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Cameron Picks On Asylum Seekers This Week.


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Old 26-10-2003, 11:47
ben4321
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Alrightmate - another magnificent post. "Lovin' your work."
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Old 26-10-2003, 11:59
Tickle_Disciple
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Originally posted by iain
why? what do you take me for?

Iain
A Huge Cameron Fan, Blinded by love, until now that is
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Old 26-10-2003, 12:41
Mesostim
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By some odd coincidence..l..look at this article in the Scotsman....On the subject of police and racism...A job for Cameron perhaps?

]Also I don’t think that planting Big Brother-style informants among trainees would be right. What we need is to see questions which would allow attitudes to be analysed."

Link
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Old 26-10-2003, 17:43
lorry
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Hi everyone - I've been away from DS for a while, on hols then busy etc.....anyway I have to join in this time and agree - this is indefensible.

P.S. leave Iain alone! (I still feel the need to defend Iain, you understand. )
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Old 26-10-2003, 18:07
skazza
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nice to see you back, lorry!

defending iain! whatever next!
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Old 26-10-2003, 18:38
iain
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Originally posted by Tickle_Disciple
A Huge Cameron Fan, Blinded by love, until now that is
well thinking that was your first mistake then, wasn't it?

all this BS about *Cameron Apologisas* or whatever.

shocking as this may sound, but its possible to judge something on the issues involved independently of others.

if you guys want to attach labels like the one above, and presume people *love Cameron* or whatever, and choose to defend everything he says or does simply because they adore Cameron then thats your guys' look out

i still happen to think it unlikely that Cameron would actually beat someone up. and its not because I adore him or feel the need to worship the ground he walks on.

and I also happen to completely disagree with his comments on asylum seekers.

amazing, huh?

Iain
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Old 26-10-2003, 18:59
maisymoo
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Iain
I have to say that AGES ago you agreed that Camoron was a hypocrite and therefore not an Orkadian Oddity apologist. Always (I thought) you were stating that the "evidence" as such was insufficient to condemn the man as a total abhorrent creature. The Daily Mirror story was no confirmer to you, and the point that tabloids make things up was acknowledged. I for one do not find it amazing you disagree with Camoron's comments but in lieu of all that, just what are his redeeming features?
He lies, is a hypocrite and has all those distasteful traits above. What is there that is in any sense defensible?
That is not a rhetorical question, I really do want to know the answer.
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Old 26-10-2003, 19:25
iain
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the fact that it was arguably unfair of people to presume he was the sort of person that would go round beating up women, based on very flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption.

that was about all really. i never said i liked the guy after all.

Iain
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Old 26-10-2003, 19:52
Mesostim
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Originally posted by iain
the fact that it was arguably unfair of people to presume he was the sort of person that would go round beating up women, based on very flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption.

that was about all really. i never said i liked the guy after all.

Iain
This is a distraction Iain....smoke and mirrors....distract back to an old cyclical argument to get away from the fact that Cameron is happy to write articles that the BNP would be proud of. So I won't take that bait...no matter how tempting you make it.....
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Old 26-10-2003, 21:05
iain
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i was just answering maisy's question.

you're free to call it what you like tho'...

smoke and mirrors huh? you make me sound so devious!

Iain
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Old 26-10-2003, 21:18
Mesostim
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Originally posted by iain
i was just answering maisy's question.

you're free to call it what you like tho'...

smoke and mirrors huh? you make me sound so devious!

Iain
You are

That Cameron then...a right wing bigot...who'd have thought from the scarce evidence we'd been given
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Old 27-10-2003, 00:34
DryHumper
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Originally posted by Tickle_Disciple
A Huge Cameron Fan, Blinded by love, until now that is
I get the feeling alot of people read other peoples posts, but strangely put them some strange filter that interprets their words as something completely different. I read alot of Iains posts during the "uber argument" thread, but I never once saw him say he was a big Cameron fan.

And you wonder why tabloids do so well
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Old 27-10-2003, 04:58
Alrightmate
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Originally posted by ben4321
Alrightmate - another magnificent post. "Lovin' your work."
Thanks Ben
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Old 27-10-2003, 05:47
Alrightmate
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Originally posted by iain
the fact that it was arguably unfair of people to presume he was the sort of person that would go round beating up women, based on very flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption.

that was about all really. i never said i liked the guy after all.

