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This Series is total Tosh. Confirmed tonight.
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Loolabelle
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by samitza:
“What concerns me slightly is the fact that they may introduce a rule that says that if a couple is in the bottom two for more than 3 weeks they have to leave, which is ridiculous and another example of how this show is turning into more of a serious dance competition rather than an entertainment show, which is why so many people are losing interest. I can only hope they don't introduce that next year. If there is a next year, of course.”


Originally Posted by flashgirl:
“I think the bit I've bolded sums it up for me, and also for all my family and friends who watch the show. I was out with some friends after last night's show, most of whom are huge Strictly fans, and not one of us could care less who wins at the end of all of this, we're all just bored of the whole thing now. As someone said ealier in the thread, I find it sad that we have the potential to have two couples in the final that the majority of people obviously don't give two hoots about.

I think some of the serious dance fans on here , as well as the producers and judges of SCD, forget that the majority of people watching the show are watching it for entertainment value and that entertainment value has been seriously lacking in this series, especially in the latter stages. Come Dancing failed to gain viewers for a reason - people want to be entertained on a Saturday night, not watch a serious dance show.

I really do think that one of the big problems with the show is having the dance-off still existing in the latter stages. The judges are very blatant about who they want in and who they want off and without doubt they manipulate the leader board accordingly. I actually think the dance-off's fine for the first few weeks as it can stop a very good dancer getting voted off early on because people don't know who they are etc, but should be dropped by the time we're down to the last five couples.”

If the public wish to vote for entertainment that is there choice, but you can't expect the judges to base their marks on anything other than the standard of dancing as they perceive it. The fact that the judges quite often disagree is a sign that they each see different things when watching a performance. At least they do change their opinion often enough, unlike many of the public voters who stick steadfastly to their favourite for any reason other than their dancing capabilities. Also, the producers are unlikely to know from the outset how personalities will develop on the show, so it must be difficult to select a decent mix of celebrities for 'entertainment value' if they don't know them personally beforehand. Personally I find the 'learning to dance' factor very entertaining, regardless of the personalities involved. Whether they change the system of the show or not, you can't please everyone.
Loolabelle
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by Zippy289:
“Totally agree with those saying there are far too many 10s flying about this year. I remember when I first watched the US version and was laughing at how lenient the judges were, giving out 10s willy nilly. But now they're doing it over here.

At least they don't have the dance-off in the US, possibly because they actually believe in democracy over there. Imagine if we applied the same concept to general elections: the public would vote, but then four know-it-all judges would get to decide whether to overturn their decision. There'd probably be a riot!”

But the judges vote first, and the public then counteract the judges vote. The couples in the dance off have the least public support, so surely whichever couple is voted off by the judges from the dance off shouldn't really matter to anyone other than the viewers who supported that couple.
Shinyperson
07-12-2008
I'm only glad that the millions and millions of people that still watch disagree with OP.

I'm actually shocked by the amount of negative threads that cropped up last night. I honestly (naively it seems) thought that I'd come on here and see a throng of threads praising an incredibly entertaining night of dancing. No duffers, just four nice people loving the dance and going for it. I can't believe that not everyone enjoyed it as much as I did

I want Austin to win, but thought he was deservedly bottom of the leader board (he failed to thrill me with his AS have to say - that was one he could have nailed).

Rachel's tango was utterly stand-out for me - it was so entertaining and well-timed. I enjoyed her cha cha also.

Tom's foxtrot was wonderful (didn't move me with the Rhumba).

Lisa's waltz also lovely (jive was messy but fun).
passion_flower
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by Loolabelle:
“But the judges vote first, and the public then counteract the judges vote. The couples in the dance off have the least public support, so surely whichever couple is voted off by the judges from the dance off shouldn't really matter to anyone other than the viewers who supported that couple.”

