I dont think the judges got the placings far wrong this week. Austin was not up to his usual standard and Lisa was over-marked ( as usual )..but would reversing their positions have made any difference to the dance-off placings ? Tom and Rachel were clearly the best performers this week, so the dance-off seemed fair to me.
Who should have been saved is a different question. Are the judges obliged to go purely by the performance in the dance-off ?..if so, that does make rather a mockery of the competition. Even the X-factor judges take into consideration previous weeks performances and the potential of the contestant.

Both.

The judges were also at the grassy knoll, and at the fall of Thatcher - in fact, there's an obvious connection with John Sargeant, right there. What, you think he was pushed aside in 1990 by Bernard Ingham by accident? How naive can you get?

DS polls are wrong most of the time on most reality TV shows.

The polls I have seen and the vote leak if true all had Tom top. Tonights vote works out to the same conclusion if Tom topped the poll. No week's outcome has suggested either was in the lead - either could have been.

David James - were you at the grassy knoll as well??????

They lead very busy lives.

I could tell you, but then... etc.

That's nothing - I bet you didn't know that Arlene was in Paris at the end of August, 1997, did you?

Diana's death was all down to the Len-Arlene secret mine-manufacturing business. I know this to be true, because a man down the pub told me.

I can't believe Austin and Erin are out!! They absolutely should have won this year, and judging by this week's favourite couple poll I'm not quite the only one who thinks so. I've been disliking the judges for years (since last year I've even started recording the show so I can fast forward their comments and so I don't get annoyed by their inconsistency) but now they've really gone too far . They're turning into dictators more and more, with the dance-off and especially the new rule that bottom two couples can't be saved by the public anymore after a couple of weeks - why are the public even allowed to vote anymore???

When they say that the decision on who goes is controlled 50% by the judges and 50% by the public, they are talking aload of rubbish.

First the judges decide the first set of points that each couple gets, then the public decide the second set of points. From that, the bottom two are revealed, of which THE JUDGES get to decide who goes home!

What a crock.

Judges- 50%???
Public- 50%???
Seems more like the judges get two thirds of the decision to me!

Possibly yes. If many peoples prediction is right that Austin would have got the majority of votes a 2 from the judges rather than a 1 would have made all the difference and in all probability Rachel would have been in the dance off.

I'm following you about tonight - I agree.

I have said on the spoiler post that Austin danced two good dances tonight, where as Lisa danced one great dance and one bad dance tonight.

Yet again one extra mark per dance for Lisa saves her - no way did her jive deserve those marks and her waltz was not perfect even by SCD standards.

For the first time since SCD started I feel completely disillusioned and let down by the judges because of their over/under marking. And I hate to say this, but Len's practice of over marking to try and compensate for Craig's marks has had a big impact this series (I am not saying Len is the only judge who doesn't always mark what he sees - far from it).

I can't decide whether the judges -[LIST=1][*]honestly mark what they see[*]do manipulate the leader board deliberately[*]they are too dumb to work out the impact of their marks when comparing one couple's performance against another's on the same night.[/LIST]I just don't like the way that public vote being overturned as often as it has this series.

Time for bed soon me thinks.

Well imo both Rachel and Lisa were worth 39; Tom - 38, and in no way was Austin worth more. The lifts were good, no question: but the rest of it was seriously unimpressive.

I dont agree........Lisa's jive was terrible........Rachel is dancing by numbers? boring

So don't.


Because a poll based on a bunch of internet fans is bound to be the most reliable measure.


I know - scumbags, daring to judge based on dance ability.


OK, what?


Christ knows, I ask myself that every time I read this forum.

No actually you only have to change his position with the judges by one place OR for Lisa and Rachel's public vote to have swapped.

Seems like you need a refresher course in maths.

Assuming the boys have more votes, if Austin moves up one spot he escapes the dance off if he beats Tom in the public vote . If he stays where he isonly if Lisa beats Rachel in the vote and he beats Tom is he safe. It all actually depends on the public votes fro Rachel, Lisa and Tom.

I'm following you about tonight - I agree.

I have said on the spoiler post that Austin danced two good dances tonight, where as Lisa danced one great dance and one bad dance tonight.

Yet again one extra mark per dance for Lisa saves her - no way did her jive deserve those marks and her waltz was not perfect even by SCD standards.

For the first time since SCD started I feel completely disillusioned and let down by the judges because of their over/under marking. And I hate to say this, but Len's practice of over marking to try and compensate for Craig's marks has had a big impact this series (I am not saying Len is the only judge who doesn't always mark what he sees - far from it).

I can't decide whether the judges -
honestly mark what they see
do manipulate the leader board deliberately
they are too dumb to work out the impact of their marks when comparing one couple's performance against another's on the same night.
I just don't like the way that public vote being overturned as often as it has this series.



Absolutely all to the above. Of course they manipulate the leader board - there is no way that Lisa and Rachel are the bet dancers EVAH!!! on Strictly - Jill never got near the marks they are giving these two dancers and she was way better. They have to manipulate to get the end result that the BBC wants.

Terrible, terrible marking and a dreadful indictment on the judges integrity.

And you're basing this conspiracy theory on...?

I agree with the judges marking tonight having the top three on equal marking. There is nothing to choose between them.

I don't think you can compare the marking from Jill's series with the last couple of years. High scores are given out much too freely now. Craig is the only one who marks with any sort of objectivity (most of the time ).

The dance-off has been a bad idea also but I don't really like the alternative either of popular people who really can't dance making it to the final. So it's a no-win situation.

I do think that Austin was the weakest tonight. His latin was never great but I expected his AS to be a LOT better. Sorry.

So very true.

Not on Strictly they aren't. Never have been.

Either way it can be seen that Lisa and Rachel are well down on the overall popularity stakes (probably 6th and 7th) and if both of them get through next week in place of the more popular Tom, what a thoroughly uninteresting and lack lustre final it will be.

Tess might as well say 'vote for who you're least apathetic about' because that will be what it boils down to.

I think you will find that he needs to beat Tom in the public vote too. I don't think he can do that anyway and there's no evidence he could or did.

if Austin is moved up to third and has 2 points and you add 3 for second with the public he is outnumbered by Rachel who gets 4 points from the judges and adds 2 if she beats Lisa by taking third place in the poll. You have to assume Rachel is last for Austin to survive.

If he stays where he is he gets a maximum of 5 which only gets him out of the bottom two if he both beats Tom to get the 4 and Rachel comes last with the public and also ends up with 5 and fewer public votes.

The argument comes down to the judges should have put Austin higher than Lisa which is very marginal and the public needed not to vote for either Rachel or Tom in order to save him.

The judges decide the first set of scores, the public decide the second set of scores, then the judges decide who goes from the bottom two.
No maths course would say that's a 50/50 balance.

Maybe you should go back to saving goals rather than questioning other posters maths ability.