I agree with this. The judges tend to (although not always) judge a dance on technical merit. However, there is more to good dancing than this. One dancer could perform technically better but fail to capture the imagination and another could make minor errors but still shine.

Of course some people vote for reasons other than the dancing and they're perfectly entitled to. I understand the argument that the worst dancer on the night shouldn't necessarily get straight through because they are popular but I don't agree with it. The public have been given a vote. That vote should count at this stage. The judges have a way of ensuring that their favourite gets through (the dance off). The public don't. I don't agree with this. Especially as I still maintain that I'm pretty sure it wouldn't happen in a three couple final. There wouldn't be time for a dance off there so the public's favourite could not be eliminated. It just doesn't seem right that the goalposts should shift with the circumstances and the judges should get more of a say at this stage than they were originally meant to have when the show started.

If the public can't be trusted to "make the right choice" then there shouldn't be a public vote. The dance off exists to try to ensure that the better dancers reach the final stages. It's now done that. Time for it to stop.

That makes little sense. There are other differences between SCD and Come Dancing than whether there's a public vote.

Besides, the SCD public vote does have effects, even if it doesn't have all the effects that some people might want.

Obviously there are differences which haven't been mentioned - the use of celebrities in SCD which didn't occur in Come Dancing being one example.

The SCD vote did have an effect (see John Sargeant). However, as the numbers dwindle the power of the judges increase - ironically when they shouldn't be needed as much, as only the strongest remain.

The situation as we have it now is - at the quarter final stage of a competition which offers a public vote, the winner of this vote could well be eliminated. Tess constantly says 'you can change everything' which is absoultely rubbish while the dance off remains in this tight situation.

As I said, early on I can see the benefits of a dance off, but at this stage, where the public may vote yet not even get the final two the popular vote wants, it seems ridiculous in the extreme.

[quote=River Man;29342164]and yes I think he's reliable he's provided insider info on other programmes too!

I think he's a she

Done some digging and charlie claimed to have info about how the vote was going on 'I'd do Anything'.

She said Jessie was leading every week, (by a large margin some weeks) sam 2nd and Jodie 3rd.

As those who watched will know, Jodie won. So either there was a big turnaround in the final, or the earlier figures were wrong.

I'm dubious. Sorry charlie.

Firstly, you are correct I am female. Secondly, if you are going to dig out info on people you should read up everything. There are two people on here Spoiler Girl and myself who have high up insider contact at the Beeb. As regards I'd Do Anything the voting was going Jessie's way for a long time but if you kept up to date with my posts you will see that the week Rachel left things changed and her votes appeared to go to Jodie and then so did Sam's leaving her ahead of Jessie in the end. At the Beeb they get reports on where large volumes of calls are coming from to gage voter interest and patterns and they were able to ascertain that the people voting for Rachel were also tending to vote for Jodie and that after Rachel left they upped their number of votes for Jodie. Also in the small time that there was to vote after Sam left a large number of votes from the Isle of Mann were recorded. Basically they do reports about each series voting and they concluded that Jodie won more votes as time went on through (a) her personality growing on people (b) the sympathy vote and (c) she was the most popular housemate and when the Nancy's were leaving they were all tending to say they wanted Jodie to win hence her votes also grew that way.

As for Strictly the voting order this year has been John number one until he left, followed by Christine as number two, Tom number three and Austin 4. Things then changed again on Christine's eviction week. Tom got the most votes followed very closely by Christine but it was not enough to save her from the dance off. Rachel has not had very many votes at all. The general feeling at the Beeb is that her personality is not coming across well and also they all agree it was a mistake her doing an article about all the work she expected to get off the back of the show. The week that article came out she was in the dance off and had received the lowest votes overall.

My reliable source at the Beeb has said that Lisa's votes vary each week but they are never that high but she is usually above Rachel and her voting numbers have been growing whilst Rachel's have been going the other way. Apparently this season is all wrapped up now and baring him dropping out Tom has won. He is miles ahead in the votes and in the final week that is all that counts. Therefore, they are not planning on massive advertising now for the final like they have in previous years as they feel it would be wasted money. They have him signed up for the tour and so as far as they are concerned the winner and by the looks of things the runner up will both be on the tour so they are happy.

Also the Bosses at the Beeb are very annoyed that Austin was sent home as it was appearing to be a really close contest with even the bookies having Tom and Austin on the same winning odds, which was bringing in lots of votes but now he has gone they are expecting a dip in votes due to people knowing the outcome. They are concerned now for this weekend as they know that with The X Factor final they are going to get hit really badly vote wise and they are expecting viewers to possibly tune out now that it is a forgone conclusion. It's a shame that the Judges couldn't think like that before they voted this weekend. They basically ruined the show for everyone!!

I hope this info helps and it is up to people to decide whether they believe me or not but anyone who knows me on this forum knows I had info on I'd Do Anything before anyone else knew things including what job offers people had after they were kicked off the show.

Anyway that's all the latest gossip from the Beeb so far. If there is anything else I'll update you.

PS - If I didn't make it clear they are expecting Rachel to be put through to the final by the judges especially with her having the Argentine Tango the week after the Tango success.

Thanks SmileyCharlie.

