojans etc chewing up bandwidth.

check the hub wifi - in case someone unknown has gained access to the wifi network and is using their bandwidth.

change the WiFi channel - strange (considering its a DECT handset) but has been known to help.

if all else fails - get it reported. all bt helpdesk number are free now so will not cost anything.

yeah - but my point is that it's not difficult for people like you or me, but general users want a standard phone number based solution - why, cause it's just really simple to use.



nonsense.
Review this Webpage to find out why...



for the most part, although any VoIP provider using an interconnect (provided they have geo numbers issued) will be able to talk to the outside world. i think you would be surprised by the number of companies already doing this.

Well, looks to me all VoIP operators need to sign up to it, and looks heavily BT based (judging by most of the search hits).

At present it is still not possible with a simple number system to be able to call anyone in the world on any VoIP network.

I can see this will result in a two-tiered system. Larger commercial operators who have their own existing PSTN infrastructure who are moving over to IP anyway, and all the other VoIP operators out there who may not sign up. If it's a particularly UK pushed system, then that makes it even worse.

For operators with existing PSTN systems, it's great as they just push out ATA devices to hook up customer's DECT phones, and the customer is fairly unaware of the change, and they can of course continue their existing charging structure. For everyone else who wants calling from outside of a traditional PSTN operator, it's another matter. Would be interesting to see the mobile operators go down this route. As I say, mobile manufacturers are instead building in true SIP addressing which works just like having someone's email address in the phonebook.

and that will always be the case...


they can build it in all they like, if mobile operators went this way, they would still require an interconnect point.

interconnects are necessary and whilst i get exactly what you mean about addressing, it doesn't work IMO in the real world.

numbering systems provide safety nets so consider the following:

1. numbering will likely mean association with an individual by a VoIP provider (ie. attached to you/your bank account). this allows indentification as to where the call is being made from. which is a legal requirement for 999 by VoIP operators.

this also means you can identify if required - any party who is potentially harassing you.

2. numbering systems will require an external interconnect to hook up 1 provider to another - this provides a level of security to the VoIP provider. as a request must go to a defined number, interconnects will only route to defined (ie. real) numbers. else the call should be dropped.

without it you could potentially have a DOS attack on a VoIP provider just hammering it with "hello" requests.

3. this is the real major factor! just using addressing will not make money for mobile providers. you need a secure method of ensuring calls go down a pipe they control - using direct addressing will bankrupt them in a matter of months.


all that aside - have you reported the VQ issue yet ?
also - other companies provide interconnects in the UK other than BT.

Which was my point


That's down to my parents. They're the ones on BT.