caused the all the problems on Saturday. If he hadn't been so tetchy (should have given at least a '9' IMHO) then the scores would not have been tied. 
Grumpy Len's '8' for Rachel's AS ........
1 of 5
he didnt give her AT an 8.
Do you mean the american smooth? If so yes that was weird no chance was that worth an 8 and Lisas quickstep 4 10s
Do you mean the american smooth? If so yes that was weird no chance was that worth an 8 and Lisas quickstep 4 10s
Not only did Rachel's American Smooth warrant a 9, but her Argentine Tango was at least a point better than Lisa's effort. For Len to believe they were of the same standard was absurd.
But he had already awarded the 10 to Lisa so couldn't go any higher for Rachel even if he wanted to.
I thought Rachel was ridiculously undermarked on Saturday. 
If there was dance that deserved 40 in this series it would be Rachel and Vincent argentine tango, I though I was watching two professional's dancing. It was remarkable.
Rachel and Vincent American Smooth was the second best dance of the night for me and I really loved it better than Lisa's Quickstep, which was great.
If there was dance that deserved 40 in this series it would be Rachel and Vincent argentine tango, I though I was watching two professional's dancing. It was remarkable.
Rachel and Vincent American Smooth was the second best dance of the night for me and I really loved it better than Lisa's Quickstep, which was great.
it only deserved an 8,
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..
Originally Posted by Shappy:
“But he had already awarded the 10 to Lisa so couldn't go any higher for Rachel even if he wanted to.”
“But he had already awarded the 10 to Lisa so couldn't go any higher for Rachel even if he wanted to.”
Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Now I'm no expert but I know what I like and I thought 8 was pretty fair for that AS. It was pretty dull (for me) and I much prefered their QS based AS! And you have to remember that Len is getting on a bit and like many men of his age he is a stickler for tradition and that song (Mandy) wasn't really an American Smooth song, much like when Cherie & James did theirs to Layla! Not saying Len is right, but he's not wrong either, he's just got his opinion.
Originally Posted by tomandaustin:
“it only deserved an 8,
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..”
“it only deserved an 8,
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..”
Were you watching the same show?
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
“The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
I hope not, they were lucky to get eights for that poor effort.
Originally Posted by CityofRoses:
“I hope not, they were lucky to get eights for that poor effort.”
“I hope not, they were lucky to get eights for that poor effort.”
My thoughts precisely - that Jive was very mediocre.
Originally Posted by tomandaustin:
“it only deserved an 8,
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..”
“it only deserved an 8,
it was boring and didnt have any hollywood 'perzas'
i was glad it didnt get any 10s..
shes been overmarked the whole way through this series (apart from her rumba which i admit was good..)
also her AT was wayy overmarked, you cannot compare that tango to Ramps's AT..
Lisas was better IMO
and then Toms, he was telling a story..”
Agreed completely
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
I think it's impossible to make too much of this point. It was such a blatantly ridiculous overmark...has he been taken to task on it yet by anybody in an interview anywhere?
It's simply unfair on the contestants who follow, to award a 10 for a dance with a mistake.
Last edited by taxi_driving : 16-12-2008 at 15:37
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
I agree with that.
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“My thoughts precisely - that Jive was very mediocre.”
“My thoughts precisely - that Jive was very mediocre.”
It was better than Tom's (the waterloo one) yet they got the same score. At least Lisa managed to dance in time to the beat!
Originally Posted by taxi_driving:
“I think it's impossible to make too little of this point. It was such a blatantly ridiculous overmark...has he been taken to task on it yet by anybody in an interview anywhere?
It's simply unfair on the contestants who follow, to award a 10 for a dance with a mistake.”
“I think it's impossible to make too little of this point. It was such a blatantly ridiculous overmark...has he been taken to task on it yet by anybody in an interview anywhere?
It's simply unfair on the contestants who follow, to award a 10 for a dance with a mistake.”
But he's done it lots of times this series. He also stated on Saturday that he thought Rachel's lacked a bit of passion but also gave it a ten, so all's fair in the end!
Originally Posted by taxi_driving:
“It's simply unfair on the contestants who follow, to award a 10 for a dance with a mistake.”
“It's simply unfair on the contestants who follow, to award a 10 for a dance with a mistake.”
Agreed. I'd have respected Len more if he'd given Lisa a 9 and then awarded the same score for Rachel if he truly believed they were equally good. But he left himself with nowhere to go and that artificially inflated Lisa's overall total.