So going by that, they're expecting Tom to go through automatically with judges and fans vote combined, then Rachel being put through ahead of Lisa in the dance off.

Not surprised the BBC would have wanted Austin through as him v Tom seemed to be a good showdown to end the show. As said, it does *seem* predictable at the moment, but this is Strictly, and anything can happen.

What article was that?


Why would be BBC care how many votes they got? The money isn't going to charity, nor is the BBC making a profit.


So the judges shouldn't mark according to how good they thought the dances were and should instead try to contrive the final that will get the most viewers?

Well you've kind of answered your second point with your third point. Voters are linked with viewers (not inextricably so I'll grant you but the link is there).

In answer to your third point, of course not assuming that is what they're doing. However, a slight change of personal opinion here and there and you have dancer X coming above dancer Y on the leaderboard and a completely different result. We've all heard enough so called experts disagree with each other to a lesser or greater degree on the same dance. All it takes at this stage is a one mark swing here and there. Len and Bruno's seemingly arbitrary tens are a case in point. I'm not saying they've had any real significance in any outcome so far but they could have. Particularly when there are two dances being marked.

If the point was really about the number of viewers, why were votes mentioned in that way?

We're supposedly being told what the "Bosses at the Beeb" are thinking. I'd be interested to know why they care so much about the number of votes.


The post was complaining that the "Judges couldn't think like that before they voted this weekend" and saying "they basically ruined the show for everyone!", where "like that" seemed to be about the number of votes and viewers.

So evidently the judges were suppose to think "like that" rather than judging the quality of the dances.

I highly doubt that article had any bearing on her votes at all. I don't know anybody outside of DS who was aware of its existence and even then most people don't know of it.

Thanks for that. Suspected as much.

Surprised to learn that Christine was topping the public vote above Tom and Austin.

I dare say 5 nights' a week exposure on The One Show didn't do her any harm, but that notwithstanding, she does seem to be a very popular TV celeb.

thats how i think it happened

[quote=SmileyCharlie;29348264]

Fascinating & meaty post and it has the ring of credibility.

I'm amazed it hasn't generated loads of discussion

Anyway thanks so much SmileyCharlie and I for one would love any more insights on the inner workings on programme.

PS I've only just logged on so if there are threads discussing this - apols.

they would of got so many ratings to see Austin v Tom
so many would of loved to see the comardorae (sp) between them both and the banter bewtween the best friends, would of been fab

This is what really annoys me. Someone who has topped the public vote and then comes second one week can leave the show. I will keep saying it, but the dance-off should've gone a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if there's any way we can make the BBC take note for next year (it's already too late this year).

The dance-off is a flawed system and possibly needs a slight if not complete rethinking. However I will say that the judges do seem to judge it as they're supposed to.

You know how they were proposing that someone who thrice came bottom of the judges leaderboard should automatically be eliminated from the show? Should the same happen if they came bottom of the public leaderboard three times? Do you think they'd give the public that much power??

[quote=Apricot;29350996]

I don't think there are - not sure too many FM's are aware of SmileyCharlie's info.

Interesting, isn't it?

You're singing from my hymnsheet JamieHT

I did complain last year (proper letter with a stamp(!) not just on their complaints website) about the iniquity of a three person semi with dance-off. I got a reply about 6 months later I kid you not with the standard bland tosh & with no attempt to address individual points.

Last year, I could understand the lack of foresight with the withdrawal of Kelly but, this year, they've been through the experience of a 3 person semi with dance-off, they know the potential pitfalls and yet, astoundingly, they're repeating it.

Do you think the judges insist upon the dance-off?? I mean they never used to have it, but has the power gone to their heads do we think?

Is the only way to make the final unpredictable now to have an all-girl one?? I don't want either of them to win, but it would be difficult to guess the outcome?!

They were overjoyed when the BBC gave them the power of the dance-off ....

It didnt really solve the problem with the Kate`s and John`s getting through with the public vote though.

Now they have too much power in the final 3/4 weeks

I suspect they did insist on more power - not due to total megolamania - but because they were frustrated at good dancers going out. Trouble is the flaws in the dance-off system in the quarters and semis due to low numbers lead to anomolies such as the bookies' favourite going out.

What I found most enlightening from SmileyC's post is that the programme makers are as frustrated with the outcome last Saturday as we are.

I always suspected (now it appears quite wrongly) that the producers had meetings with the judges and gave them nods in certain directions. But the producers came up with the system to appease the judges and now they have to live with a possible final of two women who are not terribly popular relative say to Christine, Tom & Austin.

Fascinating insight into the voting pattern.

Suppose we hadn't had dance offs - would a final with John, Christine & Tom have been any better than Rachel and Tom (as seems likely)? Trouble is, once your own particular favourite is out (in my case Austin) the show inevitably loses some of the sparkle.

Yes, from what I remember there was some speculation that this happened to Gethin last year, though there was never any proof that he was more popular than Alesha. I didnt think he was, though I was still heartbroken when my dream final went up in the air.

SmileyCharlie

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your insight into what's going on - thanks - keep them coming

Wonder if SmileyC had any knowledge of the voting last year?

Just to put matters to rest.