Don't you think that's because sites like this help whip up the hype,expectations and criticism. Obviously if it means a lot to the fan base and viewers, it's going to be reflected in the celebs and pros competitiveness?
It's a monster the fans/viewers have helped create.

I don't see a huge lack joy in the dances at all, in fact exactly the the opposite. Rachel was talking about how much she loved the Tango and wanted to do it for weeks, Tom about how in touch and part of his dance he felt and so on.

As for competitiveness - surely that should be there, it is a competition after all. In every series there has come a point where you hear the celebs start to talk about how it has suddenly started to feel like competition, usually when we get down to about this stage.

It isn't a series of soulless demonstrations. It's people working damn hard, competing, and for some, falling in love with what they're doing. There is passion in spades.

They may Love this that and the other dance and find joy in them but it is not coming across on screen from either of the girls (to me at any rate). At least Tom and Austin still managed to look like they were enjoying what they were doing and this was what was so appealing about Alesha last year. John, Jodie and Christine all managed to look like they were still having fun right up to the end. This is where the spark is lacking this year and what makes the competitiveness look so desperate as it has overwhelmed the joy. Just this one persons opinion though and I have voted for Rachel too.

In a long running series there are always going to be ups and downs.

I haven't enoyed this series as much, for the following reasons, the long drawn out start with too many couples and too many single sex weeks.

I disagree with the judges that this series has the best dancers ever. Their scoring and comments have been incosistent and in many cases very destructive. There really has been no need for so many tens.

The dance off is humiliating and unnecessary. I would prefer the results show to be on a Saturday night, but thanks to DS and the spoiler thread its not a pressing concern.

Having said all the above I enjoy SCD, have enjoyed parts of this series, and will continue to watch. Hopefully next year the sparkle will return to the glitter ball for all of us.

oh I do hope you're right.

Changes would have to be made for this to happen though, I fear.

Do you think they will make changes though? The members on this forum are a small minority in comparison to the vast general public who watch SCD and I'm not sure our views are a reflection of what most people think. I've mentioned on previous posts why this series hasn't lived up to my expectations but not sure if most people (general public) feel the same.

I just don't feel the excitement about this series as I have felt for previous ones. One thing I have enjoyed though are the pro dances, I think they have been very good this year and my only reason for watching the Sunday show (which I wish they would get rid of!)

I wonder if it might be an idea to get rid of the judges and have a new set in - no one seems to trust them anymore and they have set a lot of people's backs up. Len and Bruno's talking over Craig and Arlene - and Craig and Arlene's ill-advised comments over J.S - yes by all means critise his dancing and place in the competition but calling him lazy and a then a coward for quitting is beyond the pale. It might get rid of the mark inflation too.

I agree about the pro-dances this year. Also, Brian and Kristina have been a real plus.

To be honest, I think the core problem has resulted from the behaviour of the judges. Now to what extent they are acting on instructions from the producers, I have no idea, but some fresh blood and greater differentiation in marking would be welcome, imo.

I've enjoyed this series less than other years but that may be because there hasn't been a stand out favourite for me. The JS saga also was a negative.

All 3 finalists are competent but there isn't one who wows me - like Alesha or Jill did. Also I feel the judges have overmarked Lisa and Rachel to reduce the chance of a Tom/Austin final - I feel a bit manipulated!!

I agree there's been a real chasm open up this series between judges and public. I think the rot started when they introduced the dance-off in series four to save Emma. That set up an inbalance in the judges favour, and I'm sure this eventually resulted in fuelling the ridiculous cult of JS which marred this series. I think John would have fallen by the wayside naturally around mid-series or just after had it not been for the controversy, stoked by the likes of Craig and Arlene condemning the public's vote in the media. Scrapping the dance off altogether, or at least from the quarter-finals onwards, would help to bridge the chasm, as would judges sticking to doing their job and not campaigning in the media to get rid of their unfavourites. I don't think there should be a purge of the existing judges, but a new face on the panel, perhaps a pro dancer who has already been on the show, may help with the re-boot.

The other point about lack of joy in the dances I half agree with. I think on this series we've seen a lot of joy in the dancing from Jodie, Christine and Tom. Austin brought a lot of entertainment value, too, though I think his fierce competitive streak made one or two of his stand out dances seem a little bit calculated. But we've also had more than the usual quota of people who either didn't seem to enjoy the experience very much (Phil, Andrew and Heather spring to mind), or contestants who seem focussed far more on the competitive aspect than the learning to dance and having fun side of things (Cherie, Lisa, Rachel - though I think in all these cases their pro partner may have been partly to blame for this).

I've only seen two previous series of SCD and certainly I enjoyed those far more than this one. Also, I'm not convinced when the judges tell us this has been the best ever line up. Even when I see clips of the earlier series on YouTube or on ITT, I think there were some amazing celeb dancers like Denise, Jill, Zoe and Colin.

