I think part of the problem is the judging particularly of the Salsa in early series the pros got away with doing a samba influenced dance for salsa, the dance many rave about (mark and karen's) for me was far more samba influenced than salsa influenced. Even this year Len gave a 10 to Austin and Erin's Salsa which was out and out samba.

In recent series some of the Pros have made far more effort to include authentic Salsa in their routines and the standard is improving - maybe because the AT doesn't appear until the Semi's (unlike the Salsa which is in the main group of dances) that some of the Pro's haven't bothered to work on it.

Also, and hopefully he'll stick around, Brian sets the standard for salsa dancing. So even though Nicole's left, there's still one person around who knows salsa.

Interestingly, I don't remember the same level of "It's not faaaaaiir" bitching and whining about Brian being Salsa World Champion or whatever...

I would just point out that some of the pros have got up to speed on salsa and AT. Darren and Lilia for instance, now teach salsa in some of their workshops (I have attended one and did that with them and it was excellent - I teach salsa myself and they were actually rather good) and they also incorporate some AT in their cabaret show in a routine which comprises chacha and AT (Lilia calls it a Chango!), so they at least have bothered to look at these dances. They also did some AT during routines at the Albert Hall last year in Strictly Gerschin with the English National Ballet. So if they get to the semis again, they at least will be prepared.

I am not aware of any other pros preparing for these dances, but some may. Brian, of course, is a salsa expert. I think many of them think they can do a slowish samba and call it salsa and get away with it, and as the judges are not knowledgeable either, that is what they do! If I were a pro with a chance or reaching the semis, I think I would at least make sure I knew more than my celebrity partner.

Possibly because

(a) Brian isn't Salsa World Champion (or anything like).
(b) It's not such a big deal getting a points boost in week 3 (when we're still losing the 'dross') than when we're down to 3 couples.
(c) It's not like he was ever going to get anywhere with Heather anyhow (sorry Heather, but it's true).

Having said (a), I'd say the difference in class between his Salsa and the rest of the pros was a lot more apparent than gap between Vincent and the rest with AT, but I possibly have a stronger feeling of what Salsa is supposed to look like than AT.

Well, to be fair, neither is Vincent any sort of AT champion - he just knows how to dance it.


I think it's also that he made Heather look competitive with that salsa, when in reality she was actually quite weak.

yes he is

"UK Argentine Tango Champions 2006 (First time competition has ever been held)
World Argentine Tango Show Champions 2005/22006"

Yes. That competition was run by the Negracha club in London, as a once-off; it had no real official standing. It's not nothing, but it's not like a real national comp or anything, it's just a club comp.

Similarly, Bar Salsa in London used to run what it called "UK National Salsa championships". But they weren't.

So take that one with a massive pinch of salt.


Similarly, not quite as good as it sounds. They placed in the actual AT championships - and congratulations for that, it's a good result. But they only came first in the "Show Tango" section - it's not a separate competition, it's a section in a comp.

That's not to say V&F aren't very good dancers - but all this "World Champion" stuff is rubbish. In fact I think, to be fair to Vincent, he himself doesn't say that, but everyone else seems to - Claudia the Clueless, for example, and Brendan the Whinger

but he is quite happy to put those "world" titles on his website

was just going to point all that out but you saved me a job!

With Salsa and AT there are so many competitions that call themselves 'World Championship' half the time it isn't clear if any of them are official.

The other one which misleads people is the World Masters championships in the Latin many think it is the World Championships and not just another competition

All of that doesn't matter. Vincent can't half dance and choreograph a wicked AT. And he is still taking classes.

Brendan hasn't learned how to do it. That was silly at the very least, and unprofessional at the most. He's been in the show since it started and is a great dancer. He should have learned it.

I wonder if he will for next year - or if, as he managed to 'wing it' this year, he won't bother.

Then he can say ' I've only ever done ONE AT you know and I'm soooo nervous' and everybody will be thrilled again at whatever he produces.

Honestly!

If he does this again I shall lose a lot of respect for him as a competitor.

So it looks like Artem's now carrying the "I can't be bothered to learn AT" baton, passed on from Brendan.

Yes, I am indeed resurrecting threads. But unlike some, these threads contain dance discussions.

Do you know he hasn't been learning it? Robin said in an interview that he was taking lessons in a dance style he hadn't done before and Artem could well have been doing it with him. Doesn't mean they would necessarily feel comfortable to take the "pro" role or find it easy to do with the celeb, even after a few lessons???

Yes.

And I also know that he had one whole day of training (Monday) with a real AT pro, and then decided he and Kara could make it up from that point onwards.

Admittedly he's not - yet - played the BrendanPatented "I've not done a single lesson so please be nice" expectations-management card.

Perhaps he's saving that for Saturday when the judges rightfully savage him for lifting his knees, wiggling his hips, and doing what looks like hopscotch on the training video.

Is a less authentic but probably well-performed AT worse than an AT that contains a reasonable amount of necessary basics but is just cringingly, pleather-cladly, rock-musicly bad?

Accurate description! I watched the training video and wondered what it was they were doing. A very badly executed gancho gave the game away. He's a superb dancer: shame he couldn't bothered to learn something new. He could be brilliant

Surely you can add Aliona to this baton? It didnt look like she took much advice on board either. I felt her AT with Matt looked like a backled (!) Latinized AT.

I dunno, I've not seen either this year.

I've seen Matt and Aliona do a performance that in past years would be judged as "medicore".

I've seen Tina and Jared do, I dunno what the hell it was, but they deserved to go out on the basis of it.

And I suspect on Saturday we'll be seeing "HopscotchTango".

Sigh.

Sorry, there's only one baton, and I think Anton's establishing his claim to "Worst Ever AT" nice and early.

And isn't he doing the Foxtrot?

Laziness?

I'd find that very hard to believe considering the pros work about 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. (Well they did a couple of years a go when I was friends with one of them).

They dont always make the right decisions, but I'd find it surprising if simple laziness was ever the cause.

They are working at something they love and are obviously not couch potatos but they are obviosly too lazy to act professionally and take time to improve their skills for doing their job. It is ridiculous now - its years and only Vincent and flavia can produce a decent AT regularly and none of them produce a decent salsa much less an good one once in a while.

It was cringingly, pleather-cladly, rock-musicly bad. Whatever dance it was supposed to be, it could've been described as that.

I think you'll find Artem is much more up for the challenge than Brendan and will do a better job than you think

When I said I didn't see it as laziness, I was really thinking of the new pros who have come in and not had much time as they were immediately thrown into the show and work very long hours. I think it would always be a wrong decision to turn down expert help, but don't think it would just simply be down to laziness.

I do continue to be very surprised that some of the other pros who have done the show for years haven't taken lessons in between series, considering they know it will come up every year.

If I were hired to do a job, and it involved 14 tasks, and I only knew how to do 10 of them, would that be "professional"?

Would it not be professional of me to at least try to familiarise myself with the other tasks?

I'm not saying they should take a 2-year course in it or live for a decade in BsAs.

So instead of - for example - spending time showing people around his flat, he could have taken a couple of classes?

There are dozens of classes in AT and salsa in the London area, each week. There's really no excuse for not being able to do your job.


I'm open to suggestions...