Well, not so much - the two dances have a lot of differences. The hold is very different, for example. In fact, the whole feel of AT is different from BR...


Well, obviously there is a need, in that this is a key component of their key income-earner.

Certainly the salsa - there's a good chance that most competitors will have to do it, so they should take some lessons in it, rather than just making up some sort of weird samba-based concoction.


That's a different discussion - the fact is, the dances are in the comp, and have been for 3 years now.

Yeah - it's the blind judging the blind.

I'd love there to be guest judges, specifically for these dances, but that'd mean Len giving up his "authority"...

Yeah I am an AT dancer ...and an armchair critic...but aren't we all that on here ??

I did say I'd reserve judgement until saturday.

Yes and I can't watch his programme that's on just before Strictly for that very reason!

***mutters she can't understand why Anton would wear such a hideous costume, maybe he won a bet or something***

I really enjoy the different dances-the waltz and foxtrot etc can get a bit repetitive-and by adding the extra zing of something like the salsa you get a better mix on the show I think. The AT is brilliant, I loved both Mark and Karens and Matthew and Alesha's, so am pleased the dance was added-if I didn't have those to watch on youtube now and then the world would be ever so slightly greyer for me.

In regard to there being no need to learn them- I disagree.

If you put yourself forward as a pro, surely you should make sure you know all you need to to fulfill your end of the bargain?

There seem to be plenty of dancers who excell in dances outside the basic ballroom and latin- surely you'd do what you could to make sure you were as trained in all dances prevelant to the show if you wanted to ensure your job?

Just an opinion of course.

Although, ironically, Nicole Cutler knows quite a bit about salsa.

That said, I think your "job security" is clearly enhanced if you at least get to the quarter-finals.

I guess I was thinking of the new blood-Brian, Kristina and Hayley..

Now the PTB know that new faces can garner the publics affections fairly quickly-I'd be worried!

Well, if it means more actual competition, then I'm in favour of it - if it keeps the old guard on their toes, good.

And it showed in John Barnes' salsa.

I thought it would be a must especially for the male pros. Half of them will have it as their first dance, and unless you've got a complete duffer you'll do it eventually. Some maybe Anton doesn't have to bother , but the rest of them should.!!

Didn't Vincent and Flavia help Mark and Karen with their AT? They didn't choreograph it someone else did but I remember Karen saying she felt alot more confident after V+F had been in, that VT always stick in my mind for Ramps in sticthes laughing at Karen cos she had no idea what she was doing!

Yes - the only 2 decent salsa dances were done by people with salsa experience.

Hummm, how strange - can there possibly be a connection somehow?


Yes, I think that was mentioned on today's ITT. And looking at it, it does look like V&F's style.

You'd think after three years the pros would get a clue. Unless of course you're Karen and manage to get the highest score in the competition's history at your first or second attempt.

I've noticed on here the people who have a knowledge of salsa love John's salsa, whereas those more knowledgeable in ballroom and latin think it was awful.

I personally don't think it's justifiable for the judges to have a go at Brendan for never having had an AT lesson. He is employed by the BBC and they employ him with the knowledge that he cannot do the AT. If he is required to have training in it as part of his job then you could argue that the BBC should pay for it and it should be on thier time not when he isn't under contract with them and he has to pay for it to benefit their show. At my work I'm required to learn a new laboratory technique - I'm not going to organise for me to pay for a course and do it on a Saturday.

Yes you could argue that Brendan is competitive and wants to win but at the end of the day it is just a job.

One thing I would say is that as they are on contracts would it make them more employable to the BBC if they added the AT to their CV? Would this give them more chance of getting their contract renewed - not in the past....

You seem fine with them having a go at Brendan, but my point was; why would they if they haven't had a go at any of the dancers in the last three series for not learning the AT (and yes I say 'last three' because all the pros in season 4 would have known they could be doing the dance since they were probably told about it at the beginning of the season).

Also, and this is just a guess, I'd say that Camilla hasn't done a step of AT training after dancing it with Gethin. So should the judges then also have a go at her for not keeping up with her training?

Or is it just Brendan who should get stick from the judges?

If he makes a mess of it, because of lack of studying, yes.

If he doesn't, then no.

Did you miss that the first time round or what?

It is if he screws it up royally.


What, you seriously think the producers at the Beeb care about the level of dance training their professionals have? Or even about dancing at all?

They care about ratings - and if it's a disarseter, the ratings might go up.


Celeb potential and therefore ratings success is the best guarantee of contract renewal, that's all. But yes, winning's a good way of increasing that potential.

You're arguing with the Brendan Blind ~ seeking out a sense of persecution is their lifeblood

Well, I'm finding it difficult to see how anyone can justifiably revel in claiming (as Brendan did on ITT) that he's never even seen AT before, when it's such a high-profile component of his main job, and when he's made such a big deal of wanting to win.

I mean, if he screws up and gets slated for it, why shouldn't the judges say "Maybe you should have taken a lesson sometime in the past 3 years, Brendan" to him?

Or am I missing something here? Does Brendan have some strange super-learning powers that allow him to pick up and master any dance in a matter of days? Because that'd be cool.

Well, it wasn't brilliant - the shoulders were ugly - but he moved with fluidity and he moved continuously. Too many salsas on SCD (in fact almost all of them) are stop-start. You never stop in salsa, it's continuous and flowing.

So JB was the first and so-far only celeb I've seen who actually danced proper salsa, as you might see in a salsa club.

If / when he screws up and is marked accordingly it will afford him the opportunity to have another 'passionate' tantrum, thus vindicating his role on the show as [cough] 'bad boy'.

Seriously though, if I was a pro on this show and I realised I had a good chance of getting to the final with my celeb I'd find an hour or two for a quick AT class. It would seem madness not to, especially as they all say they want to win. And certainly once I realised that one of my direct competition was an expert in a dance that I had no prior knowledge of, I'd try to raise my chances by buffing the rough edges off with a bit of professional tuition.

Ah, yes - then he can whinge about having to compete against the Galactic Tango Champion, or whatever Vincent's latest title is.

Because, obviously, whingeing is easier than competing.


Yes - the other thing is, AT can help your ballroom dancing, because it's so technique-focussed.

For example, I'm pretty confident that V&F's other dances have improved through learning AT.

But then, hah, I'm clearly living in the crazy fantasy land where the pros actually give a stuff about dancing...

I would like to clarify that my point about learning the dances is not specific to just Brendan!

Re the AT:

Camilla has pointed out that Tom will be competing as such, against Vincent in the dance, which is valid, but she hasn't gone over board about it.

Brendan just happens to be the pro who seemed to be ready with, for want of a better word, an excuse about the AT.

Basically he has covered all angles-either it isn't good, in which case his lack of experience is handily already noted, or it's great, and he gets extra bonus points somehow for managing to pull it off.

Vincent is being lauded as the one to beat, when in fact, they are missing the point-Rachel has to perform the dance well-it is her who will be marked on it!!

I am quite looking forward to it though-I loved seeing the different takes last year, it should be good!

Yes - expectations management.

You would think after what happened to Darren in season 4 where he had two dances he never really done before in the semi final that the pros would think we have to do these dances so let take some lessons.

If you look at Darren salsa with Jessie this year (without necessarily looking after Jessie) you can see that Darren's salsa dancing has improved so much from when he was dancing with emma

If I was a professional and wanted to win Strictly, I would have, within the last two years, have learned to do the AT at least for two or three planned choreograpies of a level a novice/amateur could dance to.
Rachel learned a lot in a four days. Surely a pro could learn the choreography for two or three routines in two years?

There is no excuse.

Well, there's loads of excuses. They're just not very good ones