Why should Tom step down, he's done nothing wrong! The judges on the other hand IMO colluded to create this farce. They should conclude their contractual obligations this series and then quietly leave!
The Judges should Step Down !
And the evidence for the alleged "collusion" is where exactly? Sources, links, etc would be most welcome of course. 
Originally Posted by xcarlax:
“noone should step down ... this is getting ridiculous ...”
“noone should step down ... this is getting ridiculous ...”
I quite agree - and instead of all of this shouting & crying of farce & fix demands that X or Y should "step down", why don't we all start to look forward to what should be an even better Final with THREE good couples (just as it should be, just as it was meant to be), and try to enjoy the dancing, the contestants, and the show dances (three of them this year, not just two).
After all, it should still be an entertaining programme, part of the highlight of Christmas. This is all getting way out of hand, and totally out of proportion.
What have I missed? What on earth is the problem? It's a great result. I did get very fed up with Len's clear favouritism for Lisa, because I don't think she needs it for one thing - she's good anyway.
They wanted 3 couples in the final, end of. I wouldn't be surprised if this was planned since the JS circus left town, but I hope that's not taken too seriously because I don't want any more of my license money wasted on another expensive inquirey, when all they are doing is making sure the final is a great show - and that's what I pay for!
They wanted 3 couples in the final, end of. I wouldn't be surprised if this was planned since the JS circus left town, but I hope that's not taken too seriously because I don't want any more of my license money wasted on another expensive inquirey, when all they are doing is making sure the final is a great show - and that's what I pay for!
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“And the evidence for the alleged "collusion" is where exactly? Sources, links, etc would be most welcome of course.”
“And the evidence for the alleged "collusion" is where exactly? Sources, links, etc would be most welcome of course.
”
Oh Mossy, Mossy, ( no shakes head icon ), mostly for you I added IMO as I know you always like to see it stated.
For me the evidence is clear, the fact that the judges can be seen to be passing bits of paper to each other during the voting process, the highly unlikely coincidence of a tied vote at the top, the marking of Lisa as 10 by Len and only giving Rachel an 8, the fact that Rachel so obviously danced better than Lisa and yet the judges ignored this. I know this will not convince you, so I argue not to change your mind but to impress on others that my arguement in not without rational backup. The evidence is circumstantial but I would argue and this is certainly true for me and many others that it is compelling. It all adds up to the judges having completely shot themselves in their collective foot. I would welcome an inquiry at the BBC that would elicit concrete evidence to back up the rapidly emerging circumstantial and compelling evidence.
Perhaps you would like to join me in calling for one?
Last edited by indigomoon : 14-12-2008 at 13:28
Everybody should step down! 
Not really.
Very true. Seems to be have been the year of over-reaction as far as TV and radio is concerned. Maybe it's just a way of people venting their frustration and worries about the really important things in life, but in the end you do want to say. "Oh get a grip".
I'm also speaking as someone who wasn't thrilled by the decision to roll over the votes, but really it doesn't matter very much.
Not really.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“I quite agree - and instead of all of this shouting & crying of farce & fix demands that X or Y should "step down", why don't we all start to look forward to what should be an even better Final with THREE good couples (just as it should be, just as it was meant to be), and try to enjoy the dancing, the contestants, and the show dances (three of them this year, not just two).
After all, it should still be an entertaining programme, part of the highlight of Christmas. This is all getting way out of hand, and totally out of proportion.”
“I quite agree - and instead of all of this shouting & crying of farce & fix demands that X or Y should "step down", why don't we all start to look forward to what should be an even better Final with THREE good couples (just as it should be, just as it was meant to be), and try to enjoy the dancing, the contestants, and the show dances (three of them this year, not just two).
After all, it should still be an entertaining programme, part of the highlight of Christmas. This is all getting way out of hand, and totally out of proportion.”
Very true. Seems to be have been the year of over-reaction as far as TV and radio is concerned. Maybe it's just a way of people venting their frustration and worries about the really important things in life, but in the end you do want to say. "Oh get a grip".
I'm also speaking as someone who wasn't thrilled by the decision to roll over the votes, but really it doesn't matter very much.
I did suspect some collusion by the judges, but then when the scores are all so high (9s and 10s), it's fairly likely that there will be a tie.
It's the points system that's really the problem here: contestants with the same judges score should be separated using a tie-breaker system, probably based on the number of 10s, 9s etc, then the previous week's score if necessary. Implement this and this farcical semi-final situation would never arise again.
They should also roll over the public vote (and possibly judges' scores) to the following week if a contestant chooses to leave. That way we'll always be guaranteed a three-way final.
It's the points system that's really the problem here: contestants with the same judges score should be separated using a tie-breaker system, probably based on the number of 10s, 9s etc, then the previous week's score if necessary. Implement this and this farcical semi-final situation would never arise again.
They should also roll over the public vote (and possibly judges' scores) to the following week if a contestant chooses to leave. That way we'll always be guaranteed a three-way final.
Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro:
“Everybody should step down!
Not really.
Very true. Seems to be have been the year of over-reaction as far as TV and radio is concerned. Maybe it's just a way of people venting their frustration and worries about the really important things in life, but in the end you do want to say. "Oh get a grip".
I'm also speaking as someone who wasn't thrilled by the decision to roll over the votes, but really it doesn't matter very much.”
“Everybody should step down!
Not really.
Very true. Seems to be have been the year of over-reaction as far as TV and radio is concerned. Maybe it's just a way of people venting their frustration and worries about the really important things in life, but in the end you do want to say. "Oh get a grip".