And I've not seen anyone this series who comes very close to lighting up the floor with the joy of dancing like Alesha or Mark did in the past two series.

I don't disagree. I was merely suggesting that part of the problem may be that they are just grinding on season after season when it might do them some good to take an extra few months to really think about what they are doing. It also might result in some natural wastage as I can't see them having a shake up even if one might be useful.

I certainly think another dance expert on the panel might be useful, and perhaps it should be a woman. Len, or another man, may have an appreciation of how dances are different for the female partner, but it is not the same as having done it.

Watching Tess is car crash TV, and sadly Bruce is these days too. He was brilliant in his time but that time has gone I'm afraid. The show only really needs one presenter, the back stage stuff really isn't necessary.

However I think the major change that is needed is to the production team. This lot seem intent on dumbing down further and further every year, witness the poor conduct of the studio audience, and this year the increasingly poor conduct of the judges in talking over each other, which I suspect is being encouraged.

This series has definitely gone downhill for me - I haven't watched ITT or a Sunday show since JS left, and to be honest I haven't missed them. The judges arguments are getting on my nerves now too, and I don't know why they are doing it. Perhaps they are still in shock at the great British public not agreeing with their opinions!

I think this year's contestants have played a part too. There are no 'stand-out' personalities, and most of them do not seem to have any work on apart from SCD - if you think back to the early series, the pro dancers travelled around to fit the rehearsals around the celebs work commitments. No such worries now (apart from Christine/Andrew). It does strike me as a career move for some of them ('this will get me noticed again') and I'd rather have the fun element back.

It's a shame - I've watched SCD from the start and loved it in the past, but it really has lost it's gloss for me this year. And ITT is dreadful - I'm not a fan of Claudia's presenting style anyway, but the content is dire. Why can't we just see the training room footage? We used to get film of the pros dancing whatever was coming up at the weekend, not Len's 'masterclass' (how many years has he been teaching Claudia now and she still hasn't grasped the concept of transfer-of-weight - some masterclass ).

I think it would benefit from skipping a series, but as they've sold it to so many countries now I doubt they'll want to admit defeat!

Here's hoping it returns to past glories next year.

Well! What a to-do! So many different ideas of what SCD should or should not be... what's best and what's worst. "Last series was best" (I never voted once).... "this series is rubbish" (I've spent a fortune on phone calls - but never for JS) and I'm still intrigued as to who will win. I'm sure I remember last year reading loads and loads of messages on the boards about how rubbish previous series were.

Of course the past is usually more fondly remembered and with a rosier glow than the present, so obviously Alesha, Mark and Jill are all going to be better than any of the present. I do remember getting very involved in the third and fourth series as well, as I was a great fan of Zoe Ball and Mark Ramprakash. But to be so absolutist as to say that Nothing in this series is any good is a bit much.

We all have out favourites and Austin seems to have been a favourite with many many people. Lots of those people are disappointed now because they feel the only three left are just too desperate to win. It matters too much to them. Erm... Excuse me, but didn't Austin and Erin want to win? Weren't they in fact the most supremely competitive couple of the competition with their eye solely on winning? Didn't Austin say right from the start that there was no point in taking part in a contest if you didn't try to win! Why did no one take him to task for that? They were absolutely gutted that they got knocked out. I'm sure they felt that they had at the very least a chance at the final if not the trophy itself. I'm sure Erin felt that this was her year. And quite frankly - why should she not. She had a celeb who was a decent dancer and who was very very popular. They both went for it and gave it their very best shot. Why is it that their hard work and competitiveness is not denigrated.

Why should the ones who are left not want to win - weeks and weeks of effort and physical pain, and it's meant not to matter to them? It's not that they seem to want to win... they DO want to win. By this point, who wouldn't. I've enjoyed their progress this year, each of them, and have found something to delight me each week.

I've also become even more a fan of Claudia W's this year and think I've missed one episode of ITT. I want the Beeb to give her another job where her humour and quick thinking can equally be enjoyed.

So instead of joining in the whinging on this thread tonight, I'm trying to give an opposite view.
Sleep well all. xxx :sleep:

This feeling appears widespread on this forum and with those to whom I speak in the "real world ()".

I wonder just how prevalent this feeling might be amongst regular viewers in general. Maybe it's just us, but our household feels kind of cheated recently, for sure.

It's not just Austingate that's done this although it's a culimination of what many believe has been wrong this year- there's been a general souring of the atmosphere it started with unfair dismissal of Nicole and it's continued through the feeling that the fun has gone and everyone is too competitive, nervous and joyless. The people whom many found endearing were not great dancers and the great dancers are not endearing and in some cases chronically over-rated - Rachel's foxtrot is a prime example of this it was a lovely dance but it lacked any sort of wow factor and you can't feel it was worth a 40 score because you can't get excited about it - I prefered Tom's which may not have as technically good but was performed with liveliness and had a geunine energy. I loved Rachel's rhumba so I'm not prejuiced against her.