Iain
Hey iain, I respect the fact that you can be flexible enough to apparently modify your opinion based on new evidence.

And I suspect that Mesostim was merely testing you to see where you stand,....I really hope you don't see this as a reason to start an argument on semantics.

I have to take you up on your first paragraph above though.

I myself never said that Cameron would go round hitting people. My personal hunch is that he would be too much of a coward.

I said I felt he was a man who often induldged in violent thoughts.
This article is a strong indication that he does,..even if previously one didn't feel so.

The fact that he doesn't go around beating up women,..does not mean that he is not violent.
What would be worse,....beating up one woman,.....or writing an article that reaches many people, where the subsequent consequences could result in violence being enforced on many people?

The implication that immigrants cause racism and hatred is absolutely disgusting.
That comment alone, is probably enough to perpetuate feelings of violence and hatred in many others.
One more dangerous racist comment thrown out by the media that has potentially dangerous consequences.

While the situation regarding illegal immigrants is such a delicate one right now,.the last thing we need is crass, narrow minded, bigotry like this, that can only add fuel to the fire.
Complete unconstructive comments that are dripping in hatred.

If Cameron really cared about the issue,..maybe he would have had more ideas about what may be done,..but he doesn't, he just simply says he's angry about immigrants.
What good is that going to do anybody.

His comments seem to be of the type that get written about in tabloids,..and he shows no true knowledge of the situation. To me, it looks like he's simply read a few sensationalist headlines in some rags,..and they just seem to have been accepted by him, maybe because they conveniently appeal to the unpleasant side of his nature.

Right, I'll stick my neck out here,..I'm going to compare him to the nazis...don't care if I get flamed for this.
We are told that we must learn from mistake in the past,..that started with rumour mongering, and built up into the extermination of Jews in the second world war.

It was all planned out,..and Eichmann layed out the blueprint to other high profile nazis.
The consequences were extreme.
Now if they personally didn't dirty their hands,.....does that make them any less violent as people?

Now I'm not saying that Cameron is a nazi,..what I'm saying that his hatred, however unaware of it he is,..is potentially very dangerous right now.

I say that this flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption that you mention, has just been proven to be not so flimsy, and the presumptions were more accurate than you may wish to credit them for.
Much of what we see in the media in general(and maybe actual real life) is based on presumption and circumstantial evidence,..it doesn't mean conclusions based on them are wrong. Often they are bang on the money.

A man with violent thoughts,..can be more dangerous than a man who is physically violent.

His column would have reached many people,..and for people who already have racist tendencies, and for others who are simply stupid and/or as narrow minded as Cameron,..it's just another piece of hateful propaganda that gives them another unecessary excuse to justify the hatred within them.

immigrants are likely to cause racism and hatred....that's the point that I believe is pure hatred, and is the most disappointing thing I read in the whole article .Extremely damaging stuff.
It gives the racists a green light to transfer the finger of blame about their own personal blind hatred, onto their victims of which whom they seek to demonize.
Utterly contemptable.

Knowing Cameron as we do, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to shield his hatred here, using his old technique to deflect attention from his real misdemeanours.
"Och,.I said something really bad in that article of mine,....I'm so ashamed"
"Why Cameron,..what did you say?"
"I can't say..it's a secret"
"Go on tell us"
"Och,..Okay...I said I fancied Penny Lancaster,..Ooh dearie me, how naughty of me"..(Cameron starts blushing and acting coy)

Last edited by Alrightmate : 27-10-2003 at 06:04.
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Old 27-10-2003, 08:51
iain
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Originally posted by Alrightmate
Hey iain, I respect the fact that you can be flexible enough to apparently modify your opinion based on new evidence.
I'm not modifying my opinion tho' - I'm having different opinions on different things.

I really hope you don't see this as a reason to start an argument on semantics.
I have to take you up on your first paragraph above though.
well - which is it?