Not necessary true: the public can only do so much against the judges vote. E.g. Austin could have come top tonight with the public and still be in the bottom two:
R: 4+2 = 6
T: 3+3 = 6
L: 2+1 = 3
A: 1+4 = 5

I don't want to be the bitter viewer who shouts conspiracy when my favourite goes, but I stand staunchly in my view that Austin was better than Lisa. Going out against Tom or Rachel I would have been able to understand, not Lisa. But that's just my opinion.
escol
07-12-2008
My observation is that the higher profiles celebs have gone, with the possible exception of Tom Chambers, the others are a bit out of range of the average viewer. I guess this is what happens when the judges make the show all about them rather than the entertainment.
allisonbm2
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by passion_flower:
“Not necessary true: the public can only do so much against the judges vote. E.g. Austin could have come top tonight with the public and still be in the bottom two:
R: 4+2 = 6
T: 3+3 = 6
L: 2+1 = 3
A: 1+4 = 5

I don't want to be the bitter viewer who shouts conspiracy when my favourite goes, but I stand staunchly in my view that Austin was better than Lisa. Going out against Tom or Rachel I would have been able to understand, not Lisa. But that's just my opinion.”

In general yes (I am a Lisa fan here so please understand what it took to say that!) However the dance off is judged their best marked dance against each other and last night that meant waltz which Lisa did a great job with against Salsa which wasn't as good. Hence the result.Those are the rules and based on the dances done it was a fair result (I will also point out that I like Austin and but for the JS fiasco this would have been the semi f line up and a darn fine one too)
nancy1975
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“I think it deflates the show when someone who is at least less popular than 5 or 6 other contestants could win it.

We'll either have a complete walk over of a final now or one that the majority don't seem to care about. It's hardly going to be a great final if the public by and large are apathetic about those taking part. And a rather hollow victory if we have 'you won because the public disliked you the least! well done!'

The dance off should stop at the quarter final stage. By that point we're likely only going to be left with good dancers anyway and that will give the public a bigger say in which of those dancers they want to see competing for the win.”

Thank you for saying what I was feeling.

All family and friends are devastated because essentially a vastly popular and high scored over the series dancer went over an unpopular dancer with lower scores.

Democracy...no.
Shinyperson
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by nancy1975:
“Thank you for saying what I was feeling.

All family and friends are devastated because essentially a vastly popular and high scored over the series dancer went over an unpopular dancer with lower scores.

Democracy...no.”

Well no it's not a democracy (and not because of the dance off). It's not a democracy because they charge for votes (that would cause a stir at the next general election) and they allow multiple votes.

Let's not get hysterical. I agree that there shouldn't be a dance off in the later stages (although I wanted one (sing off) in X factor last week, it might have saved Ruth).

But the majority of viewers don't actually vote - so we don't actually know who is most popular/unpopular. We know Rachel and Lisa have been in the bottom two before (on different nights), but we don't know that last night's dances wouldn't have attracted different viewers to them.

I have always liked Rachel, but in the last few weeks I think she's been superb - I would have voted for her last night on the basis of a brilliant tango and an entertaining cha cha - having never voted for her before.

Lisa has grown on me a great deal - I think she's entertaining (drew the short straw by getting the jive tonight, but her other dance was a waltz (beautiful) so it evened out) - other viewers may think like me and may have voted for her on this basis.

We are guessing at the amount of votes anybody got.
Almira G
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by yohinnchild:
“At this stage seeing as there are so few couples, it should be down to the public vote - No Judges vote off”

I agree
passion_flower
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by allisonbm2:
“In general yes (I am a Lisa fan here so please understand what it took to say that!) However the dance off is judged their best marked dance against each other and last night that meant waltz which Lisa did a great job with against Salsa which wasn't as good. Hence the result.Those are the rules and based on the dances done it was a fair result (I will also point out that I like Austin and but for the JS fiasco this would have been the semi f line up and a darn fine one too)”

Understand totally how hard that was and appreciate it - I find it hard to admit faults of my faves...not that it matters any more in my case

I agree with what you're saying. I just find it a bit annoying that sometimes in the dance off the judges save the best dance they see right there (e.g. Lisa over Cherie) and sometimes they save the person with the most potential (e.g. Heather over Dom). It should be one or the other. The person with the best dance this week = Lisa. The overall better dancer = Austin
CASPER1066
07-12-2008
Judges rediculous marking has ruined it for me, they are voiding the public vote with their over marking............so whats the point.