Hubbie summed it up watching ITT when you saw that Mark and Karen's fantastic salsa only got a 36 score the first time around whilst quite meh dances are getting scores in excess of what this year.

The arguably unfair elimination of Austin - one of the few contestants who combined talent with entertainment value just kinda of seals the impression that the contest this year is all-wrong and the dis-illusionment and bitterness against the judges especially after them being so critical of people over JS and in some cases critisism him in ways that went beyond the pale - you can say someone's dancing is rubbish and they shouldn't be there but to call them lazy and then a coward for quitting is wrong. The fact that even Brendan who actually benefited from judges's favouristism is critising them says how low they've sunk in the estimation of many people. The dialogue between public and judges that produces has become a vicious arguement and the judges voice in it has become too loud in danger shouting down the public which is what would have happened if Tom leaves this Saturday.

I think therein lies one of the problems, though. Austin was very, very popular, but his departure in the quarter final showed that the judges can veto all of the public choices right up until the final, with a very real possibility that the final is contested by two dancers who have relatively little public popularity. That is bound to create some bad feeling around a show, however good the judges' favourites are. This is nothing new... I'm sure this was an issue when Emma was chosen by the judges over Louisa in SCD4 and again when Gethin went out in the semi-finals last year. The difference this year is that Lisa and Rachel who are consistently saved by the judges seem to have far less popularity with the public than any of last year's final three.

Ideally, of course, the judges and public should come to a consensus on who is the best dancer in any given series - the judges have their chance to influence the public vote, but I don't think they should have the power to veto the public choice, certainly not in the latter stages of the competition.

Also, I think a lot of posts on this thread are not whinging, but are sincere expressions of concern for a show that I'm assuming most of us love. I for one will remain hooked to this current series and also look forward to next year, but I do hope the powers that be take into consideration some of the feedback they are getting from forums like this.

That's a nice post, thank you.

To be honest, I've kept out of a lot of these discussions because I can't be objective. Austin went out, he went out fairly and squarely according to the rules, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I know that less popular, less able (in my opinion) dancers are left in.

I don't think this is the best bunch of dancers we've ever seen on Strictly. Austin apart, again because I can't be objective, I wouldn't even say they were in the top 5 and even one of them would probably struggle to scrape into the top 10.

The way that the vote works leaves you feeling impotent. I know that none of this would be relevant if Austin was not bottom of the leaderboard, but I think a lot of people now have the feeling that the leaderboard is being manipulated by the judges to get the result they want and that Lisa and Rachel, Lisa especially imo, finished top of the leaderboard to protect them from the dance off.

I really think that there wasn't that feeling last year so much. I wasn't watching with Emma/Louisa but I get the feeling that there were the same feelings then.

It's very hard to not get invested in the show and take what happens personally. I've really tried not to, I've tried to be fair, even though I'm incredibly disappointed, but I do feel like the rot set in the minute that everyone started doing different dances every week. It's very hard to compare a foxtrot to a cha cha, or a waltz to a samba. At least when half did one dance and half another, you could then get half an idea in your head as to who was talented and who wasn't, whereas this year, it's hard to compare Lisa's waltz last week to Austin's waltz in week 1 or Jodie's waltz halfway through. Who did the best waltz or jive, we don't really know because we don't believe the judges' scores and we can't really rank them because no-one did the same dance on the same night apart from single sex weeks and a few weeks when 2 dancers had the same dance.

So popular that he could not avoid the bottom two?

Yes, he could have been top of the public vote and still been in the dance off.

This is how it could have been, not saying it was, although I certainly think that Tom or Austin were top of the public vote.

Rachel 4 + 2
Tom 3 + 3
Lisa 2 + 1
Austin 1 + 4

There have been similar complaints about 10s for years.

The judges didn't choose Emma over Louisa, they reopened the phone lines on that first dance off, and Emma won on the public vote. However it was a foreboding of things to come.

I would certainly scrap the dance off in the last 5 or 6 weeks, if the public have the power to to save who they want to see in a final, they won't feel the need to 'point score' against the judges in voting through inferior dancers as much.

Evidence that he was very, very popular?

He's not running away with the fave couple poll.

Then why did they do it before the dance-off existed?

Taking a vox pop of people in the 'outside world' I know who watch SCD and are reasonably engaged, including a couple I know who go to the same dance class as myself who I bumped into shopping this week, they were outraged by the result. They accept like me the rules of the dance off but the opinion is that there shouldn't be a dance off at all now.

You've always had the case of the Clarys etc making it too the latter stages, but generally speaking the public always voted for the talent in the end. I prefer the public's bias to the judges. I wouldn't have been too upset if Austin had gone out on the public vote. Just a bit of course but I could accept it a lot better.