I myself never said that Cameron would go round hitting people.
perhaps not - but there seemed to be a general consensus that yes he would - based way back in the Mirror story - if we believe, as many people here seemed to, that story, the only reason he didn't actually hit the woman in question was because he was physically dragged off of her.

therefore we surely have to conclude that without this restraint, he would indeed have struck her. yes?

to conclude anything less than that is to say that the story was exaggerated or embellished. which was all I was saying, but got shot down in flames for saying so. remember?

I said I felt he was a man who often induldged in violent thoughts.
This article is a strong indication that he does,..even if previously one didn't feel so.
how is it? he talks out his arse, clearly - but where do the *violent thoughts* come into it? it makes him mad, yes - but violent? presumably the things he says, or similar crap in the Mail make us *mad*? is that same violence similarly implied in all of us? or just Cameron?

The fact that he doesn't go around beating up women,..does not mean that he is not violent.
What would be worse,....beating up one woman,.....or writing an article that reaches many people, where the subsequent consequences could result in violence being enforced on many people?
well, I'm not convinced that Cameron's article in the Sunday Post is going to directly result in any majot outbursts of violence - but I agree its the sort of thing we could well do without.

The implication that immigrants cause racism and hatred is absolutely disgusting.
yes it is.

His comments seem to be of the type that get written about in tabloids,..and he shows no true knowledge of the situation. To me, it looks like he's simply read a few sensationalist headlines in some rags,..and they just seem to have been accepted by him, maybe because they conveniently appeal to the unpleasant side of his nature.
do you think if presented with more information he might to some degree come around? as you yourself say, he may just stupidly believe certain stuff he reads and not make the effort to learn more.

Right, I'll stick my neck out here,..I'm going to compare him to the nazis...don't care if I get flamed for this.
We are told that we must learn from mistake in the past,..that started with rumour mongering, and built up into the extermination of Jews in the second world war.

It was all planned out,..and Eichmann layed out the blueprint to other high profile nazis.
The consequences were extreme.
Now if they personally didn't dirty their hands,.....does that make them any less violent as people?

Now I'm not saying that Cameron is a nazi,..what I'm saying that his hatred, however unaware of it he is,..is potentially very dangerous right now.
whoa there! fundamental difference here - the Nazis devised and carried out their ethnic cleansing policies.

Cameron, although blinded by ignorance, is merely showing discontent on the situation as he perceives it - ie the system is all to pot. he's not saying they should be interned in concentration camps for example - simply asking why so many have to come to the UK rather than, say, France or Germany. I don't think he actually directs hatred towards the people involved - or at least not in a way that you can use to compare him to a Nazi.

I say that this flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption that you mention, has just been proven to be not so flimsy, and the presumptions were more accurate than you may wish to credit them for.
not at all - the stuff that I was referring to before was on a different subject, and as such still stands.

Much of what we see in the media in general(and maybe actual real life) is based on presumption and circumstantial evidence,..it doesn't mean conclusions based on them are wrong. Often they are bang on the money.
except for all those stories about asylum seekers of course, which are rarely bang on the money?

A man with violent thoughts,..can be more dangerous than a man who is physically violent.

His column would have reached many people,..and for people who already have racist tendencies, and for others who are simply stupid and/or as narrow minded as Cameron,..it's just another piece of hateful propaganda that gives them another unecessary excuse to justify the hatred within them.

immigrants are likely to cause racism and hatred....that's the point that I believe is pure hatred, and is the most disappointing thing I read in the whole article .Extremely damaging stuff.
It gives the racists a green light to transfer the finger of blame about their own personal blind hatred, onto their victims of which whom they seek to demonize.
Utterly contemptable.
very possibly - we'll just have to hope that nobody really gives a shit what Cameron Stout has to say, won't we?

Iain
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Old 27-10-2003, 09:01
Mesostim
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very possibly - we'll just have to hope that nobody really gives a shit what Cameron Stout has to say, won't we?

Ha Ha...oh no....Many people voted for Mr Stout stating what a lovely, genuine, gentle man he was......They covered his homophobic views with semantic excuses and now he's revealed to have far right views that will have the BNP pleased they have a major celeb on their side...spreading their message. Some christian he is...What Would Jesus Do? Get a column in the Nazareth Times whinging about foreigners......He's a sickening hypocrite......So yes....We do care.