Originally Posted by uptowngirl:
“It was better than Tom's (the waterloo one) yet they got the same score. At least Lisa managed to dance in time to the beat!”
“It was better than Tom's (the waterloo one) yet they got the same score. At least Lisa managed to dance in time to the beat!
”
Lisa's Jive was bounce-free, her kicks and flicks were not nearly sharp enough and her legs were loose and untidy throughout. She approached the dance with enthusiasm, I'll give her that.
Tom was better in all departments, but he ran out of puff towards the end. An 8 was adequate for his routine, a 7 would have sufficed for Lisa's.
Originally Posted by uptowngirl:
“But he's done it lots of times this series. He also stated on Saturday that he thought Rachel's lacked a bit of passion but also gave it a ten, so all's fair in the end!”
“But he's done it lots of times this series. He also stated on Saturday that he thought Rachel's lacked a bit of passion but also gave it a ten, so all's fair in the end!”
....which he then followed with an equally bizarre 8
Honestly, Rachel's AS was far and away my favourite of her ballrooms all series - I thought it was vastly superior to her waltz and foxtrot. It was so dreamy. I had to stop everything and watch it. It doesn't need to be "flashy" to absolutely enrapture me.
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
“Which begs the question, what was he thinking awarding a 10 for Lisa & Brendan's effort?
The cynic in me thinks Len was appeasing them somewhat after they threw such a strop about the marks they received last week.”
That is the biggest mystery of this series..or any other series for that matter.
My take is this...she was up first and Len was determined that Lisa would finish up the leader board. Even Bruno over-marked it with a 9. As it happened there was no need, they were probably afraid that Tom would produce a stunning jive that had the audience on their feet..he didnt.
Originally Posted by Sid_1979:
“Agreed. I'd have respected Len more if he'd given Lisa a 9 and then awarded the same score for Rachel if he truly believed they were equally good. But he left himself with nowhere to go and that artificially inflated Lisa's overall total.
Lisa's Jive was bounce-free, her kicks and flicks were not nearly sharp enough and her legs were loose and untidy throughout. She approached the dance with enthusiasm, I'll give her that.
Tom was better in all departments, but he ran out of puff towards the end. An 8 was adequate for his routine, a 7 would have sufficed for Lisa's.”
“Agreed. I'd have respected Len more if he'd given Lisa a 9 and then awarded the same score for Rachel if he truly believed they were equally good. But he left himself with nowhere to go and that artificially inflated Lisa's overall total.
Lisa's Jive was bounce-free, her kicks and flicks were not nearly sharp enough and her legs were loose and untidy throughout. She approached the dance with enthusiasm, I'll give her that.
Tom was better in all departments, but he ran out of puff towards the end. An 8 was adequate for his routine, a 7 would have sufficed for Lisa's.”
To be honest I couldn't give a toss about how tidy her legs were. I probably wouldn't be able to notice things like that anyway, having not been dance trained myself.
However, I can tell when someone is out of time and I think Tom was for most of that dance (which is unusual for him).
Sorry but I have to agree with Len here, I watched their AS several times over the weekend and Rachel managed to throw in one heel turn in the entire dance.
Now I know the foxtrot consists of more than just heel turns but seriously, she had hardly any recognisable foxtrot steps in that dance.
Craig was talking balony when he said it's an AS they can do what they like - if that were the case then why bother to base it on another dance at all - why is the AS not a dance in it's own right with it's own unique steps (eg like Tango, Quickstep etc etc).
Now I know the foxtrot consists of more than just heel turns but seriously, she had hardly any recognisable foxtrot steps in that dance.
Craig was talking balony when he said it's an AS they can do what they like - if that were the case then why bother to base it on another dance at all - why is the AS not a dance in it's own right with it's own unique steps (eg like Tango, Quickstep etc etc).
Originally Posted by uptowngirl:
“To be honest I couldn't give a toss about how tidy her legs were. I probably wouldn't be able to notice things like that anyway, having not been dance trained myself. However, I can tell when someone is out of time and I think Tom was for most of that dance (which is unusual for him).”
“To be honest I couldn't give a toss about how tidy her legs were. I probably wouldn't be able to notice things like that anyway, having not been dance trained myself.
However, I can tell when someone is out of time and I think Tom was for most of that dance (which is unusual for him).”
You can definitely notice that without dance training.
Originally Posted by uptowngirl:
“To be honest I couldn't give a toss about how tidy her legs were”
“To be honest I couldn't give a toss about how tidy her legs were”
Well the judges do and she should have been penalised more heavily because of it
1 of 5