CLEAR OUT THE JUDGES..........
RichmondBlue
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by Shinyperson:
“Well no it's not a democracy (and not because of the dance off). It's not a democracy because they charge for votes (that would cause a stir at the next general election) and they allow multiple votes.

Let's not get hysterical. I agree that there shouldn't be a dance off in the later stages (although I wanted one (sing off) in X factor last week, it might have saved Ruth).

But the majority of viewers don't actually vote - so we don't actually know who is most popular/unpopular. We know Rachel and Lisa have been in the bottom two before (on different nights), but we don't know that last night's dances wouldn't have attracted different viewers to them.

I have always liked Rachel, but in the last few weeks I think she's been superb - I would have voted for her last night on the basis of a brilliant tango and an entertaining cha cha - having never voted for her before.

Lisa has grown on me a great deal - I think she's entertaining (drew the short straw by getting the jive tonight, but her other dance was a waltz (beautiful) so it evened out) - other viewers may think like me and may have voted for her on this basis.
We are guessing at the amount of votes anybody got.”

Yes, but when did you last see a bad Waltz on STD ?..even JS made a decent job of that particular dance.
It would be like one of those cookery shows, one contestant makes a nice cheese omelette but the other has to tackle an Italian Timpano.
Shinyperson
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Yes, but when did you last see a bad Waltz on STD ?..even JS made a decent job of that particular dance.
It would be like one of those cookery shows, one contestant makes a nice cheese omelette but the other has to tackle an Italian Timpano. ”

nice analogy. That's why I added my comment about the jive.

But a brilliantly done American Smooth (which can have a waltz base - I admit it is more difficult) would have more impact on votes than a waltz (imho) particularly because of the lifts and potential for the "wow". Austin missed his chance with the AS. Lisa didn't with the waltz.

(I do want him to win - I'm just pretty objective about it today)
taxi_driving
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by CASPER1066:
“Judges rediculous marking has ruined it for me, they are voiding the public vote with their over marking............so whats the point.

CLEAR OUT THE JUDGES..........”

I agree, it's very sad.
allisonbm2
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Yes, but when did you last see a bad Waltz on STD ?..even JS made a decent job of that particular dance.
It would be like one of those cookery shows, one contestant makes a nice cheese omelette but the other has to tackle an Italian Timpano. ”

Phil Daniels...or was that not the answer you wanted?(He would have done better having the cha cha first I think)
aggs
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by Shinyperson:
“ nice analogy. That's why I added my comment about the jive.

But a brilliantly done American Smooth (which can have a waltz base - I admit it is more difficult) would have more impact on votes than a waltz (imho) particularly because of the lifts and potential for the "wow". Austin missed his chance with the AS. Lisa didn't with the waltz.

(I do want him to win - I'm just pretty objective about it today)”


Well, I actually preferred the AS to the Salsa with Austin last night.

If the judges were trying to load things the way they wanted, then making his Salsa score higher than the AS would be a good move.
thenetworkbabe
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“I agree. The judges have definitely lowered the bar in this series. The over-marking has become absurd. Even Len said last night that he wished there was an 11 paddle ( for another dull routine )..no wonder, he has been giving 10's for mediocre performances for weeks !
I guess the judges are just mirroring the rest of society..over praising the second rate has become a British trait.”

Yes but as in the educational system it doesn't matter as long as the best people get more marks and the worst get least. You give mediocre perfromances an A but then invent an A* for someone better or if you give the mediocre 90%, the really good get 99%, or you give average perfprmers a big mark and a mediocre reference.