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Old 27-10-2003, 09:23
iain
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yes - many people voted for Cameron to win BB, but I don't suppose many of them remain that bothered by what Cameron is or isn't saying.

you think the BNP will be approaching Cameron to stand for them in Bradford North?

Cameron a *major celeb*? you're having a laugh now, aren't you?

Iain
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Old 27-10-2003, 09:26
likescats
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Surely some kind of spelling mistake, major pleb is what you meant to say?
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:07
Tickle_Disciple
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Originally posted by iain
the fact that it was arguably unfair of people to presume he was the sort of person that would go round beating up women, based on very flimsy circumstantial evidence and presumption.

that was about all really. i never said i liked the guy after all.

Iain
Hey, I don't know about anyone else but I have never thought nor stated that he would beat up a woman. I do however think that he has quite a temper on him and would hit a bloke if provoked, which is one of the reasons he didn't drink much in the house. Even though he may have not shown any physical violence he victimised and bullied more than one housemate and encouraged others to join in, which in my opinion was just as bad and hurtful (to lisa in particular).

For someone who is apparently indifferent to the guy you spend alot of time defending him and making excuses for his nasty views and behavior, this would be more acceptable if you countered these flaws with his positive attributes, which would balance his personality (as everyone has good and bad points). I personally feel that his ugly side far outweighs any of his good points, of which I can't find at all.
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:12
iain
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Originally posted by grimfandango
Surely some kind of spelling mistake, major pleb is what you meant to say?
i was only quoting mes...

Iain
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:13
ben4321
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Originally posted by Tickle_Disciple
I personally feel that his ugly side far outweighs any of his good points, of which I can't find at all.
Absolutely. Both Jon and Federico were genuine, three-dimensional people with rounded personalities and a good mix of flaws and strengths.

In contrast, the more guarded Cameron was, the more a certain underlying baseness began to seep out.
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:16
Mesostim
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[quote]Originally posted by iain
yes - many people voted for Cameron to win BB, but I don't suppose many of them remain that bothered by what Cameron is or isn't saying.

Hey..enough people voted for him sayingf what a good, decent gentle man he was....A really genuine nice guy...who never meant his homophobic words..it was just his religion, no bigotry at all...Oh look...he really was an arse all along...But let's be fair..for all we know some other right wing bigot has been writing his stuff for him..it worked for Jade...maybe that should be your angle Iain...Do we KNOW he wrote this far right wing hate filled rant.....

you think the BNP will be approaching Cameron to stand for them in Bradford North?

They may as well....he's on their wavelength.....he can run for Orkney..apparently they are being swamped by a wave of human effluent who only want money because Orkeny is a soft touch...and they spread racism...Cameron is furious about it!!! What Would Jesus Do....join the BNP it seems.......

Cameron a *major celeb*? you're having a laugh now, aren't you?

Caught me out there.....
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:24
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[quote]Originally posted by Mesostim
Originally posted by iain
yes - many people voted for Cameron to win BB, but I don't suppose many of them remain that bothered by what Cameron is or isn't saying.

Hey..enough people voted for him sayingf what a good, decent gentle man he was....A really genuine nice guy...who never meant his homophobic words..it was just his religion, no bigotry at all...Oh look...he really was an arse all along...But let's be fair..for all we know some other right wing bigot has been writing his stuff for him..it worked for Jade...maybe that should be your angle Iain...Do we KNOW he wrote this far right wing hate filled rant.....

you think the BNP will be approaching Cameron to stand for them in Bradford North?

They may as well....he's on their wavelength.....he can run for Orkney..apparently they are being swamped by a wave of human effluent who only want money because Orkeny is a soft touch...and they spread racism...Cameron is furious about it!!! What Would Jesus Do....join the BNP it seems.......

Cameron a *major celeb*? you're having a laugh now, aren't you?

Caught me out there.....

For no particular reason other than to catch someone in-did anyone hear the speech by Gene Robinson-it touched me very greatly and made me cry for some time.I will engrave it and put it on the wall I think.
He is not a minority
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:28
Mesostim
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Edit.....
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Old 27-10-2003, 10:44
piranhaville
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Originally posted by iain
yes - many people voted for Cameron to win BB, but I don't suppose many of them remain that bothered by what Cameron is or isn't saying.
On the contrary. I think that is why they voted for him.
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