I'm also speaking as someone who wasn't thrilled by the decision to roll over the votes, but really it doesn't matter very much.”
Rolling over the votes favours the girls anyway as most Tom supporters like myself did not phone becfause we knew it was a wasted vote = maybe I should start athread, lol
Originally Posted by indigomoon:
“For me the evidence is clear, the fact that the judges can be seen to be passing bits of paper to each other during the voting process...”
“For me the evidence is clear, the fact that the judges can be seen to be passing bits of paper to each other during the voting process...”
IIRC that's been addressed before and it's something along the lines of them writing their votes down and passing them along the line to a waiting runner in case:
a) they press the wrong button on the pad (proves what their original vote should have been)
or
b) the electronic scoring system goes to pot.
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“IIRC that's been addressed before and it's something along the lines of them writing their votes down and passing them along the line to a waiting runner in case:
a) they press the wrong button on the pad (proves what their original vote should have been)
or
b) the electronic scoring system goes to pot.”
“IIRC that's been addressed before and it's something along the lines of them writing their votes down and passing them along the line to a waiting runner in case:
a) they press the wrong button on the pad (proves what their original vote should have been)
or
b) the electronic scoring system goes to pot.”
Yes Claire, each point on its own can be explained away, my arguement is that when you put them all together they present a damning picture.
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“IIRC that's been addressed before and it's something along the lines of them writing their votes down and passing them along the line to a waiting runner in case:
a) they press the wrong button on the pad (proves what their original vote should have been)
or
b) the electronic scoring system goes to pot.”
“IIRC that's been addressed before and it's something along the lines of them writing their votes down and passing them along the line to a waiting runner in case:
a) they press the wrong button on the pad (proves what their original vote should have been)
or
b) the electronic scoring system goes to pot.”
Yes, it was observed and discussed last year as I recall.
And in truth, seeing that this caused so much fuss over nothing (it's a TV programme after all, no-one died) I feel that the BBC should just knock the public participation idea on the head - it causes too much hassle, too much ill-feeling and to many rather silly accusations. It's just a TV programme for entertainment.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“[...]
After all, it should still be an entertaining programme, part of the highlight of Christmas. This is all getting way out of hand, and totally out of proportion.”
“[...]
After all, it should still be an entertaining programme, part of the highlight of Christmas. This is all getting way out of hand, and totally out of proportion.”
Bring me the head of 'headjodge' Len....
Originally Posted by indigomoon:
“Oh Mossy, Mossy, ( no shakes head icon ), mostly for you I added IMO as I know you always like to see it stated.
For me the evidence is clear, the fact that the judges can be seen to be passing bits of paper to each other during the voting process, the highly unlikely coincidence of a tied vote at the top, the marking of Lisa as 10 by Len and only giving Rachel an 8, the fact that Rachel so obviously danced better than Lisa and yet the judges ignored this. I know this will not convince you, so I argue not to change your mind but to impress on others that my arguement in not without rational backup. The evidence is circumstantial but I would argue and this is certainly true for me and many others that it is compelling. It all adds up to the judges having completely shot themselves in their collective foot. I would welcome an inquiry at the BBC that would elicit concrete evidence to back up the rapidly emerging circumstantial and compelling evidence.
Perhaps you would like to join me in calling for one?”
“Oh Mossy, Mossy, ( no shakes head icon ), mostly for you I added IMO as I know you always like to see it stated.
For me the evidence is clear, the fact that the judges can be seen to be passing bits of paper to each other during the voting process, the highly unlikely coincidence of a tied vote at the top, the marking of Lisa as 10 by Len and only giving Rachel an 8, the fact that Rachel so obviously danced better than Lisa and yet the judges ignored this. I know this will not convince you, so I argue not to change your mind but to impress on others that my arguement in not without rational backup. The evidence is circumstantial but I would argue and this is certainly true for me and many others that it is compelling. It all adds up to the judges having completely shot themselves in their collective foot. I would welcome an inquiry at the BBC that would elicit concrete evidence to back up the rapidly emerging circumstantial and compelling evidence.
Perhaps you would like to join me in calling for one?”
I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....
Originally Posted by Apricot:
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
And what an excellent opinion it is !
Originally Posted by Apricot:
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
You can't beat a good old conspiracy theory though can you, even if it is just an opinion.
I think what is really sad is that these days, people seem to have so little trust in anything and everything, preferring to believe that everyone is cheating the system for their own nefarious ends, and sometimes forgetting that TV is there for entertainment and education.
Sad times indeed.
Originally Posted by Apricot:
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
“I so agree with you indigomoon. IMO I don't believe Revel-Horwood & Phillips colluded but the two muppets at the end of the row Goodman & Tonioli (IMO!) appeared to be involved in the stitich up. Is it just coincidence that the only cast-iron method of ensuring Tom Chambers was in the dance-off was a 2-way tie of the women at the top. It wouldn't have taken much for them to work out the scores even before the dances took place.
Goodman is cunning though and covers his tracks - his 8 and Tonioli's 10 for Rachel were (IMO!) a smokescreen.
It can't be proved though - all supposition but, if I were their bosses at the BBC, I'd be having a quiet word - their actions resulted in the humiliation of our public service broadcaster on one of the biggest ratings nights of the year.
What really turned my stomach was seeing all four of the twonks standing and applauding the decision to put all three in the Final - pass the sick bucket Alice!
I think underlying all this is that Goodman & Tonioli want Rachel to win as they think she's the best - fair enough if that's their opinion but to (IMO)manipulate the leaderboard as it appeared last night is shameful.
Only my opinion....”
One which a fair few probably share.