I agree Len has worked himself into a position where he gives so many 10s (and starts at 7) that he needs an 11 for something better - but if he gave Rachel a margin over Tom and Lisa by giving them 9 and Rachel 10 people would complain about that too.
hotpotato
07-12-2008
Original Poster: registered November 2008. TICK

Never watching this ever ever again. TICK

The most predictable threads every week. TICK

:yawn::yawn::yawn:
thenetworkbabe
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by CASPER1066:
“Judges rediculous marking has ruined it for me, they are voiding the public vote with their over marking............so whats the point.

CLEAR OUT THE JUDGES..........”

Marks don't matter. The leaderboard order is what matters. There hasn't been any convincing argument made that the leaderboard hasn't been in the right order for the last two key weeks. The consensus here seems to be that the placings have been right even if the marks are wrong. Some fans will think their favourite is always better than some or all of the other contenders but that doesn't tell us that the leaderboard was wrong or the result was unreasonable or should have been clearly different.
Shinyperson
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Marks don't matter. The leaderboard order is what matters. There hasn't been any convincing argument made that the leaderboard hasn't been in the right order for the last two key weeks. The consensus here seems to be that the placings have been right even if the marks are wrong. Some fans will think their favourite is always better than some or all of the other contenders but that doesn't tell us that the leaderboard was wrong or the result was unreasonable or should have been clearly different.”

Totally agree
johnnyutah
07-12-2008
as a fan since series one, I think they've gradually killed SCD over the last 2 seasons. The Ramps vs Dawson final was the show's peak.
They have lost sight of the show's original spirit. Since they dumped Gethin out in the semi last year to ensure Alesha won, all I've seen is the show become too hyped, too much of a celeb-fest, and too manipulated –and sadly following the X Factor template.
Tampering with the format has been to the detriment of the show. No live results show has been terrible. Ditto the whole bottom 2 dance off thing and Len having final say. This basically means your vote is redundant as regardless of who you vote to save, they may end up booted off anyway.
The whole Sergeant fiasco epitomised where SCD has gone horribly wrong - turned it into too much of a serious dancing contest.
Too many couples in this series, too much pointless padding on Sun show, and blatant electioneering by judges this series for Rachel - obviously cos she's not getting the public's support.
I actually agree with what Brendan just said. Judges marks all over the place and completely unfair. Lisa'a jive was better than Tom's rumba and as good as Rachel's cha cha. And Austin's first dance deserved higher marks.
If it was the old format, the final would be Austin - the dancer with the most charisma vs Lisa - the biggest improver.
Sadly, due to the judges meddling, I see this as highly unlikely and we'll probably end up with an extremely bland Tom vs Rachel final, which will be as much of a damp squib as last year's final.
If Rachel goes through, she'll effectively have a bye in the semi dancing the Argentine tango with Vincent.
Can hear the judges cooeeing now. Utterly transparent and v. sad
high five
07-12-2008


Two people are obviously more popular with the juges they've been in the bottom two the most. This series has been a total joke. With Sunday show and the dance off, will there be a dance off next week with 3 couples. The juges sure can manipulate things. Lisa's jive was atrocious but yet she got a 9 off bruno. They never give negative feedback to the females, scare of the tears.

i'm watching the x factor from now on, and if the viewing figures are an indication, it's what most people will be watching next week.
water_carrier
07-12-2008
I'm very disappointed. Based on the jive tonight Lisa should have left. That's not to say her jive was not any good but it was not quarter final standard.
Candy Store
07-12-2008
I couldn't agree more with this thread but I can't put it strongly enough. I am livid that Lisa has been saved three times when she wasn't even good enough to have got through the first time.
DustySuperfan
07-12-2008
Originally Posted by taxi_driving:
“No spoilers please, but anyone who's now given up on this farce, please sign here.”

I agree, it's a farce!!
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